Endemic is also not the one who claims to kill the carp he catches lol. He did say he catches and releases carp, and appreciates all fish for the angling challenge, only that he sides with the native species.

As I tend to do actually, though I do not like seeing common carp needlessly maligned or killed.

( Edited In By Lonestar who apparently can't figure out how to hit "quote" instead of "Edit" lol.) you are correct, thanks for pointing that out....I don't want to paint anyone with a broad brush

Justin, I'm aware of that. What I've been refering to is his mis-application of an Illnois study to our lakes and pulling out bits to make his point about carp being detremental without pulling the part about carp having no detremental affect on the bass and bluegill populations.

That's spin and poor science.

Gentlemen you�re absolutely right, life is still a learning process for me. I am afraid my point was sorely missed� I really did intend to give a well rounded (that is unbiased) response to the posed question of why carp are vilified by so many; not to compound the problem.

My single biggest regret is that the purpose of the TFF was temporarily lost � The best place in Texas to not only talk fishing, but gain knowledge and breed enthusiasm. My apologies go out to �ebjr� for the loss of focus by not only myself, but perhaps some of my TFF colleagues.

As far as a person of my mentality being in power, I hate to say they�re already there; they were the breeding grounds for some of my views. I take my job very seriously and would never try to put a spin on science (e.g., I really do encourage you all to read those studies in their entirety� although given what as been brought up about the longevity of carp in Texas that�s a moot point� extrapolation is a big part of the science we do, whether or not it�s accurate is what makes this job challenging).

I think we all know carp fishing in Texas will only get bigger (pun intended), it�s just going to take a delicate balance between management and conservation.

Well said. Thanks.

Well.......all y'all are havin' all the fun posting.....I figured it's time I throw a couple little tidbits.

Carp, as well as many other fish, can be helpful or detrimental to their surroundings. Whether said fish are a key part of the chain or a blockade of a healthy food chain varies....it could be a spike in a different part of the food chain, caused by weather changes, or even man-made changes.......such as run-off, drainage, loss of vegetation, pollution, etc... The large lakes are not as effected by slight curves in fish population....it usually equals itself out.

I can't argue that carp should be in every water or should be left unattended in every water they're in, but nobody can say that the common carp as a whole is bad for Lake "X", when they are looking at info/research on Lake "Z". Even lakes in the same river chain have differences and their own distinctions.

Let's not be hasty to people which we can educate or give our opinion....defending with tact and holding snap judgments go a long way.

On a side note, it's my belief that future research on the Common Carp in Texas will be a joint effort....with anglers used as a correspondence and tool.......so let's keep those options open by being a little less Mike Tyson, and a little more Dr. Phil.

Great line!

/sigh

The only difference with a fish being trash or not is in the eye of the angler. If there is a certain species you enjoy fishing for then go out and catch it, bugger what anyone else thinks of you for doing it.

As to carp being bad for certain waters or not .... All species of fish can be bad for certain waters. Theres not one water in the world that will be ideal for every single specimen anglers want to catch. The main problem is the lack of management applied to many waters (and TPWD does a fair job in my opinion). An over population of any species, carp, bass, striper etc will cause an imbalance in the ecology of a water and prove detrimental to the other species. However that balance will over a period of time re-establish itself as natural predation, famine and disease cull the overpopulated species.

As an outsider to US fishing so to speak, it seems to be that if a fish is edible and needs an artifical bait to catch it is deemed worthy. If it can't readily (carp, buffalo etc) be caught, killed and eaten it is then termed trash. I can actually understand that concept if the fish being caught today were the prime source of food for many people, but as it is freshwater fish as a staple of the populations diet has declined to the point of being negligible.

A Texas Endemic, that last post was a well thought out and very good response. I'm sure that if I knew you better I would regress in many of my previous assesments.

Thank you

Out of necessity I guess carp anglers are always ready to tackle the uninformed....we more then any group of anglers have well honed and thought out arguments ready to go....for the record....I have been presueing carp and studying them for almost a decade...they are painted unfairly because they are able to live and thrive were other weaker species are not....thus they become the majority of biomass in the labeled �problem water� and as a result are labeled as the problem....this way of thinking is a pattern that goes all the way back the industrial revolution

aslo foor the recerd I cant spel and it dosnt reflect my intelect enstien cooldnt spel either in englich or germen

TheFirstNameThat, I say "cheers" to you, nice post. It sounds like everyone has cooled down a bit, myself included. Obviously most folks on here have more in common than in difference, but when arguing, one can sway more to the extreme than they normally would for the sake of the discussion. I was all ready to put the computer away and then I saw the bonehead comment from the moderator.
To you sir I say: I agree with the ability to argue at the drop of a hat, we saw that here today. But to put yourself above other special interest groups (i.e. Trout Unlimited) by your preparedness is asinine. Yet, that still isn't what upsets me. It's your comment of carp being able to survive over "weaker" species, thus their biomass increases, thus labeled problem water, thus problem fish, and then somehow thinking stemming from the industrial revolution. You miss the point, the entire point. All my comments have been wasted on you. To go into further detail on your post would give me an aneurysm. Peace.

COttus Man please explain why you think you have "wasted" you post's on me...personally I think I am well informed and quite well educated and you have yet to prove me or anyone else on this forum to be wrong or provided proof that we were posting miss information....you on the other hand have provided us all with a bunch of obscure study s that don't apply to Texas (we are on the Texas fishing forum after all) and tried to pass them off as be all end all....

further more....when we posted study's and articles pointing to other species that have caused problems in other foreign water sheds...you don't reply to those...instead you say that I am going to cause you to rupture a vessel in your brain, a bit dramatic but what ever.....

I can only compare your failure to address the previous post to a person refusing to take a drug test....catch my drift....

It's pretty simple
1.Claim
2.Data
3.Warrant

If you don't have all 3 ready to go or you refuse to refute what has been posted already with the aforementioned facts then quite simply....piss off....

I should also add, sticking with protocol the LD format places the burden of proof on you since you are the aggressor in this situation.....