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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: Dogfish_Jones]
#15130832
07/16/24 02:11 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 44,834
WAWI
TFF Guru
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I think people are missing the point here. Lets go to the original question that was ask, Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
History provides us that answer, The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary on June 28, 1914, got everything rolling for World War I.
I will go with the fact here, yes, it could/would cause a Civil war if it would cause a World War. well anything is possible. lets assign a probability to it. I will go with .9999 it would not cause a civil war, .0001 it would......... how bout that. Do you have a different set of numbers in your mind. Not that I would really say would be true. I can find other examples where leaders were killed, shot really and it caused some serious problems between nations. But for one man being killed by an assassin it did caused over 53, 000 Americans to die and over 63,000 to be injured. Over 100,000 Americans fought because of one mans assassination. I would venture to say if you had ask any of those that lost a loved one during that war, you would hear them tell you their percentage was 100% That really was not the question was it.....
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: TxBassSniper]
#15130836
07/16/24 02:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 8,889
Jpurdue
TFF Celebrity
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4 US presidents have been assassinated. None of them caused civil wars. Interestingly all modern presidents have had assassination attempts on them, with the possible exception of Joe Biden. Maybe people just figured he'd die any minute on his own.
It's not clear to me that a civil war is really possible at the moment. The asymmetry between the US military and the civilian population is too vast. The only way I'd see something like that happening is if there was a wildly popular general who decided to break away. I don't think that person exists right now.
Now could it get ugly? Yes, and maybe for a long time, but not in the sense of a traditional war with two well organized sides capable of each inflicting serious damage on the other.
Last edited by Jpurdue; 07/16/24 02:19 PM.
"Bragging may not bring happiness, but no man having caught a large fish goes home through an alley." -A.L. www.LunkerLore.com
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: TxBassSniper]
#15130837
07/16/24 02:19 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 27,270
ReelBusy
TFF Guru
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Was there civil war after JFK was assassinated? History provides that answer.
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: crankn101]
#15130844
07/16/24 02:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 57,540
RayBob
Super Freak
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We don't need a civil war ...... DC does need a good cleaning though. And that is a revolution If it is within one nation I think they call that type of conflict a civil war even though it is or can be considered a revolution. On your percentages statement I think at the time only about 30% of the colonists backed the Revolutionary War against English oppression. I think about the same percentage were loyal to England and the king.
Advice? Wise men don't need it. Fools
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: TxBassSniper]
#15130846
07/16/24 02:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 57,540
RayBob
Super Freak
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The above is probably similar to the Repubs vs Dems percentages with the rest ambivalent.
Advice? Wise men don't need it. Fools
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: Jpurdue]
#15130899
07/16/24 03:02 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 44,834
WAWI
TFF Guru
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4 US presidents have been assassinated. None of them caused civil wars. Interestingly all modern presidents have had assassination attempts on them, with the possible exception of Joe Biden. Maybe people just figured he'd die any minute on his own.
It's not clear to me that a civil war is really possible at the moment. The asymmetry between the US military and the civilian population is too vast. The only way I'd see something like that happening is if there was a wildly popular general who decided to break away. I don't think that person exists right now.
Now could it get ugly? Yes, and maybe for a long time, but not in the sense of a traditional war with two well organized sides capable of each inflicting serious damage on the other. some civil unrest would be as much as i could imagine. I would argue it would be less than what went on with BLM, Antifa, etc. At the end of the day a vast majority of the population is generally well off, at least compared to the rest of the world. Nobody is gonna do anything to get in the way of watching football on sundays, sitting out by the pool, smoking a brisket, binge watching netflix, and happy hour drink specials. To compare where we are as a society to 100 plus years ago in eastern Europe is a giant leap. And to be clear a war with another country is one thing, A war where people are killing their fellow countrymen is totally different and that was the idea behind the post.
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: WAWI]
#15130914
07/16/24 03:14 PM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 5,076
Dogfish_Jones
TFF Celebrity
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I think people are missing the point here. Lets go to the original question that was ask, Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
History provides us that answer, The assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Hungary on June 28, 1914, got everything rolling for World War I.
I will go with the fact here, yes, it could/would cause a Civil war if it would cause a World War. well anything is possible. lets assign a probability to it. I will go with .9999 it would not cause a civil war, .0001 it would......... how bout that. Do you have a different set of numbers in your mind. Not that I would really say would be true. I can find other examples where leaders were killed, shot really and it caused some serious problems between nations. But for one man being killed by an assassin it did caused over 53, 000 Americans to die and over 63,000 to be injured. Over 100,000 Americans fought because of one mans assassination. I would venture to say if you had ask any of those that lost a loved one during that war, you would hear them tell you their percentage was 100% That really was not the question was it..... I thought it was, I gave you the answer of "not that I would say would be true". You put an umber on it, I cannot put a certain number on it. Factions would say, 50% would, some 25%, then you say .0001. I can't really say with any type of pure guessing what that number would be. But if a number is the answer let's say 5% and I am just throwing an umber out there without any factual substance to back it up. But your guess is good as anyone else I'm sure.
2020 Nitro Z20, Mercury 250xp 4 stroke "Sometimes I have to remind myself that it is called Fishing and not catching"
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: Dogfish_Jones]
#15130932
07/16/24 03:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 17,121
Sawhorse
TFF Guru
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well anything is possible. lets assign a probability to it. I will go with .9999 it would not cause a civil war, .0001 it would......... how bout that. Do you have a different set of numbers in your mind. Not that I would really say would be true. I can find other examples where leaders were killed, shot really and it caused some serious problems between nations. But for one man being killed by an assassin it did caused over 53, 000 Americans to die and over 63,000 to be injured. Over 100,000 Americans fought because of one mans assassination. I would venture to say if you had ask any of those that lost a loved one during that war, you would hear them tell you their percentage was 100% That really was not the question was it..... I thought it was, I gave you the answer of "not that I would say would be true". You put an umber on it, I cannot put a certain number on it. Factions would say, 50% would, some 25%, then you say .0001. I can't really say with any type of pure guessing what that number would be. But if a number is the answer let's say 5% and I am just throwing an umber out there without any factual substance to back it up. But your guess is good as anyone else I'm sure. If history is the best predictor of the future, why would you go against WAWI. Remember how right he was about the Covid hoax? There was a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth when he proclaimed it but I don’t think one person disagrees with that one now.
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: ReelBusy]
#15130936
07/16/24 03:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 5,076
Dogfish_Jones
TFF Celebrity
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Was there civil war after JFK was assassinated? History provides that answer. There is huge difference in that event than last Saturdays. 1- most of the country liked JFK, especially Marylin Monroe. 2- JFK was not in a heated election campaign. 3- The Republicans were not calling to put Kennedy in their bullseye, they were not calling him Hitler over the TV everyday, He was not being called a threat to this country. You have to not only look at history but look at the circumstances as to when it happened. James Garfield, He was in office for only 4 or so months when he was shot. His assassin, Guiteau was assessed during his trial and autopsy as mentally unbalanced or suffering from the effects of neurosyphilis. He claimed to have shot Garfield out of disappointment at being passed over for appointment as Ambassador to France. William McKinley, October 29, 1901. Leon Czolgosz, an anarchist, His actions were politically motivated, although it remains unclear what outcome, if any, he believed the shooting would yield. Interesting side note was because of this, the government created the Secret Service to protect the president from then on. Theodore RooseveltHere we do see that Teddy was on the campaign trail, but his opponent nor the Democrats or Republicans were not calling for any violence against him. Roosevelt was running as a Progressive at the time. On October 14, 1912, John Schrank, a saloon-keeper from New York who had been stalking him for weeks. At Schrank's trial, he claimed that William McKinley had visited him in a dream and told him to avenge his assassination by killing Roosevelt. He was found legally insane and was institutionalized until his death in 1943. Ronald ReaganMarch 30, 1981 Hinckley said he had wanted to kill Reagan to impress actress Jodie Foster.Not anything to do with politics at all. He was deemed mentally ill and confined to an institution. Abraham Lincoln.This is the closest that you can find that even compares to the JFK assassination. I am sure most everyone has seen and read all the similar comparisons to both these assassinations, they are interesting to compare them. This was politically motivated, but not by parties per se but by Union/Confederate nations and a very bloody Civil War. Not only was Lincoln going to be killed but Booth formulated a plan with co-conspirators to assassinate Lincoln at the theater, as well as Vice President Andrew Johnson and Secretary of State William H. Seward at their homes. Booth was looking to take out his revenge upon more than just the president. I do believe because of this assassination the southern states suffer much more by Lincoln being killed and him not in power. Lincoln was seeking for a much easier transition of those states back into the Union. saying that a Civil War was about over, no need to start something when they have already defeated them. But they sure did make it hard, tough and with military control over those southern states that left harboring feeling for many, many years afterwards. So as we look back into history, then we can see the Trump/JFK assassination are two different events that cannot be compared to one another. Plus one was killed and the other wasn't and not just two days before that person Convention to nominate them for their party to become president. Then lets add what has been going on over the past 3 to 7 years with so many in this nation hating Trump and so many hating Biden. The fuel there for the fire the thing lacking is the accelerate to start it. It will not be as clean cut as the war between the states from 1861-1865, there will be no demographic lines, it will be more like partisan groups taking out whatever they choose to in that area and every area will be somewhat different.
2020 Nitro Z20, Mercury 250xp 4 stroke "Sometimes I have to remind myself that it is called Fishing and not catching"
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: TxBassSniper]
#15130937
07/16/24 03:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 15,758
grandbassslayer
TFF Guru
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Joined: Jun 2020
Posts: 15,758 |
I guess the closest we get to a civil war is just a typical Saturday night in Chicago… I always find the term “civil” war a bit funny- it’s like “gentlemen’s” club…
Last edited by grandbassslayer; 07/16/24 03:51 PM.
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: grandbassslayer]
#15130942
07/16/24 03:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,033
spazm09
TFF Guru
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,033 |
I guess the closest we get to a civil war is just a typical Saturday night in Chicago… I always find the term “civil” war a bit funny- it’s like “gentlemen’s” club… 
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: grandbassslayer]
#15130948
07/16/24 04:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 5,076
Dogfish_Jones
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 5,076 |
I guess the closest we get to a civil war is just a typical Saturday night in Chicago… I always find the term “civil” war a bit funny- it’s like “gentlemen’s” club… Very true, there they do not care who you are they just shoot and kill.
2020 Nitro Z20, Mercury 250xp 4 stroke "Sometimes I have to remind myself that it is called Fishing and not catching"
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: Dogfish_Jones]
#15130949
07/16/24 04:01 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 44,834
WAWI
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 44,834 |
Was there civil war after JFK was assassinated? History provides that answer. There is huge difference in that event than last Saturdays. 1- most of the country liked JFK, especially Marylin Monroe. 2- JFK was not in a heated election campaign. 3- The Republicans were not calling to put Kennedy in their bullseye, they were not calling him Hitler over the TV everyday, He was not being called a threat to this country. You have to not only look at history but look at the circumstances as to when it happened. James Garfield, He was in office for only 4 or so months when he was shot. His assassin, Guiteau was assessed during his trial and autopsy as mentally unbalanced or suffering from the effects of neurosyphilis. He claimed to have shot Garfield out of disappointment at being passed over for appointment as Ambassador to France. William McKinley, October 29, 1901. Leon Czolgosz, an anarchist, His actions were politically motivated, although it remains unclear what outcome, if any, he believed the shooting would yield. Interesting side note was because of this, the government created the Secret Service to protect the president from then on. Theodore RooseveltHere we do see that Teddy was on the campaign trail, but his opponent nor the Democrats or Republicans were not calling for any violence against him. Roosevelt was running as a Progressive at the time. On October 14, 1912, John Schrank, a saloon-keeper from New York who had been stalking him for weeks. At Schrank's trial, he claimed that William McKinley had visited him in a dream and told him to avenge his assassination by killing Roosevelt. He was found legally insane and was institutionalized until his death in 1943. Ronald ReaganMarch 30, 1981 Hinckley said he had wanted to kill Reagan to impress actress Jodie Foster.Not anything to do with politics at all. He was deemed mentally ill and confined to an institution. Abraham Lincoln.This is the closest that you can find that even compares to the JFK assassination. I am sure most everyone has seen and read all the similar comparisons to both these assassinations, they are interesting to compare them. This was politically motivated, but not by parties per se but by Union/Confederate nations and a very bloody Civil War. Not only was Lincoln going to be killed but Booth formulated a plan with co-conspirators to assassinate Lincoln at the theater, as well as Vice President Andrew Johnson and Secretary of State William H. Seward at their homes. Booth was looking to take out his revenge upon more than just the president. I do believe because of this assassination the southern states suffer much more by Lincoln being killed and him not in power. Lincoln was seeking for a much easier transition of those states back into the Union. saying that a Civil War was about over, no need to start something when they have already defeated them. But they sure did make it hard, tough and with military control over those southern states that left harboring feeling for many, many years afterwards. So as we look back into history, then we can see the Trump/JFK assassination are two different events that cannot be compared to one another. Plus one was killed and the other wasn't and not just two days before that person Convention to nominate them for their party to become president. Then lets add what has been going on over the past 3 to 7 years with so many in this nation hating Trump and so many hating Biden. The fuel there for the fire the thing lacking is the accelerate to start it. It will not be as clean cut as the war between the states from 1861-1865, there will be no demographic lines, it will be more like partisan groups taking out whatever they choose to in that area and every area will be somewhat different. The lighter fluid might be there, the charcoal or wood is not there. Are there some small pockets of nuts out there in the woods? Sure. They have beat the drums since ruby ridge. I'm telling you right now that in my opinion outside of the occasional nut job Joe q public isn't interested in it. The economics aren't there, they aren't even close to being there.
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: grandbassslayer]
#15130951
07/16/24 04:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 3,793
nfhbass
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 3,793 |
I guess the closest we get to a civil war is just a typical Saturday night in Chicago… I always find the term “civil” war a bit funny- it’s like “gentlemen’s” club… Chicago gets a bad rap, media induced propaganda, look at the stats sheets, there are far more dangerous cities in America if we are talking gun violence and murder rates.
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Re: Would the assassination of Trump caused a Civil War?
[Re: TxBassSniper]
#15130959
07/16/24 04:10 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 44,834
WAWI
TFF Guru
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 44,834 |
And let me add the concept of a Civil War in this day and age for a country this size has about a zero percent chance of success. All those bullets people have buried in their bunkers will amount to jack squat. It's a whole different world
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