well i for one refuse to let some weasel dictate to me how i live my life and where i go to fish. yes i will take precautions by putting my gear up. but that is as far as i will go. what kind of life is it when you live in fear. thefts happen everywhere. so if thats the case i shouldn't live anywhere except some remote area because i have less of a chance to get ripped off. i will continue to go to Fork on occassion and enjoy myself while i'm there. the thefts at grapevine didn't stop me from going there.

With all the guys looking for work around here, this might be a good endevor. Hire out as night watchmen to fishermen. Just need 5 or so boat owners at one location to make it worth while.

You fellas talk about using deadly force against thieves, something to think about: Even if the law was on your side, all your ducks were in a row, you will spend at least 1-2 years in and out of court defending your right and defending your money when the lawsuits come up. For me, it's to easy to lock it up. If they steal it out from under me, insurance will help me recover. It's not worth my career to spend my life in court.

Who is going to sue you, and on what grounds? If the thief is caught redhanded breaking into your boat, or with your fishing gear in his hands, what are the grounds for the lawsuit? A court has to agree to hear the case without dismissing it immediately.

The thieves rely on people and the legal system doing nothing to stop them. Maybe if a couple of these dudes got ventilated by the .357 Magnum Security Service the rest of them wouldn't be so eager to break the locks and doors on someone's boat, or steal his gear.

Maybe what we need instead of fear of shyster lawyers filing civil suits on behalf of wounded thieves is better marksmanship. Dead men tell no tales...and they also don't file lawsuits.

I fish in Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Misouri, Georgia, New Mexico, Arizona, and of course Texas. I have never had any problems with thieft. I do carefully pick where I spend the night, and I don't leave equipment out for all to see, it only take a few minutes to lock it up. I pick motels where I can park in front of my room, I park at cafes where I can see my boat and truck, basically, I just don't invite trouble. I have never fished Fork, just didn't have the notion, but I have noticed over the last two years or so the thieft of equipment has become a major issue at Fork. I'm sure not all the guys suffering losses left their equipment out where it could be stolen with ease. So that indicates a deeper problem. I question the law enforcement and business in the area. If they want the problems to stop, it can be stopped. They just have to WANT TO. I'm just not going to go somewhere they don't want to stop it.

[QUOTE]Who is going to sue you, and on what grounds? If the thief is caught redhanded breaking into your boat, or with your fishing gear in his hands, what are the grounds for the lawsuit? A court has to agree to hear the case without dismissing it immediately.
QUOTE]

Who? The local District Attorney is going to sue you. If you kill someone, you WILL be taken to a Grand Jury, and the case will be heard. The very best odds in court are fifty/fifty. Are you willing to chance it with those odds? You WILL spend every cent you have and will ever have defending yourself.
Even if you wound him, you will have to defend yourself in a civil court.

TBill, if I shoot him, he isn't going to be the one going to court to testify against me. I agree with Razorback. If a few of these punks started showing up dead , the other will stop to think about what could happen. You can stop this problem, but it can't be done sitting back and doing nothing. I take my stuff out of my boatbut still cover it up at night. Now when I have to take my prop and spare tire off, hell its just as easy to leave the rods in the boat and leave the cover off and sit up all night just waitting.---Smitty

I agree it would help to just blow them away, but under current Texas law, the shooter will lose everything he has defending himself. Don't forget about the bleding hearts that run the court system, they just love prosecuting a gun owner. Now if Texas would move to the 21st century and pass a law such as the one Florida just passed maybe we could see some real reduction in crime instead of the sugar coated stats we get now. Florida has made it easier to protect all of your property with force, including deadly force.

And your comment on sitting back and doing nothin. What have you done in support of the Texas Concealed Handgun Law? I spend probably 20 to 30 hours a week writing representatives from every district urging support for gun laws. Do you even know what changes to Texas gun laws were proposed this session? Are you aware of the proposal to be able to carry a firearm in your vehicle without a CHL?

One more question...have you ever killed another human being?

If Billy Bob Methlab is able to testify against me after taking six .357 magnum rounds to the upper torso...more power to him.

And even if he does survive, what is he going to testify? "I was minding my own business, breaking the locks off Razorback's boat with my crowbar and stealing his rods and reels, when he just showed up out of nowhere and blowed me away..."

I won't be the one who causes this situation to occur. If I decided to break into Billy Bob's chop shop or meth lab to steal some of his stuff, I would go there with the expectation that I just might end up on the business end of a gun. Kinda goes with the profession, so to speak.

Well, I guess that speaks for the intelligence around here!

Well, my boat was locked up...nothing 'sitting' out in plain view...but obviously that is not enough. I guess I was fortunate to just have my rods/ reels stolen as opposed to all of my on-board electronics, tackle, prop, spare tire, etc.

Yes, something 'can' be done to stop or at least hamper the thieves. I believe TroyBoy posted some text straight out of the law books (he's a cop) on another post concerning thieves/ property and what rights we have. It sure seemed to me that any and all force could be used according to what I remember reading. Unfortunately, even if you avoid prosecution by the DA (criminal law), you are still open game for civil lawsuits (as TBill suggested). The thief doesn't have to be the one sueing you....his wife, kids, parents, grandparents, friends, etc can all file civil suits.

I'm understanding of the fact that marina owners may not get rich in that line of business, but I can't help but to think that profits will suffer significantly as the rampant thievery continues to get worse. Something needs to be done (besides putting a hand written cardboard sign in the marina window stating that they aren't responsible for stolen property...lol). As for us....well, the easy solution for protecting your gear is to remove and/or secure everything possible before you go to bed (secure means something beyond your on-board locks on your compartments). Oh yeah, catching them in the act would be a good deterent as well!

TBill, no I wasn't aware of them wanting to pass a law for you to be able to carry a handgun in your car without having a CHL. In answer to your last question, yes I have and for alot less reason than stealing my fishing tackle. They died because I was trying to bring peace to them. Funny uh?----Smitty

As a Christian, I must respond. Thieves are certainly deserving of punishment - both punishment from individual citizens and law enforcement. Their behavior is indefensible. But are fishing poles, tackle, depth finders, etc. worth a human life?

The original deadly force laws enacted in Texas were meant to protect the LIVES and LIVELIHOOD of Texans. 'Lives' implies self-defense. Livelihood is defined as those things which provide a means of 'subsistence' - i.e. things that put food on the table, clothes on your back, or a roof over your head. Think of a rancher loosing his herd to cattle rustlers in the 19th century to put these laws into perspective. In a modern example, these laws would more appropriately apply to those things required for a person to do his/her job such as tools, raw materials, computers, etc.

A recreational fisherman's fishing poles, boat propellers, and similar do not fit this criteria from a moral and ethical viewpoint. They may from a strict legal viewpoint, but not from a moral and ethical one. The fishing gear of a full time guide, professional tournament fisherman, or one who fishes to put meat on the table could be considered differently. But, the vast majority of us are recreational fisherman and do not rely on fishing for subsistence.

Sometimes legislation is vaguely written to enhance applicability, but I don't believe this gives us as fisherman carte blanche rights under the law to take matters into our own hands.

Let's rise above this and take our valuables into the hotel, put alarms on our boats, etc. If there is nothing to steal or no one willing to buy stolen property, the would-be thieves will leave us alone.

RB, wish I could see your side of this but I still say kill'em. Let God sort out who was right.---Smitty

rb7764, I appreciate your feelings, but we're not talking about a kid that one time steals a rod from a neighbor's garage. We're talking about repetitive thieves that prey off the rest of the world. You suggest we should take our time and money (alarms aren�t free) to protect what is already ours instead of correcting the problem itself. If we all do what you suggest then we all will end up in our own self imposed cells having to lock and alarm everything we own up and live behind bars. The only ones left with any freedom will be the thieves themselves. I respectfully disagree that WE need to change, not the thieves. I spent time and money to take the CHL course and buy a weapon to protect myself and my property. If MORE not LESS would do the same we would actually get back to where crime doesn�t pay!