I hear you Guy, but I catch Crappie for several reasons. A big reason is I love to eat them. Think I will start that analysis of inches vs. weight of filets, my theory is the weight of the filets goes up at a faster rate than the inches. In other words, more efficient to keep the bigger fish for eating.

I often wonder if there are different strains of crappie just as there are different strains of largemouth i.e the florida strain of largemouth. To , me Cedar creek Black crappie look like a whole different fish than an black crappie ive caught elsewhere. They are almost round like a pie plate and thick, with a reddish belly. It doesnt seem like many studies have ever been done on crappie. Just like the striped nosed crappie, does anyone really difinitively know, based on science, why the stripe occurs? Some people say its a genetic defect, some think its a hybrid, some think ernest is marking them. lol. To me, the bigger crappie look more and more like largemouth , the bigger they get.

My thoughts on the ultra big crappie(3lb+) are that they are kinda like whitetail bucks that score over the BC min. of 160. They are a RARE animal that takes more than just a couple of conditions to grow them. I believe almost every lake has at least a few; some lakes more than others. But I think that monster crappie are like monster bucks, they live under a different set of rules, they are more loners than schoolers. We crappie fishermen tend to hunt for quanity more than quality and the fish we catch are like the younger bucks and does in the herd. We don't hunt for the Muy Grande.

As for myself, I have only caught 1 fish over 3lbs. But that was on a day at Cooper in early March several years before the drought. That was the highlight of my crappie fishing career, out of 50 fish my partner & I had, 23 were over 2lbs., nothing under 12". I had a 3.1 & a 2.99, and all came in less than 3' of water. Truly a magic day.

I have no thoughts that I will ever catch another 3lb crappie, but I don't care. I fish for the thump. That is why I don't fish tournaments. I don't have the mind set to just fish for a few big fish. I like em in bunches.

Truly big crappie are a rare and special fish and I think that you have to be very lucky and in the right place at the right time to hang one. And then; you have to get him in the net.

But heck, none of us has ever lost one under 3lbs. Right???

Steve

Rangerbobtx I think you hit the nail on the head for 95% of the crappie fishing.

The elusive 3 pound Crappie, what really kicks you in the gut is those Bass fisherman on big 300 HP 21 foot boats with wrapped graphics catch more than us Crappie fisherman.

Lends more to the thought they are solitary at that age.

And after larger bait.

I also think you guys hit the nail on the head with the idea that keeping the larger fish and releasing the smaller ones is effectively culling the larger fish from the gene pool leaving more little fish to reproduce. A fish with the genetics to become very large should also reach "keeper" size sooner and on average would therefore have less time to pass on its genetics than a smaller fish. I think it could be a good idea to change the limit to something like 1 fish over a certain length and do away with the minimum length requirement. If you really wanted to get serious about producing larger fish, you could even increase the number of smaller fish that can be kept.

I just got off a call to the North Texas biologist for the TP&W. Nice guy with a wealth of knowledge. Here are some of the main points of the conversation:
1) It takes the typical crappie in the typical lake 2-3 years to grow to 10" (depends on the amount of forage fish, water make-up, etc)
2) The average life expectancy for a crappie is 5-6 years before they die of old age (which he thinks has a GREAT DEAL to do with so few 3#+ fish)
3) Most all the North Texas lakes are high in nutrients, except Joe Pool and Benbrook (you've gotta have good water to have good fish)
4) He does not think that over-harvesting is a problem on North Texas lakes, and in fact, thinks that more small crappie should be taken out of our lakes
5) He stated that the angling pressure on North Texas lakes does little to affect the crappie population, as their studies have indicated that if angler mortality goes down, the natural mortality goes up (so if a lake is shut down for a period of time, it won't necessarily mean that there will be more fish to be caught)
6) The TP&W have not done any genetics study on crappie yet, but that it is in their long range planning
7) They have determined that the white crappie subspecie favors a turbid/dirtier water lake, where the black crappie subspecie favors a clearer/more vegetated lake
8) There are no plans to do something similar to the "Sharelunker" program
9) He believes that the water level fluctuation has a lot to do with not only the population of the crappie in a lake, but also the health and well being of the fish
10) And last but certainly not least, they have determined that larger crappie do definately get 'line shy'. He said that their studies indicate that the larger a crappie gets, the more aware of their surroundings that they are, and that "they notice that that shad has a string tied to it" (I don't think I could have said it better)

All in all, it was a VERY interesting conversation, and when I asked him if he would like to come to a Crappie Angler of Texas meeting and give us this type talk, he said he definately would. Stay tuned for this one!!!!!!!

So it appears that your theory about fluorocarbon has some merit after all!!

It would be cool if he'd come to a meeting and educate us.

Good info Guy! I too would like to see him speak at a meeting!

Thanks Guy.

That would be fantastic if TP&P would come to one of our meetings as a guest speaker.

Also noting if the life span of a crappie is only 5-6 years a "Share a Lunker Program" wouldn't add any benefit.

I've also been told Crappie are like mice, reproducing fast and everywhere in a lake, hard to get rid of.

Guys I work with that live in Michigan when I e-mail them crappie pictures they can't beleive the size of fish we hve in Texas. A 12" Crappie in Michigan is a Big em.

Just sent this Topic to the TPW, they some time get on this Forum and read these Topic.
Hope they will read this one.

Dennis

The crappie in Michigan are small compared to the crappie in Texas.

CW

Just got this in.!!

Hi Dennis,

I read the thread on TFF. The comments from Rafe Brock (TPWD Fort Worth) that the angler who talked to him on the phone shared made a lot of sense to me.

When we think about the potential for fish of any species to grow to larger (trophy?) sizes several factors have to be considered:

1. The fish has to have the genetic potential to reach a certain size. Fish continue to grow throughout their life, but each species probably has a maximum size it can reach. White crappie generally grow larger than black crappie.

2. The fish has to be able to live long enough to grow to that larger size. When we look at the age structure of a fish population (the number of fish of each age) the largest number of fish will be in the youngest age group. Each age in the population will contain less individuals than the age group before it. This is due to annual mortality (natural and fishing). Crappie reproduction and recruitement (the number of fish surviving to catchable size) can be variable from year to year due to a variety of reasons. Sometimes we'll see this evidenced in either strong or weak year classes of fish. Anglers may also notice it too in good years or not so good years for crappie.

3. There has to be adequate food (of the right kind) available to fish to grow to larger sizes. In Texas, this generally means threadfin shad. Both black and white crappie start out their lives eating invertebrates. At some point they will switch to eating fish. It's the crappies that have plenty of fish to eat for prey that will be the ones that have the potential to grow to larger sizes. If I ever see a lake that has lost all threadfin shad (winter-kill) I'll try to restock them to give crappie the best food source.

4. Finally, the waterbody has to have all the right characteristics to allow crappie to grow. It has to be big enough in size to keep competition down. It has to have sufficient primary productivity to support all portions of the food chain. It should have adequate predators to reduce the numbers of small crappie in the population.


Now, why don't we see anlgers catching a lot of crappie over 3 pounds? There was a point made by an angler in the forum that suggested that there just aren't that many crappie >3 lbs in a reservoir. I totally agree with that. Crappie grow pretty fast in most Texas reservoirs (I did some reading today that suggested the best crappie growth is in younger reservoirs). However, like Rafe said, they only live so long (5 - 8 years?).


The comments about changing regulations to produce larger fish need to keep in mind that in most cases, the management of a fishery to produce larger fish will sacrifice the number of fish that are available to catch. It comes down to a matter of yield (weight of harvested fish) - Yield may be the same regardless of whether an angler catches 20 one pound fish or 10 two pound fish (simply hypothetical).

So, what would I do if I wanted to have the chance to catch the larger crappie?

I would make sure the place I was fishing had the following characteristics:

1. Confirmed to contain white crappie. Your local TPWD Inland Fisheries Management office can help if an angler doesn't know for sure. Fisheries Management Biologist contact information can be found at: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/about/divisions/inland_fisheries/offices/index.phtml#biologist

2. Confirmed presence of threadfin shad. If you suspect your favorite crappie lake doesn't have threadfin shad, contact your local biologist to see what most recent surveys indicate.

3. Also, because white crappie tend to grow larger than black crappie, and white crappie tolerate more turbid water, I'd probably fish in the upper end of a reservoir where the water isn't as clear.

This topic raises a lot of good questions.

I hope this is helpful.

District Fisheries Biologist
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department