It could be broken down to a choice of havind 20 five pound catfish or 1 100 pound gar, take your pick. As far as the Trinity river goes a lot of it has been fully channelized here locally and the wild part of it requires almost a wilderness trek to get to as it runs from the Handley-Ederville road area to Loop 12. Put out a little effort and you will see a lot of your beloved gar you just have to have a small boat or a canoe and take a couple of days camping out in a ratrher inhospitable area and you will see thae delusion clearly you are under. Another nearby trek would be fron I20 to 85 to 34 on down the river. Set your mind at ease and do some real river rambling. No amount of regulation is ever going to make the parks along the river in Fort Worth what the area was 30 years ago.

"Not real sure on what all of this means but here goes........

In one of my local catfishin holes, the aligator gar have just about taken over! I used to be able to catcha good mess of 2 to 5 lb cats in a couple of hours. But just recently the river has backed up into the slough where I'm fishin and has become almost infested with LARGE ALIGATOR GAR!! I somewhat stumbled upon the enjoyment of fighting these rascals! I had a shad on a catfish hook and managed to get a good hookset on one of these monsters. I thought that I had laid into a 30 to 50 pound cat but no, it was about a 6' long GAR. I fought with it for about 10 minutes and then it cut my line. I gave it some thought and a couple of buddies and I went back with the intent of catching them and this is what we came up with.....

ALL OF THESE WERE APPROXIMATELY 5' TO 6'!!! I'M GUESSING IN THE 80-100LB RANGE. AND THEY WERE ALL CAUGHT ON ROD AND REEL!
Granted, I am not a proponent of wasting game but what I a person to do when this is just about all that they can catch in a place that used to be a great catfishin hole? I personally don't see it as wasting, more as managing for a sustainable catfish population."

Kevin Prince,

I mean no dis-respect to you but this is the EXACT mindset of an angler un-educated about the Alligator Gar. You see a few of them, or dozens of them and you think the best thing to do is "manage a catfish hole" and kill a few of them. What has more than likely happened is because of the high rains the Alligator Gar have been tricked into spawning again and have begun a migration to the shores to spawn. A "River backed into a slough" is the EXACT location where an Alligator Gar will attempt to spawn. Ofcourse you will see quite a few of them together. This is the EXACT same thing you would witness with Bass, Catfish, Carp and other fish when they spawn. (Have you ever seen a Carp spawn? 100's or 1000's of fish ALL together in about 1-2ft of water. Amazing....)

Thank you for posting your comments as I am hoping others will learn from it.

It's not that I'm un-educated, it's just that I'd rather catch more catfish AND those gar are quite a challenge. The guy that has the equipment that we used to catch the gar catches gar like this all year long along the river, rain or no rain. In the particular location that I caught these in, once the river goes back down, the water level in this slough will remail quite high and these gar cannot get back into the river due to low water dams in the slough. These fish WILL impact the number of catfish in this particular location. I understand that this is probably a site specific instance and the scales of our argument aren't quite even, but I "assume" that you are suggesting that we release all these fish?

Hi Kevin,

Based on the data I've read, Alligator Gar do not actively feed on catfish. But in your situation where it appears you are fishing a slough where fish cannot re-enter the river until it floods again, at some point nature will takes it's own course.

Will Alligator Gar eat catfish if they can, sure! Will Flatheads eat channel and bullheads? Sure! A big ol bass will also eat those smaller pan fry catfish. While it's easy to assume the biggest fish around will eat all the other big fish, the Alligator Gar's main diet is shad followed by carp, buffalo and then anything it can easily grab. But then again, we're talking about a situation where the fish are basically cut off from the river, so who knows what the fish are eating. It would be educational to harvest one of those Alligator Gar and take a look inside it's belly to see what it's been eating.

Since you are looking for tablefare, the next time you catch one of those 50-80lb Alligator Gar, instead of leaving it on the bank to die, why not harvest it, clean it and eat it? I have never eaten an Alligator Gar but everything I've read on it says the meat is boneless, white, and taste great grilled or fried. Here's a link to learn more about cleaning these fish:

http://www.prismnet.com/~timmckee/gar2.htm

Release all the fish? Eat as many as you like, but I would ask that if you do not plan on harvesting the fish, to at least throw them back. And if you do decide to start harvesting the fish, please throw back any fish 100lbs or more.

dmunsie
You've never even eaten gar before ??? Why you shameless gar hugger you !!! Even the dang tree huggers up in Washington and Oregon who put nephews of mine out of work, and shut down whole towns for that matter, burned wood to keep warm when they were out protesting the cutting of supposedly "old growth" forests !!!
David C.

I have lots of friends that are bow hunters, so i am not unfamiliar with it, but i don't choose to do it. I feel it is more sporting to catch a large gar via rod and reel. I dont know if they will ever be classified as a game species or not, but they do offer a great fight on rod and reel and are a true predator. Like the sturgeon if they are pressured too much they will become endangered and we will lose a valuable fighting fish.

Studies have not been conducted to truely gauge the number of gar, mainly because they are considered a rough or trash fish by most they studies have never been done. There was a video released a while back by pbs and tpwd that did go into some depth about the life cycle and reproduction of the alligator gar. If i can find the link i will post it, but it offerred some great insight into the estimated number of large alligator gar and there are not as many as people think according to the research involved while making this video. I will try and find that site and post it for everyone to see.

"You've never even eaten gar before ??? Why you shameless gar hugger you !!!"

Longnose Gar, YES! But I will never eat an Alligator Gar knowing what I have learned about the species. Plus, Longnose Gar seem to be everywhere and are much easier to catch.

Re: Alligator Gar Research Video

http://www.earthwave.org/gar.htm

I have never seen the video, but now plan to order it and have a look.

dmunsie,
We've crossed paths before albeit typically on less than amicable terms. However, there are several of us who agree a self-imposed limit of 1 gator gar a day would benefit the species. In Oklahoma, the spoonbill has a 1 per person, per day limit. You can catch/snag as many as you would like with barbless hooks, but you're only allowed to harvest one, regardless of size. It's worked well so far. The spoonbill population has grown tremendously.

The idea of putting a size limit on these fish is what concerns us the most. What is someone keeps a fish they believe is over 100lbs, and according to their scales, it is. But along comes the Game Warden and wants to weigh your fish using "official scales" only to find out, it weigh's in the 90's. What then?

The best idea would to create a limit of 1 per day, per person regardless of size. As an avid bowfisherman, I would be much less apt to take a smaller one knowing the "monster" could be just around the corner. But I've only taken one gator gar in my 17-18 years of bowfishing.

I signed the petition. I have also never seen an Aligator Gar in my lifetime of fishing. I have however seen thousands of long nose Gar. Someone told me that Lewisville lake is full of Aligator Gar which would make sense as the Trinity river feeds this lake. If so, there could be some monsters in that large lake. How come we never hear of large Aligator Gar being caught from reservoirs? It seems they are always in rivers. Wouldn't they be able to live better in a reservoir?

I saw Roland Martin catch one once and they pulled it on the boat and the thing actually hissed at them just like an Aligator. I would not want something like that in my Bass boat. But I would be willing to fish for them with someone who knows what they are doing. So if anyone wants to fish for them someday and wouldn't mind taking me along I would be interested. Would I need to buy surf rods? I am sure my little Bass rods wouldn't be able to handle that or would it?

Thanks.

I would with Keith. I would love to catch and release some but it is hard finding out where they are or how to get the unhooked once you get one lol

Jumper,

Strangley enough I've had several emails similar to your question, I just typed up a response to one of them and I'll just include the correspondance here:

----------------------

"Dave

I'm from Wisconsin. I travel to Tx and other states doing quite a bit of bowfishing, as do many others out there. If I am there for a week, and had never shot one, I would probably shoot the first gator gar that I could as a personal accomplishment. After that, I would trophy hunt for a larger one, as my time permitted. That is the way that many of the bowfishermen are. My time is short, so if I shoot one the next morning that is over 100#, you want me to
be done. I am there for the rest of the week, and my main goal is to shoot the largest gar that I can. But now I can't even go after any more. Doesn't hardly seem right. How many other fish give you a one fish/year limit?"

-------------------------

Hi,

Thank you for your reply. But my first reaction is "wow, this guys shoots a 100lb fish on a fishing trip and he still isn't satisfied?"

"so if I shoot one the next morning that is over 100#, you want me to be done. I am there for the rest of the week, and my main goal is to shoot the largest gar that I can. But now I can't even go after any more. Doesn't hardly seem right. How many other fish give you a one fish/year limit?"

The Bow Fisherman I have spoke with the past few months approach their Alligator Gar fishing as a "trophy hunting" experience. They are only trying to shoot a fish that would be bigger than their current best. These Bow Fisherman would simply ignore the smaller 100lb class of fish and only attempt to shoot a new personal best.

So I would say to you, if you've already shot a 100lb class Gar last year, why would you want to kill a resource that may grow into a fish that might give you the fish of a lifetime later on? (And for those that may never have shot a gar before, a 100lb fish is a great starting point for next years goals.)

Think of the impact on trophy specimen hunters like yourself over a period of time, If others actually thought to themselves "wait, my best is a 150lb Gar, this one looks a little smaller, I'm going to wait for a bigger fish." The end result would be larger average fish for all who decide to harvest their yearly fish over 100lbs, and give trophy hunters like yourself a better chance for a fish of a lifetime.

Like other trophy hunters that travel to exotic locations to shoot other animals, species, etc, sometimes you make the catch of your life othertimes you miss out. But usually you don't shoot something just because you can.

Do you think a week hunting for Alligator Gar, where you would probably shoot several fish in the 50-80lb class, plus coming home with a fish over 100lbs is a bad trip?

We have to respect the Alligator Gar more if we all want the chance to have the fish of a lifetime..in the future.

Thank you for your comments.

- Dave

Come on.....there are limits on MOST things you hunt. You can only take so many deer a season. Elk and Moose you have to have a lottery just to get a CHANCE to shoot one. It all depends on what the population will support. Just like fishing has bag limits based on what the population will support. When you start getting into hunting fish that is 100+ pounds that is not a quickly renewable resource yearly limits start to make sense. It will be another 70+ YEARS for that fish to be replaced !

I don't agree with bow fishing in general. I can't see the point in KILLING an animal I have no intention of using for food. ( I know there are exceptions and some people will eat all the carp and buffalo and gar they shoot but that is the exception not the rule ) But at least Carp, Buffalo, Drum, Longnose Gar, are plentiful and could probably stand a little selective thinning. That just does not appear to be the case with Alligator Gar.

If you want to protect the Aligator Gar then you need to give it protected status - like the Bald Eagle or most owls. Making it a Game Fish will do just that - make it a Game Fish. By the way, Comercial netting of Gar is common on Big Sam. Gar is a delicay in many parts of Lousiana.

If we act now, instead of waiting until they are almost wiped out, by placing limits instead of allowing unconditional take, we could possibly avoid having it listed as endangered, protected, threatened, etc. Right now it's considered a trash (rough) fish. As such, a single person can kill any number of them at any time, any size. The idea would be to change that to a number that can be shown to balance the take with the renewal of the species. I would say that two per day, plus one over 100 lbs. per season would be a good place to start. Then with some population studies over a few years those limits could be revised to allow either more or less, depending on the results.
Red Drum comes immediately to mind, I am sure that there are more out there.

Say dmunsie, I went to school with a Dave Munsie in Garland (SGHS). Don't suppose you are him by any chance.