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 Re: fishing knots
[Re: cowtown]
#3164558
02/26/09 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
I sat at my kitchen table yesterday and tied several Palomar and San Diego Jam knots. I believe I tied the knots correctly and I did wet each knot before tightening. In all of my tests the Palomar was much stronger than the SD Jam knot - which surprised me. The tests were done with Vanish flourocarbon 12# line - which I no longer use because I had constant breakoffs (and the breakoffs did happen with different spools of Vanish bought at different times at different places). I now use 8-12# P-Line copoly, and it has not failed me yet.
Anyway - guess I'll stay with the Palomar.
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3171161
02/27/09 09:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Fish-N-Fool Lures
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32 |
CWR64 said
"I sat at my kitchen table yesterday and tied several Palomar and San Diego Jam knots. I believe I tied the knots correctly and I did wet each knot before tightening. In all of my tests the Palomar was much stronger than the SD Jam knot - which surprised me. The tests were done with Vanish flourocarbon 12# line - which I no longer use because I had constant breakoffs (and the breakoffs did happen with different spools of Vanish bought at different times at different places). I now use 8-12# P-Line copoly, and it has not failed me yet.
Anyway - guess I'll stay with the Palomar."
Hi all Fish-N-Fool here, the guy that the Fish-N-Fool Knot was named for. Next time try tying your Palomar up against the Fish-N-Fool Knot. I think you will be shocked again when you find out that the Fish-N-Fool Knot is a much better knot with Fluoro and Braid as well and is better with Mono also. It tested about a pound higher on average with all knots. If you didn't get to watch the "Knot Wars" segment on the North American Fisherman TV Show where the Fish-N-Fool Knot handedly beat the Palomar for the "Knot Wars" Grand Championship. You may have not learned how to tie the Fish-N-Fool Knot. You can see a video animation from the "Knot Wars" segment on how to tie it here. Click Fish-N-Fool Knot on the lower left of the page. Here is a quick reference on how to tie it also. If you have any questions about the Fish-N-Fool Knot just ask. 
Please note that when you tie the Fish-N-Fool Knot you are holding and looking at it from the loop side. If you are tying on a worm hook hold the hook in your right pinky while tying and hold the loop with your two middle fingers makes it fast and simple to tie.
Last edited by Fish-N-Fool Lures; 02/28/09 06:44 PM. Reason: typo
Inventor of the Fish-N-Fool knot Wanna Catch Fish? Don't be a Fool! Tie on a Fish-N-Fool lure & get bit. Fish-N-Fool Lures www.fnflures.com
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: Fish-N-Fool Lures]
#3173348
02/28/09 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
PM sent to Fish-N-Fool.
What I asked him is how to hold the hook and line while doing the tie. I cannot hold the worm hook in my pinky and not have the finger next to the pinky move right along with the pinky - so therefore I don't have both middle fingers free to work on holding the loop or doing the tie. The little video didn't help at all because it does not show his hands holding the hook/line & doing the tie. If any of you have a better explanation of how to actually tie this knot quickly please let me know. I did tie it (very slowly) with only one turn thru the hook-eye and it seemed pretty strong, so if I can learn to tie it quickly it might be a winner.
Last edited by CWR64; 02/28/09 03:39 PM. Reason: add info
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3174033
02/28/09 06:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Fish-N-Fool Lures
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32 |
First off that's not me. LOL That's Steve Pennaz from the N. American Fisherman TV show. I'm way better looking then him! They do not do a good job of showing how to hold the knot on the show, only a animated version. I may try to do a Video of me tying the knot so you can see it tied. I do tie it just like I said though holding the hook with my right pinky and ring finger. The hook lays in your palm side, the point is on the fingernail side. You loop the tag end by going up along the main line and back to the hook eye with the tag end pointing away from the hook again and catch it with your two middle fingers (left and right). You have your thumbs and index fingers free to tie the knot with wrapping the line around the two main lines and through the loop. Five to seven times around, then holding the hook pull on the tag end and form a loose knot up the main line from the hook eye pull on the main line to slide the knot down to the hook. Pull hard on the tag end first then on the main line to seat the knot.
If you are tying the Fish-N-Fool knot with braid you do not need to wet the knot, but with Fluoro or Mono you MUST wet it . I hold the knot in my mouth as I pull the tag end makes it quick and simple.
Tnx FNF
Last edited by Fish-N-Fool Lures; 02/28/09 07:19 PM. Reason: typo
Inventor of the Fish-N-Fool knot Wanna Catch Fish? Don't be a Fool! Tie on a Fish-N-Fool lure & get bit. Fish-N-Fool Lures www.fnflures.com
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: Fish-N-Fool Lures]
#3176996
03/01/09 06:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
"with the tag end pointing away from the hook again and catch it with your two middle fingers (left and right). You have your thumbs and index fingers free to tie the knot with wrapping the line around the two main lines and through the loop"
I have tried the knot again and simply cannot follow the instructions as written above. If you can point me to a video that shows a closeup of the hands tieing the knot it would really help. Don't need to see the whole process - just the part as written above. Even 2 good snapshots of the middle of the process would help. Maybe my hands and fingers are just not dextrous enough to tie it quickly.
A few years ago I watched my nephew freehand tie a Blood Knot in seconds while we were bouncing in his boat across a very choppy St. Lawrence river. I was amazed. Once you "get it" the speed comes quickly - for some of us.
Just now my wife (who is better at knot tieing than I am) tried to follow the instructions to tie the knot. She was able to get it tied, but was also not able to follow your instructions exactly to get it tied.
Last edited by CWR64; 03/01/09 06:33 PM. Reason: add more
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3180768
03/02/09 06:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Fish-N-Fool Lures
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32 |
OK CWR64;
Just for you I made a short video on how to Hold and tie the Fish-N-Fool Knot. This should clear up any misunderstandings you might have about how the knot is held. Part 1 is in a large scale with a monster hook and a small rope. Part 2 shows a close up of a real hook and line being tied.
Part1  Part2
Inventor of the Fish-N-Fool knot Wanna Catch Fish? Don't be a Fool! Tie on a Fish-N-Fool lure & get bit. Fish-N-Fool Lures www.fnflures.com
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: Fish-N-Fool Lures]
#3183707
03/03/09 09:10 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Fish-N-Fool Lures
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32 |
So Did this help you figure out how to hold and tie the knot??
Inventor of the Fish-N-Fool knot Wanna Catch Fish? Don't be a Fool! Tie on a Fish-N-Fool lure & get bit. Fish-N-Fool Lures www.fnflures.com
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: Fish-N-Fool Lures]
#3184127
03/03/09 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
I sent you a PM that all is well. And yes, the new videos made all the difference in that I can see what I was missing. I will give the knot a go this morning and post my result. THANK YOU!
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3185192
03/03/09 06:20 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
OK.
I tied it (once, so far) with 2 passes thru the hookeye and tested it by pulling with my 2 hands. It did appear to be stronger than the Palomar, and it did not require wasting as much line as the Palomar. I need to practice doing the tie until my hands/fingers get the idea of how to more quickly form and hold on to that loop. Once I get the knack of it I'm sure I will have found my new knot. Thanks!
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3194456
03/05/09 03:54 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
OK
I've now learned to tie this knot at a reasonable speed. The whole key to speed is forming the loop around the middle finger of the right hand, and then the middle finger of the left hand, after which you simply use the thumbs and 1st fingers of both hands to spin the tag end around the side of the loop that has (by now) 2 strands of line (with the spinning tag end making the 3rd strand as you spin it). Ya - you said all that but until I viewed your last video I just did not get it.
I've now tied the knot many times while sitting here at my home office desk, and each time I tied it I also pull-tested the strength of the knot. In every test the knot was stronger than my previous favorite (Palomar). Each tie "wasted" about 2-4 inches of line - which is no worse than and in most cases less than the amount of line "wasted" with the Palomar.
All these tests were done from a spool of 12# Berkley Vanish. I could not believe the Vanish did not break at the knot as it was doing with other knots, including the Palomar. Using Vanish, several times the line failed at the knot during the hookset. I lost a number of good fish last year on different spools of Vanish, and I have removed it from all my reels. While fishing last year I several times pull-tested knots (including Palomar) that I knew I had properly tied & wetted, and they broke at way less than the pound test of the Vanish I was using. So I switched to P-Line copoly & braid and the knot failure problem went away. Considering how well the Vanish did with the Fish-N-Fool knot, maybe I'll give Vanish another try. Well maybe not.
I have my new knot - the Fish-N-Fool knot. THANK YOU!!
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3207451
03/09/09 05:48 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Fish-N-Fool Lures
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32 |
OK
I've now learned to tie this knot at a reasonable speed. The whole key to speed is forming the loop around the middle finger of the right hand, and then the middle finger of the left hand, after which you simply use the thumbs and 1st fingers of both hands to spin the tag end around the side of the loop that has (by now) 2 strands of line (with the spinning tag end making the 3rd strand as you spin it). Ya - you said all that but until I viewed your last video I just did not get it.
I've now tied the knot many times while sitting here at my home office desk, and each time I tied it I also pull-tested the strength of the knot. In every test the knot was stronger than my previous favorite (Palomar). Each tie "wasted" about 2-4 inches of line - which is no worse than and in most cases less than the amount of line "wasted" with the Palomar.
All these tests were done from a spool of 12# Berkley Vanish. I could not believe the Vanish did not break at the knot as it was doing with other knots, including the Palomar. Using Vanish, several times the line failed at the knot during the hookset. I lost a number of good fish last year on different spools of Vanish, and I have removed it from all my reels. While fishing last year I several times pull-tested knots (including Palomar) that I knew I had properly tied & wetted, and they broke at way less than the pound test of the Vanish I was using. So I switched to P-Line copoly & braid and the knot failure problem went away. Considering how well the Vanish did with the Fish-N-Fool knot, maybe I'll give Vanish another try. Well maybe not.
I have my new knot - the Fish-N-Fool knot. THANK YOU!! Thanks CWR64 glad I could help you figure out just how ez the Fish-N-Fool knot can be to tie. That's why I have been posting about how to tie this knot for the past 4 years. I did a seminar at The Great Western Sport Fishing show today on how to tie the knot and was surprised just how many had come to the show just to learn to tie my knot. It went over very well and I showed my baits and a bit on how to rig and fish them and handed out some as door prizes. Got a lot of comments and compliments about all the interest this has generated. But I'm just happy people like the knot and will use it, hopefully to tie on one of my baits:)
Last edited by Fish-N-Fool Lures; 03/09/09 04:25 PM.
Inventor of the Fish-N-Fool knot Wanna Catch Fish? Don't be a Fool! Tie on a Fish-N-Fool lure & get bit. Fish-N-Fool Lures www.fnflures.com
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: Fish-N-Fool Lures]
#3314280
04/05/09 08:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32
Fish-N-Fool Lures
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 32 |
Ok guys;
I gotta ask how many of you have learned to tie The Fish-N-Fool knot? If you are using it, what do you think of it now after having used it for a month or so? Ease of tying now that you are used to it? Any problems with it so far? Do you think it is just a fad? or will it still be used 20 years from now?
Inventor of the Fish-N-Fool knot Wanna Catch Fish? Don't be a Fool! Tie on a Fish-N-Fool lure & get bit. Fish-N-Fool Lures www.fnflures.com
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: Fish-N-Fool Lures]
#3317815
04/06/09 02:48 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173
CWR64
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 173 |
OK - I've been using it regularly now and have yet to have a failure at the knot using 12# P-Line - which I use as a leader to braid. On one reel I don't yet have braid - just the P-Line copoly - and the Fish-N-Fool knot has been perfect.
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Re: fishing knots
[Re: CWR64]
#3317928
04/06/09 03:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 710
headsRtails
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 710 |
Just been reading all this and watching the video. Think ill give the knot a try.
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