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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: N.Walker]
#6344567
06/28/11 05:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,321
_86_
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,321 |
Cliff notes anyone?
Im not reading the whole thing.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: _86_]
#6345226
06/28/11 08:02 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88
Barrblues
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
Cliff note,
See opening vid news report posted by fish zombie.
Many different people have made post around, related to, and not related to this specific discourse but to the general topic of this hunt, hunter and very large gator.
Barrblues, me (newbie to this forum) has tried to say what this man did was wrong both legally and ethically. Once I thought the legal matter had been set aside I tried to ask on what moral or ethical grounds does this man have for his actions? For trying to do this, I have been called a holier than thou tree hugging wide eyed lying liberal that does a disservice to all sportsmen. Not in necessarily in that order, by one person, or without leaving some other slanders out. I have still not heard any foundation for Our right to do what we do. I also have openly admitted that I do not know the answer to this question.
Hirsch, (if I get this wrong let me know) Has generally stated that this man has not been accused of or tried for any wrong doing in a court of law, what ever ethical/moral justification the hunter stands on are his personally and therefor his actions and or ethical/moral standard should not be called into question on an open public forum because this would indicate to the general public that this man has done something wrong and therefor would make all sportsman look bad.
I am sure I have left somethings out here, but it is cliff notes. You may or may not pass the test at the end of class.
Last edited by Barrblues; 06/28/11 08:41 PM.
Nature is nature and it deserves some respect for when its gone so are we.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345294
06/28/11 08:27 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88
Barrblues
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
Hirsch,
This hunter made a public statement on the news in an interview of (apparently) his own free will. That he shot the gator in public water, wanted to do so because this gator could hunt him, and once doing so he has becume "BIGGER" (as in the Bob from Enzyte), and disrespected his wife(paraphrased). He made or allowed himself to be made a public figure. The damage to sportmens' public image has already been done by this guy. I for one do not want this guy "standing up" for me as a sportsman. I have the right to say so in an open forum. What better forum than a sportsmans' forum? If sportsmen think that he (the hunter) should be the sportsmans' poster child I feel that our future is bleak.
So once again I will ask "THE QUESTION" (PLEASE DISREGARD THE GATOR AND THE HUNTER)
What gives humans the right/justification to do what we do to life forms other than human?
IMO the answer "the law" is an elementary answer. Legal support does not make an action morally or ethically correct.
I DO NOT know the answer to this question and therefor asking for an open discussion.
Last edited by Barrblues; 06/28/11 08:58 PM.
Nature is nature and it deserves some respect for when its gone so are we.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345347
06/28/11 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,321
_86_
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,321 |
If you're really that passionate about saving alligators, maybe you should funnel your energy into an 8 page letter to TPWD instead of wasting your time arguing with kayakers who have no authority in the matter.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345351
06/28/11 08:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 888
The Trout Scout
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 888 |
Well one thing is for certain - the answer to the question as to who won the debate is very clear.
Votes are still unanimous in favor of hirsh.
hirsh's logic and wisdom has been outstanding.
barblues still hasn't put up valid answers to his own rhetorical questions.
Last edited by The Trout Scout; 06/28/11 08:44 PM.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: _86_]
#6345363
06/28/11 08:47 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88
Barrblues
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
Its really not just about this one alligator or saving alligators. I have said that the taking of any life should be for some reason other than your wall or ego.
Nature is nature and it deserves some respect for when its gone so are we.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: The Trout Scout]
#6345374
06/28/11 08:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 888
The Trout Scout
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 888 |
Hollywood vote is in and hirsh is still the unanimous winner:
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345396
06/28/11 08:55 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88
Barrblues
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
WOw can't a guy state his point and ask a question with out being declared a loser or anything else for that matter? I think when I jumped in here(this forum) I had the the expectation that I could swim. Not only have I found the waters depth to be too shallow to swim it is full if egotistical little schools of piranhas. I thought kayak guys could of least been a little more courteous. At least the rough fish/ Carp guys treat their catches with more respect.
Last edited by Barrblues; 06/28/11 08:56 PM.
Nature is nature and it deserves some respect for when its gone so are we.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345415
06/28/11 08:59 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88
Barrblues
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
Trout Scout You must have the answer. Right? Since you have declared a winner.
Nature is nature and it deserves some respect for when its gone so are we.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345454
06/28/11 09:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 406
AGSWON
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 406 |
This is Texas, where for the most part, the Law has always been "kill" or "be killed". Liberal views aren't popular in this State (Thank God!)
Interesting how much debate over an alligator this started.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: AGSWON]
#6345605
06/28/11 09:48 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88
Barrblues
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 88 |
Nature is nature and it deserves some respect for when its gone so are we.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: AGSWON]
#6345658
06/28/11 10:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 80
hirsch
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 80 |
Barrblues asks, "What gives humans the right/justification to do what we do to life forms other than human?"
If you are Jewish or Christian go to Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make men in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth the earth."
If you are not then I would say that as an omnivore man has always been a preditor and as such a member of the food chain, and of nature itself. As modern man and the only animals with anything approaching the ability to reason we have accepted a responsibility for the management of earth. Now we can argue details all day with answers varying. Some such as PETA will argue nature will take care of itself and we humans just need to stay out of the way. Whole books are written as to why that is morally bankrupt and unworkable. Others seek the industrializaton for man at any cost which carries its own inbalances. We as sportsmen fall in the middle.
Plenty of case studies shows that the animals need to be managed as a species, not individually, balancing populations, food and habitat available and human demands. Game cannot be stockpiled without starvation and disease occurring unless individuals are removed by preditors; animal and human. That may occur by use of rat traps, poison for grackles, starlings and sparrows in some areas or a combination of cougars, coyotes, wild dogs and man in the case of ungulates. While few modern men wish to remove all predators I think most will want them controlled as well.
Given time and research resources I could write books but will wrap it up hear. Religiously the Bible gives us that right. Otherwise we become self appointing as the top of the animal kingdom hierarchy and the only animal with the ability to reason. To argue otherwise is in my opinion like PETA, HSUS and others...morally bankrupt.
Last edited by hirsch; 06/28/11 10:11 PM.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: Barrblues]
#6345664
06/28/11 10:02 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 522
TheFishWhisperer
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 522 |
I'm going with barrblues. We have lost large populations of fish and game in texas due to poaching.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: hirsch]
#6345688
06/28/11 10:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,551
R E N
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,551 |
Barrblues asks, "What gives humans the right/justification to do what we do to life forms other than human?"
If you are Jewish or Christian go to Genesis 1:26, "And God said, Let us make men in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth the earth."
If you are not then I would say that as an omnivore man has always been a preditor and as such a member of the food chain, and of nature itself. As modern man and the only animals with anything approaching the ability to reason we have accepted a responsibility for the management of earth. Now we can argue details all day with answers varying. Some such as PETA will argue nature will take care of itself and we humans just need to stay out of the way. Whole books are written as to why that is morally bankrupt and unworkable. Others seek the industrializaton for man at any cost which carries its own inbalances. We as sportsmen fall in the middle.
Plenty of case studies shows that the animals need to be managed as a species, not individually, balancing populations, food and habitat available and human demands. Game cannot be stockpiled without starvation and disease occurring unless individuals are removed by preditors; animal and human. That may occur by use of rat traps, poison for grackles, starlings and sparrows in some areas or a combination of cougars, coyotes, wild dogs and man in the case of ungulates. While few modern men wish to remove all predators I think most will want them controlled as well.
Given time and research resources I could write books but will wrap it up hear. Religiously the Bible gives us that right. Otherwise we become self appointing as the top of the animal kingdom hierarchy and the only animal with the ability to reason. To argue otherwise is in my opinion like OETA, HSUS and others...morally bankrupt.
Last edited by The Return of Ren; 06/28/11 10:09 PM.
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Re: My 14 Ft. 900 lb. gator thread just went south!
[Re: hirsch]
#6345696
06/28/11 10:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 80
hirsch
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 80 |
BB, the rest of this afternoons writings you have submitted is simply a replay of our other discussions with you again cherry picking your particular favorite reports pretending they are the only real and true reports. I do believe I have addressed them all including the video and am not writing a third or fourth iteration of my answers.
I think I have made my standards clear enough while you have made it clear that you believe to have been blessed with the right to establish unwritten rules and judge your fellow sportsmen criticizing them in public. I see that as a form of lunacy, but it is yours. I will leave you to wallow in and rejoice in it.
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