I gladly signed...saw all the trash last week. There is not a whole lot of fishable water anyway when you get more than just a few anglers. C & R makes perfect sense to me for a place like LLELA.

I use to fish a place like that were trash was everywhere. They eventually shut the place down because of us Bankfisherman. When they did decide to open it back up the price to get in was way high.I felt like that kept alot of people from fishing there. So maybe instead of three dolloars to get in . How bout 10 dolloars to get in . I'll even bring trashcans out there to to setup.

Not to derail this Bret, but are they allowing camping there again? When I was there over the summer, they weren't allowing overnight stays becaue the water was so high.

It's unfortunate, but because spillway areas offer such good fishing opportunities, they also bring the low-lifes out of the shadows to get as many fish as they can by any means necessary. Denison, Ray Roberts and Lavon are all exactly the same way. You could just keep a 4 oz weight rigged on one pole and when you see someone f'in up, just "accidently" sling it at them.

In my opinion, making the entire area catch and release wouldn't really deter people who are going to break the law anyway. Yeah, a few might get caught, but more than anything else, it would only punish those who do fish legally and who wanted to take a few home for supper.

Would it be possible some week ends to have a group of volunteers stationed at the entrance handling out trash bags and urge people to fill the bag and deposit it in the dumpster before the leave the area? Kinda oc charge them a bag of trash for the privilage of sishing there.

Sure try it.

They'll use the bags to carry out undersize white bass. That is unless they just throw it on the ground.

The people in question here are not anglers, not TFFers. They are lowlife poachers and show how much respect they have for the area by throwing their trash on the ground.

I may sound like a broken record, but spend a weekend out there. Come out with us on organized pickups.

It will all become very clear.

Sadly, Bret has it exactly right.

The people who fish in that park are one of two types...Anglers, such as those on TFF...and Poachers, who want to literally fill a cooler with as many fish, legal or not, as possible.

They don't care about laws, at all. And there are MANY of them.

But the idea is, if they KNOW that they can't legally keep ANYTHING, they will stop trying, and stop showing up, because it will be that much easier for the warden to write tickets.

We've called him out there many times, and seen a few tickets written for undersized fish and for too many fish, and a few tickets written for no fishing license at all.

But what usually happens is, as soon as the warden pulls in...a whole line of people dump their coolers, or buckets, back into the water, get in their cars and drive off before the wardens are even out of their truck.

It's digusting.

As far as organized clean-ups go...Those are a GREAT idea...

But...We already did that! And almost no one even bothered to show up.

For 1 MONTH, we posted every few days about having a "Big Clean Up At Llela" in this section, and others...many people read the thread, and we continued to post about it for a month to make sure people knew it was going on...

Guess how many people we had...

6.

Maybe if we have them more often, more people will actually take the time to try and help out one of the places they fish.

Or maybe not.

If the park is being run by a private organization then how about setting it up for "members" only? To be a member you have to fill out a simple form, present a valid fishing license, pay a nominal fee, and each time you visit you pay the $3 usage fee.

Anyone can be a member but the people you are talking about may not want to be because then they are identified accordingly.

Just brainstorming....I think you are trying to do something that needs to be done but I think you are trying to accomplish it through the wrong means.

All across this country there are dedicated catch and release fisheries. They represent some of the most pristine and desirable places to fish.

Don't forget, we are refering *only* to a 2000 acre preserve and one which encompasses only a few miles of river.

I *strongly* believe we are going about it the right means. Believe me when I say if we don't get this done, the area will once again become closed to the public.

In the past 15 years it has been open only for the past 2 years, and from the grumblings I've heard from the parties that control it, this could return.

Or go the way of the Fort Worth Nature Center, where no bank angling is allowed at all. This area (which is located between Lake WOrth and Eagle Mountain Lake) is pristine. I've paddled up to it in a canoe before as well, and it is simply amazing.

Your idea of requiring membership for entry is quite interesting, and shows a lot of thought. With your permission I'd like to share it with "The Friends of LLELA" and the other groups associated with LLELA.

I just recently started fishing at LLELA. Been there right around 10 times. Its a great place to go and wet a hook. Unfortunately, like many of the banks on any lake, its being disrespected on a regular basis...Friday-Sunday. I enjoy catching fishing and eating what I catch most of time. I catch and release about 50%...some times more and some times less. That may just depend on how good or bad of a day I had on the water. But as Bret stated above, fishing LLELA is a privilege. If the poaching keeps going down the path that it is currently on then everyone will be barred from fishing it. So if it comes down to C&R only or not being allowed to fish there at all, I vote for making it 100% C&R. There are many other places to go and catch dinner.
Closing the gates to LLELA to anglers is a real threat and those at fault, the ones filling coolers of undersized fish could care less.

this seems like a prime opportunity for a "sting" operation ...i wonder if it would be possible to get several wardens out there at one time, undercover as fisherman in plain clothes ...that way they could catch the poachers red handed

...tickets may not be enough ...confiscation of equipment and jail time might make a dent

That's a brilliant idea, IF, they could do it.

As I said, last time we called the warden, half the people fishing there, probably 20 people, immediately dumped their coolers and buckets back into the water and drove off very quickly.

Some of those who were left still got tickets.

Others got away with it by fishing with cans with line tied around them and "dropping" the cans, till after the warden left...He can't legally ticket them unless he see's them.

But if they were undercover, then they could ticket EVERYONE breaking the law.

That'd be great.

Not that it is entirely a bad idea, I think the problem with a sting is that one day you might be out there alone and get jumped because someone thought you were a game warden or a narc or whatever.

I'm sure mixed in between the poachers who simply somehow never gained an appreciation for the law and sportsmanship, there are a fair number of characters with far greater personality flaws.

Bret, I can see that you feel very strongly about the preservation of this & other tailrace areas. After meeting you a couple weeks ago, I also beleive you are a pretty-level-headed individual. That said, I beleive those of us posting here beleive
the same, but all the cleanups in the world won't help if you don't stop it @ the source. the offenders.
I think the members only/ Pay-to-play/ C&R ideas are great,
& should be implemented.I think a meeting w/ the caretakers, City
of Lewisville Officials, Game wardens, and a core group of
coservation-minded anglers will need to take place so as to get everyone on the same page.
In addition, Instead of all of us sitting here venting & proposing, lets send this thread to TPWD officials or find out what we can do to increase GW presence there. 1 green truck in the parking lot all day will run out the lawbreakers in short order.
Also, after this thread I feel even more guilty for not making
the cleanup after saying I would. I will participate in this in
whatever capacity I can, even if it's just bring trash out every time I go.
It realy makes me feel good that there are others out there as passionate as me or more about tailrace conservation. lets do something about this together.
tight lines
-Brian

If it is a preservation area then it should have park rangers or officials. They can do a sting operation like the TPW does below Denison Dam where they film offenders. Even if they dump the fish and coolers they have documentation of the offenses. They have issued fines in excess of $10,000.

There are some that break the rules everywhere like the woman who was caught in a picture selling fish in Garland. I understand she abuses fishing priviledges below Denison Dam and at LLELA. Some of the habitual offenders should be banned for life from fishing.

You are not going to stop people from littering in an area by making it catch and release. You will diminish it some by enforcig littering laws.

How about this: if LLELA raised the price of admission to $10, the extra cash could be used to hire a few cleanup folks to clean it up every week, maybe during the week when its closed. Doesnt solve the poaching problem but, solves the trash problem.