I'm sure there are strong opinions on this subject, but I am curious to see what the majority thinks. My question is: Should Livescope be outlawed?

Personally, I think it should be outlawed. I consider Livescope to be the same as gill netting. There is no sport in dropping a hook into a fishes mouth via video screen. What are your opinions?

Asking for an opinion on something you obviously know nothing about from the sound of your post. Can't speak for others but as an owner and user of FFS for several years now if I think you're technology challenged because you're old and technology passed you by or you're just ignorant as can be.

One of the strong opinions I was speaking of; by someone who argues by name calling and generalities because he is not intelligent enough to argue with facts. Ignorant of what? Using livescope is no different than hunting with drones. Hunting with drones is illegal, so why is livescope different? My opinion is that the law has not caught up with technology. Hopefully it will soon.

No....

I would to need use one to see if it's as big of a cheat as people say.


I can't afford one and I'm not buying one so I'm neutral.

No.

I have a buddy that told me the same thing, “they need to outlaw it because it makes fishing too easy”. Then he bought one, “to get the advantage”… he went out to use it and called me begging me to come out and show him what to do. I just laughed and told him to quit listening to the old people, because they didn’t know what they were talking about and yet again, proved with the OP’s post above.


Let’s use this “hunting with drones” comment. First off, a drone wouldn’t work where there are trees, I guess in the desert it would work. But land is 1 dimensional, it’s pretty much flat. The deer can’t be 1’ high or 50’ high, it’s going to be on the ground. A lake is multi-dimensional, a little fish that is 18” long by 4” wide can be anywhere’s from 6” deep to 60’ deep. You aren’t going to find pinpointing that little fish all that easily. Sure the young guys with great vision can do pretty well with the technology, but the average fishermen will suck with it.

Now I will say that for crappie fishing, it works great. OP didn’t specify, so whatever.

I catch less bass with livescope!

This subject has been beat to death

The 1st thing that came to my mind was whether you mean outlawed entirely or just in tournaments. I do not think it should be outlawed everywhere and tournaments should make their own rules.

Truth hurts sometimes. Oh, forget the 3rd category. Those who can’t afford it so they bash it.

We should outlaw fishing

Sounds like you have no clue.

well this has never been discussed!

No, I don't think it should be banned. I currently don't have forward facing sonar, but might in the future. I just don't think it is as easy to catch fish as it looks. You still need to locate the areas holding fish and then get them to bite. I just returned from a trip to Toledo Bend lake and caught some bass in open water on a hump vertical jigging while looking at my 2D sonar unit. I could see the bass near the hump and I literally dropped lure straight down in front of trolling motor to catch them 15' deep. Should 2D sonar be banned also?

What needs to be banned is lazy arguments and resorting to generalities. Being old and having technology pass you is a thing of the past. My dad is in his 60s and works on AI. This idea was maybe valid with older generations but people who grew up around technology didn't just forget how to use when it was attached to a boat.

Someone people just have different perspectives on technology and the traditions of hunting. Nothing more satisfying then getting a buck for example with a bow and arrow to some though they are still 2a supporters for example.

You can consider it whatever you want but the fact of the matter is it is nothing like what you consider. Anyone that has used it would know that. Hell no it shouldn’t be outlawed. If you don’t want to use it don’t. Is that such a hard concept?

Just because you can see the fish doesn't mean you will catch the fish.

Why stop there ? Lets outlaw all electronic devices and make every body of water , catch and release with barbless hooks ?
No motorized crafts , no live bait , no guides , no fishing on weekends.

{sarcasm font}



Mo

Why stop there and just outlaw tournaments all together, then the bassboat industry, and fishing equipment industry will just die and wither away.

Yep!

Nope. Next question?

Do you have it on your boat? If so, how long have you used it? What brand?
To compare it to gill netting is just a blanket ignorant statement.
And saying that dropping a hook into a fishes mouth via video screen, well that just proves how uneducated you are on the subject.

So from your crappy statements, I'll guess that you don't have it on your boat and have never used it. It's like saying, I have a 200hp motor on my boat, so I think the guys with 250hp motors should be banned.

Wasn't the original post a generality and kind of a lazy argument because from the examples given in that post it is painfully obvious the OP probably has no firsthand experience using FFS?

There's a thread in the crappie section about how Mississippi Dept of wildlife & fisheries has reduced the crappie limits due to overall increased harvests. The department directly links the increased use of FFS as a factor in the unsustainable harvest of crappie.

That has me paying attention. There are times when a given technology or fishing method is so effective that it's harmful to the targeted fish population. My favorite example is the old 'fish traps' that were once used in Alaska that nearly wiped out salmon in many areas.

Maybe there's some merit in the idea that FFS is too effective for recreational fishing.

No one really keeps bass though. How is it decimating the bass population?

It shouldn't be allowed in competitive events but that's for the organization to decide, for general public usage have at it.

I throw my two cents worth into this conversation. I think you are assuming that FFS/Livescope works like a laser beam and it doesn't. It is more like a 12 gauge shotgun with an improved cylinder choke in it and the further the target is from the transducer the wider the signal so at an average cast distance what you are seeing on the screen could be a few feet from one side or the other so dropping a lure in front of a fishes nose is still more about luck especially at a distance. I fished next to a guy at Fork two weeks ago that was using in in a tournament, I don't have it yet and he couldn't get them to bite, but neither did I and I used side scan to locate the fish I was fishing for. Here's a video that explains what I'm saying.

New Technology.

Advance with it or not that is to each person decision.

We advanced with Side Imaging or Down Imaging.

I look at it like this you have a ( smart phone not a dial up phone ) , because you went with the new technology.

Embrace it and learn it or not . Your choice.

Plus #1.

Yes it should be outlawed...along with stupid high priced bass boats, ridiculous priced pickups, over priced gated community 's with mcmansions, and brisket that is over $2.25 a pound...:)

You get a 17ft boat, no electronics and 4 rods and that's it...you can't catch anything with that setup you ain't no fisherman....just like in them thar olden days.

If I wasn't coaching an HS team that is probably what I'd be rolling in. I've owned one 17 foot tin rig and owned it the least amount of time of any boat I've ever owned and probably caught more fish out of it than all the others combined. I've owned 5 bass boats in my lifetime. I'm a firm believer the most important tool you need to have on board your boat is stealth.

I'd love to hear the evidence that you have for more government interference, in terms of outlawing something.

If you don't have any, then that just means you want something outlawed because you don't like it.

Do you have pronouns?

we cant stop the technology, we can only control it. who draws the limit of what we can use to catch fish ?
what if my live scope came equipped with a beam that once I find them with LS, I just point a zapping beam at the biggest fish and stun it up to the net,...why cant I use an old ring-up telephone to shock up fish,..?
or drag a big gill net behind my boat..? at some point the sport is taken out of the effort,...I guess I have to ask myself whats right..and what can be controlled ..??

To the person who suggested I have no experience with livescope, you would be wrong. My experience is what concerned me. We were scheduled to fish with a crappie guide. The afternoon of our trip a cold front blew in and dropped the temp down to the low to mid 40's. There was a 20 mph cold north wind blowing, and we all knew there was almost zero chance we would catch fish. We showed up and the guide had livescope. We went out to the protected side of a point in the lake to an underwater tree he liked to fish. He turned on livescope and each one of us took turns dropping a miinnow down to the fish. Of course the fish were not biting because of the pressure change from the cold front. We had to watch the screen and bounce the minnow on the nose of a single crappie until the fish got mad and ate the minnow to get it out of it's face. We ended up catching a 3 man limit that afternoon by taking turns pissing off fish via video screen; one fish at a time. To me that is not fishing. We were playing a video game. If we had not been using livescope we would not have caught a single fish that day. That was enough to convince me that livescope should be outlawed for obvious reasons.

So you’re complaining that you caught a limit

That was not my complaint at all. Re-read, but slower this time.

I've said this recently and before, it may wind up being an issue for the catch and eat species. I talked to a crappie guide the past fall @ Rainswood on Fork and he had it on his pontoon boat which is what he used for his guiding service. He had a love/hate relationship with FFS. He loved it because he could get clients on fish a lot easier, at least at the beginning when he started using it. The hate part is now everyone else is using it and most of his holes no longer have fish on them.

So you would have been happier to have paid $500 and caught ZERO fish, makes sense.

Crappie, Catfish, and Bass should all have a keep limit of 5 (according to length) fish per person per day.
Bass is already 5,...sounds fair..

So that darn scope helped you catch fish. Isn't that the point? It's not like we are running out of fish.

Outlawing would be impossible due to the ensuing law suits:

1) Garmin would damn sure be hiring lawyers
2) Every FFS owner would demand their money back.

That 100% is your complaint. Don't matter if you read it one syllable a minute. Same conclusion. You caught fish you otherwise wouldn't have you think so it should be outlawed. That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Take up knitting or something.

So you are saying you don’t own one and have less than a few hours of time using one.

For crappie and using it in down view, I agree it is pretty easy to catch them. For other species, not even close! Forward view is the hardest to use…effectively. The the chances of putting the bait within a few feet of the fish gets higher with hours and hours of practice. It requires far for skill than having a guide bait your hook for you so you can drop it 8ft down into a wad of crappie till one eats the minnow. So…in the hands of someone that has put in a LOT of time to learn it, it can be a real advantage. To the average angler, it’s a distraction. I am on my second complete setup on the same boat. I am finally beginning to get good enough that I can tell a fishes species, approximate size, and distance and depth. This has take several years of use to get myself to this level. Even then, for bass fishing, it is definitely not the fish slaying device you experienced with your crappie guide. I’d venture to say that if you had not paid to be put in fish, and went out and bought a boat, lives scope setup, and went out fishing….you’d still be trying to catch that same limit with those conditions. Haha. The GUIDE made you feel like a hero. You’re not. Neither is Livescope.

Like posted above, the cone of information shown on the screen gets much wider and cluttered with distance. So much so, that the 2D image on the screen is a hindrance to the average angler. It seriously takes a lot of time to learn how to use the gear.

Do I think they should ban it? I honestly couldn’t care either way. I fish tournaments 99% of the time I fish. If I can’t have it, nobody else better have it. If I can have it, I will…and I’ll use it to the best of my ability to help me win. It’s part of the game now. The big debate is not the technology. The real issue most have with it is the advantage it gives and angler vs its costs. The secondary issue people have is it ISNT automatic, so the ones that bought the gear feel like they got [censored] because it didnt make them better anglers. Haha.

Ban Livescope. Just don’t ban Active Target.

It is already outlawed in other states, and they are currently doing a study in Texas.

Where is it outlawed? I think you’re talking out of your rear.

Finally a thought provoking reply. Thank you, sir.

^^^^ you’re welcome. I love the gear, and I HATE THE GEAR….if that makes sense. ^^^^

It’s NOT outlawed anywhere. It can’t be shipped to some countries FROM the US, but other countries can still get it and use it through other means.

Did you make that up or read it on the internet. Either way you don’t know what you’re talking about

Can you share with us where you got these "facts"? I sure wouldn't want to violate the law in those states if I fished there. Furthermore, who in Texas is conducting this study that you claim is currently underway? I would like to contact them to verify that what you are saying is a fact and not a supposition on your part.

I'll wait for your response with baited breath.

Not yet. We are better off maintaining the numbers we have rather than decimating the population and then attempting to rebuild it. Modern fishing technology just about wiped out the whales before regulations and laws to could catch up, and they still havnt recovered. Intelligent people learn from their mistakes. Fools and the insane repeat past behaviors and expect a different result.

Was told in person at Lake Athens by two Game Wardens who were doing a study for TPWD . I think you need to grow up and keep ignorant remarks to yourself.

Definition of ignorant: “Lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.”
Example of ignorance: Telling people that FFS is “outlawed in other states”, is ignorant, due to not knowing what you’re talking about.

I don’t believe it should be allowed in tournaments. More and more the fishing industry is focusing on the elite fisherman. The average fisherman fishes without a $85,000 brand new boat, shirts and boats plastered with logos and a boat deck littered with 2 dozen high end rod and reels. Livescope pushes past the sonars the majority of the depth finders most of us have in our boats.

They misinformed you.

Two gentlemen from TPWD told me in person . Do you only know how to talk out of your rear.

I’m going to go ahead and assume you’re over 60 and dense in the head. Two people at Fork probably told you that “some states are doing studies to see if it needs banned”. They did NOT tell you that it’s banned in several states. Now if you want to prove me wrong, I’d love for you to do some google searching and show me where it’s banned.

Frantically searching Google

I don't have it yet but I've been around it enough to know it don't work this way at all and the way technology is developing in another 5 years or so FFS will be obsolete.

Lol how did I miss this little thread. So much stupidity posted by people who know nothing about it other than what some brothers cousins uncle told them. You just can't make this stuff up. Lolz

move on,..

Clickbait title if there ever was one

I knew someone would go with that link, they finally got me



Link to the “12 states banning Livescope”. https://www.wired2fish.com/april-fools-page

It was early and the caffeine hadn't kicked in yet

New guy here. I am tech person, but will say the only thing that bugs me about the FFS stuff is I like watching the tournaments. But it gets tiresome watching a guy standing on the front of the boat staring down at a screen and most of the time never looks up as he casts. I mean I am guilty of looking down at my phone while driving my boat but I am only doing 8 to 10 mph.

P.S Its a Tugboat I am a Tugboat Capt. lol

Valid complaint.

In the tournament crappie world if they banned livescope everybody would go back to spider rigging 16' rods and double minnow rigs! I'd rather watch paint dry than push a school of minnows through the lake!

I got a livescope and now I just spend all day flipping 12 pounders over side. Give me a break.

thats sad imo.

NOPE!