Someone better go check on ol' Boyd.

😮

Whoa Son! This is going to cause some ruckus.

Huge win for them

Didn’t realize Zona was making that much money

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

“Now, the Elite Series is in a league of its own, and the only league equivalent to other major individual sports”

Next year's Opens field is going to be stacked.

if there was a question which is the top league before, now BASS just made it clear


Great move!!

Bout time!

Bottom dwellers will make nothing, or next to nothing on this model, but I believe that is the way it should be. Kudos to BASS for finally doing the right thing.

Great news for the pro anglers!

This is great news for the sport!!

Looking at the payouts, does it look like the lower spots have dropped off $$?

I heard Wheeler had to give Boyd the heimlich this morning at breakfast to help dislodge the silver spoon he choked on when he read this.

Good job BASS!!!

Someone needs to check on beartrap

Its definitely a body blow to BPT/MLF. They will have to have an answer. It also just made the 2025 Opens the biggest thing going. I am willing to bet some current(qualified via points) BPT pros now fish the Opens.

Ryan Salzman has already posted on Instagram that he’s turned down his BPT invitation and will fish the Opens in 2025. I bet there are more coming.

Randy seems like a lefty

its the way it should be winners get the money the bottom feeders get a ribbon for being a participant.

Were the bottom half making more in payouts than they were paying in entry fees to begin with?

Honest question, I really don't know.


Seems like this move would be less stressful than starting the season $40,000 in the hole.

Likely won't be a net gain to the payouts and is 100% an optics move. I haven't looked at the payouts but rest assured it likely involved a shell game that removed funds from somewhere and this isn't a "net" add to the angler base. Regardless, BASS and the sport needed a compelling press release after a dismal 2024 in professional angling and so it checks that box.

Historically, anglers voted to pay further down the field for the opportunity to earn a check. For example, 51st through 75th place were receiving checks, but those checks were less than their entry fees. Another odd statistic: Under the previous structure, 11th place and 50th place were receiving the same payout. Now, that is not the case. For 2025, the payouts will be graduated down the field. The Top 10 will net the same winnings as before, with first place continuing to receive $100,000. For those placing between 11th and 18th, the earnings realized is actually better. The new payout structure will continue down to 40th place, which will be the new Day 3 cutline for the Elites.

Payouts, per BASS, are going to plummet.

For example (and I'm basing this off the Toledo Bend results):
2024 2025
5th $20,000 $15,000
11th $10,000 $7,000
20th $10,000 $4500
40th $10,000 $500
75th $2500 $0

Is coming in 40th in a 100 boat tournament really worthy of a $10,000 check?

It seems BASS is going towards a more performance based model.

I'm not debating what is, or is not appropriate for a professional fishing tournament payout. Just pointing out that while there are no longer entry fees, the payouts have gone way down. So I'm not sure if the trade-off is worth it - that would be a question for the Elite anglers.

In the past when these things have come up, most have voted to keep the entry fees because it creates a better payout possibility and at the end of the day, they are gamblers...

Correct me if I'm wrong but from my perspective, 51st through 75th place just doubled their money simply by eliminating the entry fee. Instead of losing $2500 (Winnings - Entry) they now lose $0. In no way should 11th & 50th place make the same check so I'm happy they have switched it. Only 10 places now lose money from last year's payouts, 41st -50th place. Instead of making $5k they walk away even (Winnings - Entry fee). This is a big win for the Anglers. They are now Professional Anglers instead of Gambling Addicts.


*Speaking only about entry fees and payouts, not expenses.

How much for Elite entry fees for the 2024 season for the Elite's?

2024 Elite payout
Toledo Bend $766,500
St Lawrence $747.500

2025 announced payouts to be $340,375 per tournament. That is a cut of over $3,800,000 for the year.

2024 Opens paid out 74% of entry fees.

Reader's Context Disclaimer : The above post was made by a noted Boyd Duckett leg humper

Not sure how he got an invitation since he was 73 in AOY points.

Around $5,000 per tournament.

I would say this cements that Omori, Chapman, Ashley, Defoe, Clausen and Lucas use their Legends exemptions to get back to the Elites in the coming years unless MLF can bring back no pay to play. I fully expect Tak to be back on the Elites in 2026. I think Mark Davis is close to retirement, Klein and Reese may not be in good standing with BASS. I could see Alton Jones and Chris Lane staying at MLF but they have legends points too.

Randy has always been a liberal

Well it will give anglers something else to bitch about

There is talk that some anglers who were well inside qualification chose to move on so MLF is having to reach out to guys they cut and offer BPT invitations to them to get a full field.

This happened prior to the BASS announcement.

Per Luke Dunkins podcast 5-6 BPT guys in the cut for next year are leaving MLF to fish the opens instead. I'm guessing guys like Matt Stefan have been called by MLF that they are back in the BPT cut because of others above them dropping out.

Who cares? Clickbait !!

I ain't fishing BASS, or any of the big circuits. Don't watch them on TV either. Fishing sucks on TV.

If you don't like the game, stay out of it, or play another.

Of course if you don't play, you can always post about the game on the web.

In 2024 there were 103 Anglers in the Elite field.

So thats $4.12 million in entry fees and they only cut $3.8.

They are paying out more money, its just getting distributed differently

Further disclaimer, the follow up to my post was made by a clown who hides behind a screen name on the internet.

Toxic Fishing Forum.

Think you are really close to being spot on Mark. I did a little research comparing 2024 vs 2025. Using a $5000 entry fee per tournament and 103 entrants as what appears to be a full field: BASS will pay out $331,375 for a typical Elite tournament in 2025 (1-40th place). In 2024, the same tournament paid out $757,500 (1-75th place). So, the payout will be $426,125 less per tournament in 2025. On the flip side, BASS will receive $515,000 less in entry fees, so net net this change will cost BASS $88,875 per tournament.... Not a lot of change really.
So it looks like the big change from an angler's perspective will be the lower ranking anglers. Worst case - An angler finishes 41st in every tournament in 2025. In 2024, he would have netted $5000 ($10,000 - $5000 entry fee) in each tournament ($50,000 for the year) before other expenses. In 2024, he would net $0 before other expenses.

Now once beartrap tells us how many hours of television Boyd contributes to we’ll have the words of wisdom from both huggers. 😎

sprigsss is correct
$515,000 of payouts were entry fees before so a $766,500 purse would be ~$250k BASS paid (not sure if some contingencies were direct payments or flowed through BASS)

Now $0 are paid in entries so a $340,375 purse is $340,375 BASS paid and is $90,000 per tournament more than they paid before, but the Classic does have a reduced payout as a result

They lowered already low payouts. Alrighty…

Payout for the top ten went up.

Actually they are going down slightly from $295k to $250k.

2024 2025
$100,000.00 1 $100,000.00
$35,000.00 2 $30,000.00
$30,000.00 3 $25,000.00
$25,000.00 4 $20,000.00
$20,000.00 5 $15,000.00
$19,000.00 6 $14,000.00
$18,000.00 7 $13,000.00
$17,000.00 8 $12,000.00
$16,000.00 9 $11,000.00
$15,000.00 10 $10,000.00

same clown and several more who predicted immediate failure of MLF back in 2018/2019 and still so small minded they refuse to acknowledge that MLF has created opportunites for an additional 80 fishermen to make a living fishing at the highest level....plus saved FLW,Toyota and BFL tournaments from going bankrupt and out of existence...they also created a huge increase in TV exposure which has put millions of dollars into the pockets of MLF fishermen....it appears that their team tournament trail is going to be a success and create additional exposure and income for MLF members.....

The Top 10 will net the same winnings as before.

Soooooooo, only a net gain for the winner in the top ten.

It’s a starting point. Everyone complains about the UFC pay scale but all their competitors go bankrupt and they are still on top. It’s not perfect but it’s got to be a huge relief for the average Angler. Hopefully they can just pocket those sponsor entry fees.

So what your saying its nothing more than a shell game, no different than when MLF did it and it failed after covid hit.

It’s all a shell game, there are only four primary sources of revenue for any tournament organization. They are the following: angler entry fees, sponsorship/ad revenue, membership fees and host location fees. BASS does have other assets and the Classic but when you “extract” entry fees from any league from the highest level to the lowest Thursday night working man’s, you’re done for. End of story. And I happen to know a little bit about this side of the business.

So either BASS or MLF when they tried it, have to play the shell game or they have to find more sponsors or cough it up out of their operating costs and how many of you think they’re going to do that? I’ll wait…

Like I said, it’s a timely optics move and press release but it doesn’t mean jack sh*t.

Davy Hite just said 2nd is 50000!

How do you know they don’t pick up a big sponsor to cover it?? Finally a true professional sport!

In this current sponsorship environment? 3-4 milllion? Lol, ok man… Jesus Mary and Joseph that’s funny.

Dude your time on the forum has come and gone. Your credibility takes a [censored] every time Boyd Duckett opens his mouth.

Lol, my credibility is just fine and has nothing to do with MLF or a member of their staff. Don’t get mad at me for simply pointing out the obvious in their move. If you want to jump up and down about it, please feel free. But don’t let me spin you out and trigger you. Cheers.

Several guys have posted their pay for this year using next years structure, it doesn't look to good for them. Foutz finished 4th this year, and with everything being equal, only changing the no entry fees and different pay structure, he would have made almost $35k less than he did this year. There is going to be a bunch of guys hurting next year.

Uhhh, thats not good...

How many "pros" are really struggling financially?

How many of you earn significantly less but still claim these pros are starving?

Why have nearly all BASS anglers refrained from disclosing their income—specifically their actual earnings from the industry we support, not just their tournament winnings?

I’d bet that the number of anglers ending the year in the red is much lower than many believe.

These anglers have four options: accept the status quo without protest, question and challenge the organizations, leave to start their own leagues or step away from "pro" fishing altogether.

The way some of you criticize Mark Jones as if he’s clueless is quite amusing. He’s undoubtedly the most knowledgeable person on this forum regarding the fishing industry’s organizational, logistical, and operational aspects. If some of you self-proclaimed experts would listen for a change, you might learn something valuable.

I bet more than you think given the fact they dont make that much money and average sponsor money for most is pretty light (sub 50K). Just look at the above example and thats from someone who had a great year and he didnt even net 6 figures. Add sponsor money and personally I would call that stuggling and its def struggling with the even lower payouts.


I imagine just like the info rule the payouts will be changed soon with all the heat they have gotten from their "employees"

Let’s see how many drop there spots since it so bad and the are already broke?

I don’t know why you cry baby fishing forum MFR’S even follow the sport

I think its the people that are the ones competing that are doing the crying. I personally could care less

I think they will raise payouts but this is a conservative effort to get started so that it has a possibility of staying this way. They could have done like MLF and overpromised only to take it back. Its change so it will be met with negativity and i get it on the payout part. What guys need to realize is at some point to make this happen those sponsor dollars that pay entries have to switch to the company in order to make the payouts go up. That wont happen overnight and the guys that have bigger deals will complain because they are soaking up that money. In order for no entries the way sponsorship works will have to change atleast a little. MLF wasnt wrong in their approach to how it should work but they didnt allow time for that money to get switched from anglers to the league and broke themselves. Doing it this way allows the room to stay without entries and get the growth needed to improve the payouts. Theoretically any way. In the bass fishing community guys will complain anyway.
One main issue anglers have is this has always been a personal sales type structure, the league is the platform for yourself. That will HAVE to change if they want this to succeed. The saleman approach will still carry some weight but now the best fishermen will have the opportunity to rise to the top without the sponsor burden being so huge. What Foutz fails to recognize is the year before he was complaing and almost quitting due to entries and that burden wouldnt be there with the new system. So that 45k or whatever he was in the hole last year would still be in his pocket and that video wouldnt have ever been made. It will take more than a year for this to work right
Like i said, theoretically i can work it out in my head, what happens in reality will depend on many factors, including if the anglers can accept change and whether they like it or not, help the league gain the funding to increase payouts

I like foutz, I think he is an outstanding fisherman. The problem with him is he thinks you should just be able to fish for a living. I'm not sure that model works now or really ever has. It's like he is a great chef in the middle of nowhere and refuses to advertise so nobody eats at his place. He is just refusing to adapt to the reality of his chosen profession.

Foutz’s layout is eye opening for sure , in his case less is clearly not more.


Shell game comments seem spot on ….this clown concedes to bear [censored] and Jones

Another perspective. I like Foutz and Birge. Birge has expressed no loyalty to either major tourney organization historically and has called out MLF numerous times. He seems to gravitate toward what makes the most business sense (as he should). He understands the outdoors industry and realizes multiple streams of income from diverse sources both on the fishing side and hunting.

Nobody ever told them they had to fish for a living. They can get a different job if the money they need isn’t there.

You don't hear much complaining from half the guys that would have made more money. These guys only work less than half the year. Get a real job too.

I would imagine if this goes the way most of us think, getting in the Opens to qualify for this is going to be gridlock the first morning entries are taken.
I don't know if it was coincidence or they new this was coming but I got a letter in the mail yesterday from MLF wanting me to fish the BFL or the Toyota Series in 2025. I can afford the BFL.
I also wouldn't be surprised at all if the BASS Open entry fees took a big jump. If the demand is what I think it will be they could do it and get away with it and offset some of the cost for the Elite series and pay deeper.
Another thing I think we'll see is a sudden rush of folks that left the Elite series for financial or other reasons suddenly flood the Opens.

This is correct answer if we are being brutally honest

Absolutely....those that want to have found or will find a way.

Thanks for the real story Mark. The leg humper comment was hilarious! That guy obviously doesn’t know you.

THIS

Talk that they might increase the Opens field size to 300

1000%. These guys can go get a real job and fish on the weekends like everyone else.

Looks like mom and dad didn't set him down and tell him how real life works... You can become a doctor, lawyer or Indian Chief and draw a dependable salary or become a commission salesman, gigolo or pro bass fisherman and bank on yourself... Dan

You can't please tournament bass fishermen. The expectations at the highest levels of tournament bass fishing are just unrealistic. People need to get the idea out of their head that one day pro fishermen will get paid like pro athletes of popular sports. It's never gonna happen. Tournament bass fishing is gambling. Pure and simple. You are always going to be competing for other peoples money. That's the game. If you have expectations otherwise, you probably need to start thinking about a career change and put bass fishing back into the hobby category where it really belongs.

There has to be a long-term strategy or potential sponsor agreement to justify the decreased payouts in the first year of this format. Certainly, some of the brass at BASS reviewed some anglers' earnings last year and compared them to what they would be in 2025. It is extremely simple math to do some eye-opening comparisons. If they didn't do that before making the announcement, then the people in charge are exponentially dumber than they should be given credit for. This did need to happen at some point, I would just have to hope the long game is worth the short-term squeeze.

In order for this to work; correct me if I'm wrong, they are going to redistribute the payouts across the board to make this work so overall even thought there will be no entry fees there will be less money paid out across the field or per place?

Furthermore, I think the anglers' biggest concern at this point may be maintaining the cash inflow from the sponsors they currently hold. I could definitely see company XYZ saying, "well, they don't have to pay entries anymore so we can decrease our monetary commitment to Joe Blow Angler and still get the same exposure." If that happens, then the anglers are really going to be taking it in the shorts. I would like to think the industry is tighter than that but at the end of the day it is about making money and cutting that expense inflates the bottom line.

I'm honestly surprised companies today even sponsor tournament anglers. With the advent of social media, I think they'd be better off finding non-tournament anglers who are social media influencers. I'm a younger guy and can't name but a few of pros on the Elites circuit right now, but I could probably fire off 15-20 angling YouTubers who have a large following.

The biggest difference I see is the risk upfront. And less guys will lose money.

If you think about it it only hurts the guys that do well Its like a redistribution of wealth

Yeh. I can just dream. I get a 240m contract to be mediocre at bass fishing. That’s the REAL good life.

I saw this elsewhere when someone broke it down.


So out of 103 places (assuming same field size as last year) 2025 payouts are :
- better for 63 places
- same for 10 places
- worse for 31 places

Is that based on the 103 anglers' finishes from last year plugged directly into the new payout structure? I guess the only way 63 would do better is if they made less than $45k in winnings last year. Plug those finishes into the new payout and technically they don't "lose" anything and come out "better". Maybe I'll just go ahead and do the full breakdown. I've seen some pretty shoddy excel work floating around on the socials thus far.

Here is his explanantion:

I took last year's and 2025's payout schedules, put them in excel, and came up with the following: when you consider everyone starting at -$5000 for every tournament in 2024:

2025 payouts are BETTER than 2024 for :
- 1st place
- 11th through 18th
- 51st through 103rd.




2025 payouts are the SAME as 2024 for:
- 2nd through 10th place
- 19th place


2025 payouts are WORSE than 2024 for:
- 20th through 50th place




So out of 103 places (assuming same field size as last year) 2025 payouts are :
- better for 63 places
- same for 10 places
- worse for 31 places


So all things being equal, the new scheme should help more anglers than it hurts, if their sponsor circumstances and performance were the same as 2024. It would be worse for those anglers who consistently land in that range of 20th to 50th.

My previous post was incorrect. I had an error in my sheets.

I was bored so I put all of the tournament results in excel as well.

Only 5 out of the top 45 anglers would make more money under the 2025 structure.

56 Anglers would make more money under 2025 Structure.
1 Would break even.
46 Anglers would make less.


So while Bass is describing this as a pay for Performance Plan, it is heavily skewed to benefitting those that did not perform.


I sitll believe they should reduce payouts for tournaments and apply that money to AOY standings. IMO consistency throughout the year should mean more than a single win.

Athletes don't earn big contracts based on a single big game, they have to be consistent throughout the year.

Unless I have another error these are the numbers I'm showing for the top 40. Includes tournament payouts, AOY Payouts, and Classic Payout. Does not include other Contigency money.

Nerd much?

The sponsor companies are not paying these guys based on what entry fees are. They pay them based on what they expect the pro to do to help the company's bottom line. Several pros have posted since yesterday that companies pay the pros direct. From whatever sponsor money or personal money the pro has that is what pays the entry fees.
The pro abd sponsor dynamic is not changed at all by these changes.

Maybe Basschamps will adopt the no entry fees format. Oh wait, then there would be some sort of qualifying to get in I would have to do. Never mind!

Lol exactly

Ummmmmmm, but they aren’t spending $45,000 now. Sounds like it’s all profit from day 1. Well, as much as possible anyway.

Should have stated it’s Payouts minus Entries.

What can I say, I use excel everyday for work, have spreadsheets for just about everything, and was bored with a little time, and I was curious.

I don’t really care one way or the other.

If you’ve done really well, it probably won’t hurt too bad. If you struggle it will help ease the sting.

I think it’s a positive you they don’t start the season $45,000 in the hole, just don’t know how you can call it “Pay for Performance, when the guys at the bottom are gaining the most. Can describe it lots of ways, but that way ain’t it.

I think its just a slower death for some. 40th money wont cover travel now. Castledine video was pretty good on it. Miliken is putting video out shortly and it will be interesting as I think he is better at math than most of the rest.

These bass fisherman whining and moaning about how much they don't make is just nuts. I truly can't wait for the real world to awaken them. Of course EVERY SINGLE BASS FISHERMAN IN THIS COUNTRY WOULD LOVE TO JUST FISH AND SET THEIR OWN PAY. When I was younger, if I wanted to make more money, I looked for a new job. That is what most people do. I like guns and fishing stuffs, but I know Academy or BPS is not going to pay me 150k to hang out at the reel counter..

You're absolutely right, skeeterboud. Wal-Mart is hiring every day.

No entry fee. Payouts suck.

Don't know why you guys are doing all this Excel work. Don't mean squat.

How many of these guys actually pay the entry fee out of their pocket any way? I'm betting a lot of sponsors are liking this.

I ain't fishing BASS Elites. Doubt anyone posting is.

Clickbait !!

Milliken video should be legit, his last one on the sponsors was pretty sharp.

He pretty much called it like it was

Who gets a free ride???... You've got to perform to make it in any profession... Quit whining and up your game...Dan

I would think non tournament guys on social media have made it even harder for the tournament guys on sponsorship money. The game has changed. There may be more side jobs or side income. Lots of ways to make some $$$ in the off season. God forbid some may have to guide again. So far I have yet to see a current Elite think it’s better.

Best way to fish it is have $$$ before you start or a wife that’s making a bunch.

professional fishing seems to be going through same thing as professional baseball and football went through back in 40's and 50's....even after games were being televised,players had to have jobs during off season because their income was so low....players went on strike to get owners to share the revenue....golfers,formed an association which shared revenue with players and limited the number of competitors.....not sure to what extent revenue is being shared but MLF appears to modeled after the PGA....
with the growth of high school and college bass tourneys plus FFS,it's going to be interesting to see where professional bass fishing is headed next few years...

I need to start B.A.S.S. F.U. Bass fishing union. I can start getting a bargaining agreement in place for the union anglers.

Its seems like they could have reduced the entry to 2500. That would have kept 250k ish in pot to beef up the payouts for top 50 and still given the field a break. Of course they would not have gotten the attention from this but I'm not sure they are happy with the attention they are getting from this.

Just watched it , a pretty stark and eye opening.


My opinion is that BASS didn’t think this one through and once again stepped on their D

Optics are that they take their guys for idiots


Added thought , this is reminiscent of the previous owners that were idiots and lost half their field to FBD because of things like this.

This would have been a win PR wise , “ we can’t eliminate them guys but it’s a step in the right direction”

Ok, watched the Milli video. Here’s my thinking, any sponsorship money these guys get can now go straight into the “profit” category. Say they can get $50k from JoeBlowCorporation, they are already ahead. The winnings will pay for their gas, food, lodging, expenses.

And at the end of the day, they are the ones that decided to be “pro-fishermen”. They can go get suck a** jobs like the rest of us that offer retirement, health insurance and a constant marginal paycheck.

Edit: I agree with WAWI, they should have just lowered the entry fees and it would have been called a win.

And for the love of God, stop buying new over priced boats every single year. Learn what a budget is.

Why not just cut the entry's in half and keep the same payout or maybe even a little better! I think everyone would have been happy with that! And that would be working in the right direction. Someone should step in and do a $2500 side pot for the anglers! lol

Everyone remembers BASS is a for-profit company right? It's a business and they want to make money. Cutting entry fees takes away $4,635,000 in income to BASS. I highly doubt they could have cut entry fees and kept payouts the same. But their parent company is also private so they don't have to disclose financials. https://www.andersonmediacorp.com/our-companies

what am I missing? how is anyone upset about this? seems to me the issue is some were paying entry fees and other were not. if you were not paying entry fees, due to sponsorship, i guess this is a paycut? but could u negotiate more money from sponsors that comes directly to you?

I dunno, i'm not a pro, so what do I know.

I bet the 2025 Elite season starts with a full field regardless of the anglers saying they don't like the changes.

100% There are enough guys that want to chase the dream that they will do it for less money. There will ALWAYS be guys/gals ready to step in.

I'm saying that I doubt any of them that are currently qualified on the Elites and planned on fishing it next year will still show up next year.


I said this earlier this year and feel this way even more now. These anglers always complaining about payouts, entry fees etc might just be alienating a good amount of fans. The economy sucks and lots are struggling themselves. They see a guy getting to fish for a living constantly complaining and it causes some discontent.


I think a lot of the pros live in a bubble to some extent. Their friend circle is all pro anglers as well so they get myopic in their view of things and don't realize things are tough all over. Not just in fishing.

Seems like a great move- it’s funny how everyone is happy about it but they bashed mlf when they attempted it.

Who bashed MLF for it. At the time it seemed like a huge deal.