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Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: mickfly] #4833433 05/08/10 04:59 PM
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Brushiphile Offline
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I've picked up a couple old vintage reels off ebay, no I need to find a suitable rod.


brush-i-phile\ n : one who is enthusiastic about Brushy Creek

My therapist says she's happy I flyfish for the meditative qualities. Little does she know it's the cause of my PTSD.

Also touched by His noodly appendage.
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: RobotDoc] #4833926 05/08/10 09:03 PM
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George Glazener Offline
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Originally Posted By: RobotDoc
Yah, the video is probably a little out of place without some background.

Joe Robinson has recently written a small book called Piscatorial Absurdities about what he refers to as "radical ultralight spin fishing." It's basically his opportunity to openly talk about and share his obsession of super-ultralight spinning tackle.

Not to over simplify things or put too many words in Joe's mouth, but one of his central arguments is that the true art of the spinning cast has been lost in the past 50 years. Modern rods are so stiff and modern lures are so heavy that the typical caster doesn't actually use much of the flex of the rod in the cast. The cast's power is generated by accelerating the tip of the rod as much as possible. These casts are the exact opposite of that style of casting.

The rods that he's using in those videos are all made on 1-3wt fly rod blanks, so they're much more flexible than typical spinning rods made in the past 30 years (TFO is now making a dual-purpose spinning rod / 3wt fly rod...you just switch out the reel to go back and forth between the two styles). He uses 7x tippet for his line (roughly 2lb test) and lures that are less than 1/20th oz. The casts in the video use very little motion from the wrist or arm, but take advantage of the dynamics of the rod to propel the lure. My background is in engineering, so I nerd out a little bit on the dynamics of the whole thing; however the timing and feel of the cast also make it very comfortable to me as a fly caster.

Joe does a much better job of explaining all of this than I do. If you want to read more about the topic, I would suggest you grab a copy of his book from Sportsman's Finest in Austin (512-263-1888). He talks about the whole process, from equipment to casting technique to general motivation.

I should also probably also mention the website that they're putting together to go with the book.


I must confess - Im not a UL guy, let alone a UL spin cast guy .. BUT - I am an experimenter and the posts on UL spin/fly has been of interest to me.

As a result, TFO has provided me with their new Spin/fly rig.
I tossed it in the backyard with a 5 wf line and got a decent ~35-40 ft cast but the action is a little slow for me - I lean toward fast action rods.
It may be more 3-4 fly rod than 4-5 wt?

Below are specs for spin rod - $100.00 for a premium UL

Spin/Fly
Model Length Power Line Wt. Lure Wt. (oz.) Weight (oz.) Pcs. Action MSRP
TFG FWSF 601-2 6' UL 2-6 1/32 - 3/8 2.6 2 Mod Fast

Since I am presently grounded due to health problems I sent the spin/fly rig to Lake Murray with Robin Rhyne for test run and will anxiously await his report.








N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds.
Previously george 1

www.reelrecovery.org





Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: George Glazener] #4834511 05/09/10 01:00 AM
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Brushiphile Offline
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I should have kept that tadpole rod that Pearow built. Also just bought a mini sandblaster, which should make cleaning up old reels a bit easier.


brush-i-phile\ n : one who is enthusiastic about Brushy Creek

My therapist says she's happy I flyfish for the meditative qualities. Little does she know it's the cause of my PTSD.

Also touched by His noodly appendage.
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: George Glazener] #4834546 05/09/10 01:15 AM
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Grashpr9 Offline
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I like that grip design. I've been thinking about building a spin/fly combo like that. Hmmm... praps I should let TFO build one for me. hmmm...


"It's not rocket surgery!"
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...TFO Spin-Fly Update [Re: George Glazener] #4838864 05/10/10 01:23 PM
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rrhyne56 Offline
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The fly rod was great! I enjoy small water angling and this rod worked great in that domain. I was using a five WFF line, was up under Blackjack oaks so had to do side casts almost exclusively. I was able to control the loops and get a nice load and cast out the edges of the weeds. Action felt comfortable.

If one were in a situation where longer casts were the norm a four or even three weight line might work quite well.

Due to the thunderstorms and high winds I didn't get to fish near as much as I'd have wanted. But I did fish enough to know that I'd love one of these, especially in the two piece.


"have fun with this stuff"
in memory of Big Dale
RRhyne56, Flyfishing warden
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...TFO Spin-Fly Update [Re: rrhyne56] #4839695 05/10/10 04:20 PM
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RobotDoc Offline OP
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Wow, I can't imagine casting the TFO rod with a 5wt line on it. I have been fishing it as a 2wt, but I've tried it with both a 3 and a 4 as well. I was talking with Joe last week, and he prefers it as a 3 or 4. I find it interesting that the "proper" feel of a rod / line combo is so subjective.

Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...TFO Spin-Fly Update [Re: RobotDoc] #4839957 05/10/10 05:20 PM
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rrhyne56 Offline
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Yes it is oh so very subjective smile Of course I was not casting very far at all. Thirty feet max. So that made a big difference as well. The five WFF loaded up nicely in that short range.


"have fun with this stuff"
in memory of Big Dale
RRhyne56, Flyfishing warden
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...TFO Spin-Fly Update [Re: rrhyne56] #4863446 05/15/10 10:08 PM
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Brushiphile Offline
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Here's what I've been practicing on for the last week. I've learned a lot and the next will look a lot nicer. This one still hasn't been polished yet. It is too big for what I want to use it for, and the action isn't as smooth as I'd hoped, but I'll be working on that. It was easy to modify the bail. The spool is made of a different material from the body, possibly something more porous, as the paint is very hard to remove and it doesn't polish up like the rest of the reel.

Still looking for the right rod.



What I started with:





Last edited by Brushiphile; 05/15/10 10:10 PM.

brush-i-phile\ n : one who is enthusiastic about Brushy Creek

My therapist says she's happy I flyfish for the meditative qualities. Little does she know it's the cause of my PTSD.

Also touched by His noodly appendage.
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...TFO Spin-Fly Update [Re: Brushiphile] #4863558 05/15/10 10:50 PM
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Hey, brush.
Looks good, but you might want to consider a coat or 2 of clear over all of that bare aluminum. It won't hold up well without something on it.
The spool looks like it may be iron, instead of aluminum, and may be powdercoated. That may explain why it's so much harder to strip.
I think I still have my old Mitchell 300 around here somewhere. It's the first reel I ever bought for myself, a hundred years ago. I was probably about 14 at the time. That was the year I started mowing yards in the summers.

Kirk


"The cheese in the mousetrap is ALWAYS free"
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: RobotDoc] #4866254 05/16/10 09:01 PM
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Alex Argyros Offline
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Thanks for the video. It really helps to see the casts.

I have a question, though. I have Joe's book, and his description of the Fer de Lance cast sounds nothing like what we see in the video.

In the book, he says, "The first part involves a slight forward and downward motion of the arm (the rod is being held in the near horizontal position with the tip of the rod at eye level) . . . The second part of the cast proceeds immediately with a micro, super-fast snap of the wrist downward 1/2 inch, followed by a sudden stop."

In the video, Joe moves the rod upward before snapping the cast.

Can you help reconcile the text of this book with the video?

Thanks,
Alex

Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: Alex Argyros] #4870495 05/17/10 08:43 PM
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RobotDoc Offline OP
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So I don't really want to put words in Joe's mouth, but he was also somewhat surprised by the video. We had a long discussion about how his version of the Fer de Lance (FdL) cast is a pretty radical reinterpretation of Earnie St. Claire's original version of it, and as you pointed out the snap and FdL casts look very similar on the high speed.

I've done some analysis of the video, and the main difference is that in the FdL cast, Joe's wrist moves forward significantly during the casting motion. That in turn further loads the rod tip and increases the energy in the cast.

The short story is that yes, the video doesn't match quite up with the text of Joe's book, and might not be a true-to-style FdL cast. However the long story is that Joe was surprised by this (and admitted that in practice his FdL cast might be a little bit of a bastardization of the style...maybe stronger words than Joe would have used). The real story though is that from what Joe can find (and he has searched everywhere and in everything that has been written about the topic), this is the first time that anyone has captured high speed video of these casts, especially as they have been reinterpreted with modern rods and lines. There have been a lot of theories about what's actually happening in the dynamics of the rod / lure, but this is potentially the first time that that anyone has really analyzed it.

Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: RobotDoc] #4870769 05/17/10 09:41 PM
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Alex Argyros Offline
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Thanks for the reply. I think I get it now.

Just to make sure that I understand this properly (I'll ask Joe when I visit Sportsman's Finest this Friday), the main difference between the Snap and the Fer de Lance casts is that with the latter the wrist moves forward, further loading the rod, whereas in the former the wrist is immobile except for the "snap."

Is that right?

Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but... [Re: Alex Argyros] #4873656 05/18/10 03:38 PM
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RobotDoc Offline OP
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The way I interpret it, the forward movement of the wrist during the cast represents the main difference between the two styles.

Technically the order of actions should be a little different for the FdL as well since it's supposed to be initiated by a forward and downward movement at the wrist, but that's not quite what Joe is actually doing (as you see in the video).

Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...a belated report [Re: George Glazener] #4971447 06/13/10 01:50 PM
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rrhyne56 Offline
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Originally Posted By: George Glazener
Originally Posted By: RobotDoc
Yah, the video is probably a little out of place without some background.

Joe Robinson has recently written a small book called Piscatorial Absurdities about what he refers to as "radical ultralight spin fishing." It's basically his opportunity to openly talk about and share his obsession of super-ultralight spinning tackle.

Not to over simplify things or put too many words in Joe's mouth, but one of his central arguments is that the true art of the spinning cast has been lost in the past 50 years. Modern rods are so stiff and modern lures are so heavy that the typical caster doesn't actually use much of the flex of the rod in the cast. The cast's power is generated by accelerating the tip of the rod as much as possible. These casts are the exact opposite of that style of casting.

The rods that he's using in those videos are all made on 1-3wt fly rod blanks, so they're much more flexible than typical spinning rods made in the past 30 years (TFO is now making a dual-purpose spinning rod / 3wt fly rod...you just switch out the reel to go back and forth between the two styles). He uses 7x tippet for his line (roughly 2lb test) and lures that are less than 1/20th oz. The casts in the video use very little motion from the wrist or arm, but take advantage of the dynamics of the rod to propel the lure. My background is in engineering, so I nerd out a little bit on the dynamics of the whole thing; however the timing and feel of the cast also make it very comfortable to me as a fly caster.

Joe does a much better job of explaining all of this than I do. If you want to read more about the topic, I would suggest you grab a copy of his book from Sportsman's Finest in Austin (512-263-1888). He talks about the whole process, from equipment to casting technique to general motivation.

I should also probably also mention the website that they're putting together to go with the book.


I must confess - Im not a UL guy, let alone a UL spin cast guy .. BUT - I am an experimenter and the posts on UL spin/fly has been of interest to me.

As a result, TFO has provided me with their new Spin/fly rig.
I tossed it in the backyard with a 5 wf line and got a decent ~35-40 ft cast but the action is a little slow for me - I lean toward fast action rods.
It may be more 3-4 fly rod than 4-5 wt?

Below are specs for spin rod - $100.00 for a premium UL

Spin/Fly
Model Length Power Line Wt. Lure Wt. (oz.) Weight (oz.) Pcs. Action MSRP
TFG FWSF 601-2 6' UL 2-6 1/32 - 3/8 2.6 2 Mod Fast

Since I am presently grounded due to health problems I sent the spin/fly rig to Lake Murray with Robin Rhyne for test run and will anxiously await his report.







George asked me to field test the TFG FWSF 601-2 and I can state with certainty that it is a fine light tackle fly and spin rod. I've found that the 5WFF line does best duty on it and have been able to toss some big ugly Clousers on it with a spinning reel.

Even though it needs a 5 weight line to load and cast it still feels like and fishes like an ultralight rod.


"have fun with this stuff"
in memory of Big Dale
RRhyne56, Flyfishing warden
Re: I know it isn't fly fishing but...a belated report [Re: rrhyne56] #4977565 06/14/10 11:46 PM
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George Glazener Offline
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Thanks for the report Robin - your field tests are consistant with many other very positive opinions.
TFO has reported the little spin/cast rods are well received.
Y'all are going to make a UL fisherman out of me yet! grin

Thanks again for your help,


N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds.
Previously george 1

www.reelrecovery.org





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