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Re: Boat driving help [Re: ogles824 (aka Lakewaydr50)] #15142573 07/27/24 12:53 PM
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Ken A. Online Content
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Originally Posted by ogles824 (aka Lakewaydr50)
I didn't realize the Phoenix boats had this problem, it might be something with the set up for sure. I rode in a PHX19 a while back and it spent most of its running time at WOT and there were no issues with chine walk. If you don't get it sorted via adjustments seat time will cure a lot of it. I used to have a bad habit of over trimming and I found out through watching you tube videos that full trim isn't where a boat performs it best a lot of times. There is a sweet spot on some boats that is below full trim. The Skeeter I currently own is the first boat I've owned that ran its best at full trim, almost to fine to the point of being boring. I don't run wide open as much as I used to I'm more into finding that sweet spot to get the best fuel mileage these days, but usually on the way back to the boat ramp to go home I've got to air it out a little. This old ZX200 with a worked prop with good water and air will put up 69.8 mph loaded but it feels like I'm driving a school bus, all my other boats that would run this fast you had to learn how to dance with them.


All performance vee hulls will chine walk once you get them aired out. It's a combo of soft rubber motor mounts uppers & lowers that exacerbates this. The hull wants to start oscillating on the pad due to the prop lifting the hull free of the water. There have been many articles written about this. You can read them all and watch all the videos on the internet but there is a learning curve to driving a high perf vee bottom. It is a learned thing.

Skeeters don't experience this because they built the pontoons on the transom to address the backwash issue many years ago. They also serve as training wheels for the driver. Don't stone me for saying that. It is what it is.

I understand the school bus analogy Steve. Just another reason I've never been a Skeeter fan-boy. My guess is when you rode in the PHX19 the guy never trimmed it above 75%. If you keep most of the pad in the water none of them will chine walk but they also will be running at 75% of their top end speed. If that's okay with you its okay with me.

Give me a Bullet or Allison with nothing but the prop and a foot of the pad in the water and I am happy as a clam.


Last edited by Ken A.; 07/27/24 12:57 PM.


Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15142593 07/27/24 01:30 PM
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WAWI Online Content
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Raise the motor, be slow with the trim, minor corrections, the first trick is convincing yourself you aren't about to die.

Re: Boat driving help [Re: WAWI] #15142597 07/27/24 01:40 PM
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Ken A. Online Content
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Originally Posted by WAWI
Raise the motor, be slow with the trim, minor corrections, the first trick is convincing yourself you aren't about to die.


roflmao



Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15142611 07/27/24 01:53 PM
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The Rick Pierce video is pretty good. He speaks of holding a bit left. Other guys talk about pumping steering wheel a little. I think it's something you have to feel. I went from a ranger, point and drive to a cat. When I first experienced it around mid 60s I was positive I was gonna die..... it takes a bit of seat time and I tend to go with Pierce on the hold left just enough that you feel the prop grabbing for lack of a better way of explaining it. And whatever you do make sure you understand that you have to ease out of it and bring the nose down under control because if you just get out of it and drop the nose you can hook it. It took me 6 months to get comfortable with what the boat would do and how to manage it.

Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15142654 07/27/24 02:51 PM
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Call the factory and see where they're setting them up at the factory. They'll know about where you should start with the setup you have, prop, prop to pad setup... After checking everything the factory tells you, go through you boat and try to balance the Bass Pro Shop you have stuffed into every compartment... Then head to the lake. Try to do when all the wake boats and pontoons are rocking the lake... #1 rule is never, ever try to drive through chine walk... It'll get you hurt real fast... Rule #2 Keep your eyes focused just over the bow, that'll allow you to watch and observe how the hull is acting to the changing conditions... Do it in steps... Get comfortable at 55 mph, mess with the trim see how the boat reacts, then 60 mph, again see how everything reacts, then get it to where it just starts walking and bump the trim down, give it throttle and bump it up, play with it there on the edge until you feel comfortable. Then trim up and at the first hint of walk give the steering wheel a quick jerk to the left, wait until you feel the walk and another quick jerk to the left. You'll find that it's a rhythm thing... My Bullet is solid as a rock until I get to 70mph, then it starts to walk, once I get to 75mph it's solid again, I can drive it with one hand and cruise. But once I get over 80mph then you have to start driving it to get it to its full potential... It's hard to explain, but you'll feel a lot of it in the seat of your pants. Take it slow and learn to trust what your feeling... It takes time and patience to drive a hi performance boat to its full potential... Dan


"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood"...
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Re: Boat driving help [Re: Ken A.] #15142790 07/27/24 05:03 PM
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ogles824 (aka Lakewaydr50) Offline
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Originally Posted by Ken A.
Originally Posted by ogles824 (aka Lakewaydr50)
I didn't realize the Phoenix boats had this problem, it might be something with the set up for sure. I rode in a PHX19 a while back and it spent most of its running time at WOT and there were no issues with chine walk. If you don't get it sorted via adjustments seat time will cure a lot of it. I used to have a bad habit of over trimming and I found out through watching you tube videos that full trim isn't where a boat performs it best a lot of times. There is a sweet spot on some boats that is below full trim. The Skeeter I currently own is the first boat I've owned that ran its best at full trim, almost to fine to the point of being boring. I don't run wide open as much as I used to I'm more into finding that sweet spot to get the best fuel mileage these days, but usually on the way back to the boat ramp to go home I've got to air it out a little. This old ZX200 with a worked prop with good water and air will put up 69.8 mph loaded but it feels like I'm driving a school bus, all my other boats that would run this fast you had to learn how to dance with them.


All performance vee hulls will chine walk once you get them aired out. It's a combo of soft rubber motor mounts uppers & lowers that exacerbates this. The hull wants to start oscillating on the pad due to the prop lifting the hull free of the water. There have been many articles written about this. You can read them all and watch all the videos on the internet but there is a learning curve to driving a high perf vee bottom. It is a learned thing.

Skeeters don't experience this because they built the pontoons on the transom to address the backwash issue many years ago. They also serve as training wheels for the driver. Don't stone me for saying that. It is what it is.

I understand the school bus analogy Steve. Just another reason I've never been a Skeeter fan-boy. My guess is when you rode in the PHX19 the guy never trimmed it above 75%. If you keep most of the pad in the water none of them will chine walk but they also will be running at 75% of their top end speed. If that's okay with you its okay with me.

Give me a Bullet or Allison with nothing but the prop and a foot of the pad in the water and I am happy as a clam.

When I had that 340V Ranger it was the scariest but most fun boat I ever drove. It would get so stupid at full trim and throttle it would chine walk and porpoise all at the same time, once it got past it's happy place. If you had two people in it you could drive it a little faster but still couldn't reach top speed, every time I let out of it, it felt like it had a lot more to give, I just didn't have a death wish to take it there.
You can look at my hull from the transom and tell it's different, I think the design is something they may borrowed from Gambler, that is the only other boat I've ever seen with the monster outside chines which I figure attributes to the high speed stability too. The way they built it, it's like it is running on rails literally.


2012 ZX200 Skeeter
2012 Yamaha 200 SHO

Isaiah 40:31 "but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwF72B2F2w&t=14s
Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15142809 07/27/24 05:19 PM
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Rick pierce video is pretty spot on. Most people trim too much too fast. Weight distribution from side to side can cause issues as well.


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Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15142926 07/27/24 08:15 PM
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Never knew a Ranger would go fast enough to chine walk.

Re: Boat driving help [Re: ko bass attack 27] #15142966 07/27/24 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ko bass attack 27
Never knew a Ranger would go fast enough to chine walk.


I've seen their trailers sway back and forth on the highway... Dan bolt


"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood"...
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Re: Boat driving help [Re: Capt. Bryan] #15142992 07/27/24 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Capt. Bryan
Most people trim too much too fast. Weight distribution from side to side can cause issues as well.


This ^^^^^^^^ When I had my TR21 out for the first time, I hammered the throttle and leaned on the up trim like I have always done on my other boats. As it was hitting 72 MPH it went freaking wild like it was going out of control! I took it to the dealer and told him that the boat had a problem and explained what happened. He said "You don't know how to drive this boat". That comment pissed me off. So we took it to the lake and he showed me the error of my ways. You got to ease into the top end by going easy on the up trim. When it starts to wobble a bit, use your steering wheel to counter the wobble. Get control of that and then bump the trim up again. At some point, the boat will smooth out and you won't have to fight it. Just remember that when you slow down, you are going to go through the wobble zone again. I eventually hit 80 MPH GPS in my boat. Like the man said, I just had to learn to drive it. Good luck!


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Re: Boat driving help [Re: Dan21XRS] #15143179 07/28/24 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan21XRS
Originally Posted by ko bass attack 27
Never knew a Ranger would go fast enough to chine walk.


I've seen their trailers sway back and forth on the highway... Dan bolt

Forrest Wood and company built their first duel step hull on the 340V. It was about 16 feet long and rated for 150 horsepower. Mine had the light weight Merc XR2 150 which was the 2.0 Litre 135 hot rodded, I think a lot of them became shrapnel bombs while they were being produced. It would spin a 25 inch pitch 4 blade Predator stainless prob to nearly 6000 rpm's if you could keep it stable enough to get there and it still wanted to turn more RPM's but you'd have to back out or you might take your final ride to the cemetery.


2012 ZX200 Skeeter
2012 Yamaha 200 SHO

Isaiah 40:31 "but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
Proud student of the Pro Staffer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwF72B2F2w&t=14s
Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15143360 07/28/24 04:48 AM
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Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15143454 07/28/24 12:49 PM
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Good explanation by Rick.

It is a huge benefit to be able to get up to 65 mph and run down the lake playing with the jackplate, trim angle, throttle, etc. However, one of the biggest challenges we have here in Texas is we don't have miles of open water to run at high speed like you do at Bull Shoals. We run a couple miles down a boat lane and then have to shut down or risk losing a lower unit on a submerged stump.



Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15143472 07/28/24 01:09 PM
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Ken A. Online Content
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All the new Merc outboards have the soft rubber motor mounts except for the R-motors. The change from rubber to stiff mounts makes the boat so much easier to drive because it removes much of that slop I showed in my video.

The soft rubber mounts dampen the vibration of the motor you feel through the hull but there is a price for this luxury. It makes the boat harder to drive at high speed because the mounts are stretched like a rubber band to one side and the higher the motor on the jackplate and the higher you trim the more torque that is placed on the mounts.

If you want to experience just how much slop, get to WOT and full trim and then lift your foot off the throttle suddenly. LOL

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Re: Boat driving help [Re: New_Guy] #15143492 07/28/24 01:30 PM
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I have the same boat and exact setup. Josh from Steves prop told me to go to 2.5" below pad. Runs perfect! Great holeshot and will get to 69 before any noticeable chine. Just twitch steering to the left to bust the chine and hold on! Every hull and prop are different. Have your prop checked, more than likely the pitch and cup for each blade are a little different coming from factory! I was told a tempest prop works the best for this boat. Don't know, I still have the factory Yamaha prop. 24p T1......


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Dave Egge

Phoenix 819 Pro
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And he said unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men
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