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Dec 30th, 2023
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 Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: N8tivFish]
#6271395
06/07/11 03:20 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,643
TxJole
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,643 |
East Texas has a higher rainfall amount is why lakes are being built in that area. Its all lined out in the NTMWD and DWU water forecast.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: N8tivFish]
#6271696
06/07/11 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,319
Jimbo
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,319 |
Why dont we build more lakes? Lets get on the same page here. Lakes are not built; they are natural low lying areas that have been inundated over time. Reservoirs are built with the purpose of water supply, hydro-electric, flood control, or for recreational purposes.
Reservoirs significantly alter the hydrologic regime of riverine ecosystems. The much needed flood flows are forever changes and consequently the river is changed as well. So, you say who cares about the river anyways? There aint no largemouth bass or stripers in the river we can fish for. Our Texas Rivers sustain a diverse fish assemblage that is an indicator of ecosystem health. These little fishes that most people have no clue about serve as the canary in the coal mine, if you will.
Did you know that Texas is home to approximately 268 native fishes, of which 40% are of conservation concern in need of some level of protection??? Reservoir construction and the inundation of free-flowing rivers have played a big part in the threat to native fishes in Texas.
Back to the reservoirs. You do realize that these systems are initially stocked and continually stocked and undergo intense fisheries management to provide game fish opportunities, right? They are not self-sustaining sport fisheries in the sense that most anglers would like. Why do you think we have so many hatcheries and stocking programs to support these reservoirs? Rivers dont need this type of artificial life support. They are able to support the diverse aquatic life by self-sustaining means.
Someone above made a great argument. You want more reservoirs? Are you not aware two reservoirs will be constructed in Fannin County within the next 20 years? Lake Ralph Hall and Lower Bois d Arc Creek Reservoir are in the reservoir pipeline as we speak. Both are being built as water supply reservoirs for the DFW metro area. Why did they choose Fannin County? Maybe just maybe Fannin County is relatively poor and the Water Buffalos and their attorneys could easily persuade folks to move off of their land that has been in the family for generations. Sure, they can go find another place to live. Bottomland hardwoods are easily replaceable and cheap to purchase. Yeah right! Keep this in mind: Extinction is forever, Dams are not!
Excellent post! It's naive to think that it's just a matter of building a dam anywhere along a stream or river and all the problems just go away. They are in fact using aquifers to store the water underground rather than use surface reserviors that just end up losing large volumes of water to evaporation.
Just one more cast!
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: Jimbo]
#6273088
06/07/11 10:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,159
grout-scout
OP
TFF Guru
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OP
TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,159 |
I kinda enjoy going to lakes. I could make a arguement that they benefit nature as much as they can hurt it. But in the end people are more important than animals.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: grout-scout]
#6273639
06/08/11 01:47 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 351
zachary00
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 351 |
why should your/our enjoyment of resivores (thanks for the correction) take precidence over the needs of entire species of organisms. Some people enjoy crack. Guess its ok to take your needs/steal to support their enjoyment.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: zachary00]
#6274385
06/08/11 04:36 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 853
KG68
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 853 |
I can't speak for other counties or for the state of Texas for that matter but in the 60's and 70' the State of Texas voted to build numerous flood control structures in Mills County and many other counties in central Texas. I was lucky enough to have two of them on properties I owned one being 12 acres and the other 9 acres permanent if full to draw down levels. About that same time Lake OH Ivie was also proposed and started to develop plans for supplying water to several west Texas cities. As a result of these decisions the Colorado River and Pecan Bayou have become to put it lightly small creeks most of the year. They have also severely altered water flow downstream for the Highland Lakes which provides water resources for Austin and many other cities. I guess what I am saying is building a lake sounds like a great ideal but we have just so much average rainfall annually and during years of below average rainfall it can and will cause shortages in cities and communities that or dependent on these runoffs for their water. I have watched as large ponds downstream from these Government Flood Control Structures dry up during dry times some of which were my own so I speak from experience not ignorance.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: KG68]
#6274404
06/08/11 04:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,382
chuck44l
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,382 |
The bottom line is money and availability of water.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: zachary00]
#6274729
06/08/11 12:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,159
grout-scout
OP
TFF Guru
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OP
TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,159 |
why should your/our enjoyment of resivores (thanks for the correction) take precidence over the needs of entire species of organisms. Some people enjoy crack. Guess its ok to take your needs/steal to support their enjoyment. I'm guessing you don't live in an area that is void of lakes? Or where the wells are going dry due to the drought? A lake built to help supply drinking water can help take the strain off of the ground water aquafer and yes a person can even enjoy going to said lake. Trust me, if you live in North Texas you have no idea because you have a hundred lakes up there. Our area is in the second driest draught in history and the lakes still look pretty good considering the lack of rain. Enjoying the use of a lake is just another benefit of lakes, obvious you fish too. You can stop taking the question so seriously too because I have no authority on building lakes but I suppose the little peta organism members like you are the ones that stop lakes from being built and that's what I was trying to figure out. The way I see a lake is it is storing all the water that would have ended up wasted down stream, every lake I know of still has a dam gate that lets water run on out. 
Last edited by grout-scout; 06/08/11 12:45 PM.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: grout-scout]
#6274911
06/08/11 01:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 25
N8tivFish
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 25 |
Does anyone here enjoy saltwater fishing for redfish, speckled sea trout, or flounder? How about eating blue crabs or gulf shrimp? How about enjoy the Whooping Crane? You realize that the bay and estuary ecosystems that sustain these critters are dependent on freshwater inflows or some non-educated folks would refer to as "the water that would have ended up wasted downstream." Ask a coastal fisheries scientist if the bays and estuaries are dependent on freshwater. Without a healthy supply of freshwater, these areas can become too saline and inhospitable for the crabs, shrimp, and game fish we enjoy along the texas coast. The negative effects and impacts of dams and reservoirs has long been documented in scientific literature and is well established. Perhaps, some folks are just less knowledgeable in regards to these effects. I suggest a quick google search with the key words "reservoir effects on rivers." Here is a simple Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_reservoirs
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: grout-scout]
#6275095
06/08/11 02:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 378
Aggie_Angler
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 378 |
[quote=grout-scoutThe way I see a lake is it is storing all the water that would have ended up wasted down stream, every lake I know of still has a dam gate that lets water run on out. [/quote] Remember when people thought the world was flat... Well this comment is equivlent to that. The line of thought that water that goes downstream is wasted is so far from the truth, it's like we're living back in the time of Christopher Columbus! As the post above explains, river naturally flow into our bays and estuaries. Without those freshwater inflows to the bays and estuaries, they'll cease to function as they do and you will lose all your shrimp and crab, which would then result in loses of your game fish. Dams/reservoirs cause a lot of damage. We are now living with the effects of the damages today from the boom of dam construction in the 50's - 70's. Dams are not the solution. And remember, if they build a reservoir for water supply, recreation is a low secondary benefit. They don't care about the best water levels for bass fishing, or how many bass you are catching. It's a water supply project first. So don't expect a new reservoir to be the next Amistad, Falcon, Fork, or Choke in your backyard. And it is really messed up that most of the reservoirs for larger cities, private lands are seized (if they don't want to sell) by eminent domain. How is that American when then government can come take your land away from you to build a reservoir for people from another part of the state? If I had my ranch seized so someone can water their lawn, I'd be pissed...
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: grout-scout]
#6275152
06/08/11 02:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 378
Aggie_Angler
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 378 |
If any of y'all care to educate yourselves on the importance of flowing rivers, this website should provide you with more than enough information. Texas Instream Flow Program
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: Aggie_Angler]
#6275736
06/08/11 05:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130
374 Trigger
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130 |
I cant understand why we cant hold water in lakes in wet times till they are full then gauge flow upstream and release same amount constantly at gates keeping downriver flow.If no water is flowing above lake in dry times dont release at gates,it would same as if there was no lake.Same goes for lake useage if lakes low you still release upstream flow.The more lakes the less demand on one lakes useage.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: Aggie_Angler]
#6275744
06/08/11 05:12 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130
374 Trigger
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130 |
I cant understand why we cant hold water in lakes in wet times till they are full then gauge flow upstream and release same amount constantly at gates keeping downriver flow.If no water is flowing above lake in dry times dont release at gates,it would same as if there was no lake.Same goes for lake useage if lakes low you still release upstream flow.The more lakes the less demand on one lakes useage.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: 374 Trigger]
#6275807
06/08/11 05:25 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130
374 Trigger
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130 |
just suppose we eleminate all those dams built in the 60s Toledo,Rayburn,'ceder creek ,Livingson Tawak.,falcon,amistad,also the newer ones R.Chambers,r,Roberts,Fork,Sanlin,Then all they raised level on.Whitney,Palestine,ect. Texas is a dry place and without them half the population would have to move out and the the other half would be fightin for a drink of water and not flushin our pots.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: 374 Trigger]
#6276253
06/08/11 07:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130
374 Trigger
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,130 |
In 1956 when these lakes were being purposed Tarrant County population was 511,ooo.In 2010 it is 1,809,034.Just Tarrant so where other than lakes are water needs avalible.Not to mention electrical needs.
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Re: New lakes? Why not?
[Re: 374 Trigger]
#6276945
06/08/11 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 853
KG68
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 853 |
In 1956 when these lakes were being purposed Tarrant County population was 511,ooo.In 2010 it is 1,809,034.Just Tarrant so where other than lakes are water needs avalible.Not to mention electrical needs. To answer your question, rivers. Yes we get our drinking water from the Colorado river. It's pumped when water levels or available ten miles to a holding reservoir then a treatment plant. Many cities and towns do the same in this area. My family has owned river property since I was a kid and that's been longer than I like to think about and the river level and flow is a whisper now from what is was years ago. Dams, lakes, ponds, irrigation, people, etc are shutting off the flow. More lakes?? Not in this area. Mother Nature can't supply enough rainfall for what we got so please don't press her for more.
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