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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: Mark Perry] #14832340 09/08/23 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Perry
Originally Posted by patriot07
Eli was a great combination of lucky and mediocre.

He was just clutch in 2 particular playoff runs, and happened to have great defenses and running games for both.

Dak doesn't have 4 straight games of limited turnovers in his playbook, so I don't see how he's got any chance to win a SB. He's just not that good. And you can't win super bowls with turnover-prone QBs



You gotta get out more or at least watch some games. Last season is the only season ge has had turnover issues. That is not opinion it's fact. Look it up. Stop making up stuff, do some research.... roflmao

Well here's my research - he's got 5 INTs in 6 playoff games. Out of 6 games, he's only had 2 he didn't throw a pick in. Eli had 3 each postseason in the 2 SBs he won.

Even if Dak's had some good regular season football (see below to decide if that's even true), he has never been clutch in the playoffs at all. He's had one really good playoff game out of 6. Is it possible it all turns around? Of course. Anything is possible. Brock Purdy was in the NFC Championship last year. But it's not at all likely according to my opinion or the facts.

Here's another stat for you - only 2 times in 7 years has Dak had 24+ passing TDs and less than 15 INTs. Twice in 7 years...and that includes several years with a leading rusher, elite OL, and high-end WRs.

12 NFL QBs did that last season, more than a third of the league, very few of which have the skill players or OL Dak has played with most of his career.

He's just not all that good, and I'm not sure why cowboys fans can't see it.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: fivebites] #14832342 09/08/23 04:50 AM
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I think Dak and the Cowboys will do well this year. Tonight's game was a classic example of a team with a top tier QB not having any top receivers and an unproven defense. Taking nothing away from the Lions who had a great game but Mahomes looked bad because of lack of surrounding talent. Dak has all the tools to succeed this year. The only weak spot is the running game and that may well prove to be false. It would not be shocking to see the Cowboys in the Superbowl this year. Just my opinion.

Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: patriot07] #14832346 09/08/23 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by Mark Perry
Originally Posted by patriot07
Eli was a great combination of lucky and mediocre.

He was just clutch in 2 particular playoff runs, and happened to have great defenses and running games for both.

Dak doesn't have 4 straight games of limited turnovers in his playbook, so I don't see how he's got any chance to win a SB. He's just not that good. And you can't win super bowls with turnover-prone QBs



You gotta get out more or at least watch some games. Last season is the only season ge has had turnover issues. That is not opinion it's fact. Look it up. Stop making up stuff, do some research.... roflmao

Well here's my research - he's got 5 INTs in 6 playoff games. Out of 6 games, he's only had 2 he didn't throw a pick in. Eli had 3 each postseason in the 2 SBs he won.

Even if Dak's had some good regular season football (see below to decide if that's even true), he has never been clutch in the playoffs at all. He's had one really good playoff game out of 6. Is it possible it all turns around? Of course. Anything is possible. Brock Purdy was in the NFC Championship last year. But it's not at all likely according to my opinion or the facts.

Here's another stat for you - only 2 times in 7 years has Dak had 24+ passing TDs and less than 15 INTs. Twice in 7 years...and that includes several years with a leading rusher, elite OL, and high-end WRs.

12 NFL QBs did that last season, more than a third of the league, very few of which have the skill players or OL Dak has played with most of his career.

He's just not all that good, and I'm not sure why cowboys fans can't see it.




Once again, you are just throwing out stuff to see what sticks. He threw 15 INTs one time. Just once. Yourcstats make zero sense. Do you realize Dak is 9th ALL TIME best NFL TD to INT ratio?

Do you realize that Dak is 11th ALL TIME in the NFL for most TD passes in first 5 years of career?

He might not be elite but let's not pretend he is a spare either. Some of your Cowboys hot takes are out there. It's like you don't even watch the games.

Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: Mark Perry] #14832419 09/08/23 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Perry

Once again, you are just throwing out stuff to see what sticks. He threw 15 INTs one time. Just once. Yourcstats make zero sense. Do you realize Dak is 9th ALL TIME best NFL TD to INT ratio?

Do you realize that Dak is 11th ALL TIME in the NFL for most TD passes in first 5 years of career?

He might not be elite but let's not pretend he is a spare either. Some of your Cowboys hot takes are out there. It's like you don't even watch the games.

I'm not saying Dak is a spare. I am saying you can't win a super bowl with him unless he stops choking in big moments and throwing the ball to the other team.

Dak's first few years were good. They were very good for being a rookie, but not for a generic NFL QB. Again, he's had 25 TDs and less than 15 INTs twice in 7 seasons. 12 QBs had that last season...over a third of the league. 9 the year before, 18 the year before that, 13 the year before that, 12 the year before that. Essentially the top 40% of QBs each year are doing it, and Dak (more often than not) doesn't. He's around 50th percentile NFL QB.

The team around him this year is so good that maybe they can win a SB if he can stop throwing INTs. But I still think you'd have a better shot with a game manager who threw a few less TDs and a lot less INTs. Trent Dilfer or Eli could win in the playoffs with this team. Dak has never proven that he can.

ETA: Dak is a fine QB. My problem is he asked for top-tier QB money and got it, and it cost the rest of the team in terms of talent. It was a stupid move by Jerry when he could have franchised him and when he started doing stuff like last year we wouldn't feel forced to keep him due to the salary cap impact of bad decisions. And cowboys homers support the contract because the blue tint on their sunglasses is too strong. My other issue is he doesn't have the respect of his teammates. I never hear of defenses publicly hating on Mahomes, Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc. the way they hate on Dak. They know he's been a problem...so why are we talking about extending him? Let's move on and at least try somebody else - it's why I liked the Lance trade - at least gotta start considering alternatives. Maybe he won't work out, but if we'd done this years ago we'd be a lot further along in finding his successor.

Last edited by patriot07; 09/08/23 12:09 PM.

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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: D.O.C.989] #14832422 09/08/23 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by D.O.C.989
I think Dak and the Cowboys will do well this year. Tonight's game was a classic example of a team with a top tier QB not having any top receivers and an unproven defense. Taking nothing away from the Lions who had a great game but Mahomes looked bad because of lack of surrounding talent. Dak has all the tools to succeed this year. The only weak spot is the running game and that may well prove to be false. It would not be shocking to see the Cowboys in the Superbowl this year. Just my opinion.

Mahomes looked fine. He had a pick 6 that went through his receivers hands and multiple drops in the last couple drives that could have won them the game. The chiefs just looked like they were missing their top WR and top defensive player, and the Lions capitalized on a couple of mistakes.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: patriot07] #14832500 09/08/23 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by D.O.C.989
I think Dak and the Cowboys will do well this year. Tonight's game was a classic example of a team with a top tier QB not having any top receivers and an unproven defense. Taking nothing away from the Lions who had a great game but Mahomes looked bad because of lack of surrounding talent. Dak has all the tools to succeed this year. The only weak spot is the running game and that may well prove to be false. It would not be shocking to see the Cowboys in the Superbowl this year. Just my opinion.

Mahomes looked fine. He had a pick 6 that went through his receivers hands and multiple drops in the last couple drives that could have won them the game. The chiefs just looked like they were missing their top WR and top defensive player, and the Lions capitalized on a couple of mistakes.



Dayyyum that sounds like some of Dak’s int’s last year. The only year he threw so many int’s.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: Coach Hark] #14832506 09/08/23 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Coach Hark
Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by D.O.C.989
I think Dak and the Cowboys will do well this year. Tonight's game was a classic example of a team with a top tier QB not having any top receivers and an unproven defense. Taking nothing away from the Lions who had a great game but Mahomes looked bad because of lack of surrounding talent. Dak has all the tools to succeed this year. The only weak spot is the running game and that may well prove to be false. It would not be shocking to see the Cowboys in the Superbowl this year. Just my opinion.

Mahomes looked fine. He had a pick 6 that went through his receivers hands and multiple drops in the last couple drives that could have won them the game. The chiefs just looked like they were missing their top WR and top defensive player, and the Lions capitalized on a couple of mistakes.



Dayyyum that sounds like some of Dak’s int’s last year. The only year he threw so many int’s.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: patriot07] #14832548 09/08/23 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by patriot07

I'm not saying Dak is a spare. I am saying you can't win a super bowl with him unless he stops choking in big moments and throwing the ball to the other team.

Dak's first few years were good. They were very good for being a rookie, but not for a generic NFL QB. Again, he's had 25 TDs and less than 15 INTs twice in 7 seasons. 12 QBs had that last season...over a third of the league. 9 the year before, 18 the year before that, 13 the year before that, 12 the year before that. Essentially the top 40% of QBs each year are doing it, and Dak (more often than not) doesn't. He's around 50th percentile NFL QB.

The team around him this year is so good that maybe they can win a SB if he can stop throwing INTs. But I still think you'd have a better shot with a game manager who threw a few less TDs and a lot less INTs. Trent Dilfer or Eli could win in the playoffs with this team. Dak has never proven that he can.

ETA: Dak is a fine QB. My problem is he asked for top-tier QB money and got it, and it cost the rest of the team in terms of talent. It was a stupid move by Jerry when he could have franchised him and when he started doing stuff like last year we wouldn't feel forced to keep him due to the salary cap impact of bad decisions. And cowboys homers support the contract because the blue tint on their sunglasses is too strong. My other issue is he doesn't have the respect of his teammates. I never hear of defenses publicly hating on Mahomes, Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc. the way they hate on Dak. They know he's been a problem...so why are we talking about extending him? Let's move on and at least try somebody else - it's why I liked the Lance trade - at least gotta start considering alternatives. Maybe he won't work out, but if we'd done this years ago we'd be a lot further along in finding his successor.


Dak is not a spare, he's good and not great. Most NFL "experts"/observers rank hin at 8th or 9th best QB's in the League. There's tons of articles out there saying as much. He's the 7th highest paid QB. I'd say he's paid pretty close to his ranking.

SOURCE


Last Updated: September 7, 2023

Based on total cash salary as noted by Spotrac.

RANK PLAYER TEAM 2023 SALARY
1 Lamar Jackson Ravens $80M

t-2 Daniel Jones Giants $46M

t-2 Deshaun Watson Browns $46M

4 Patrick Mahomes Chiefs $40.45M

5 Kyler Murray Cardinals $39M

6 Aaron Rodgers Jets $36.89M

7 Dak Prescott Cowboys $31M

t-8 Derek Carr Saints $30M

t-8 Kirk Cousins Vikings $30M

t-10 Josh Allen Bills $28M (Came into the NFL in 2018 and has 60 int's

t-10 Russell Wilson Broncos $28M


And you can bet Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are moving up that list VERY soon. In fact I don't know why Herbert isn't showing up on that current list I posted. He signed a new contract in July and will make $52.5M this year (very little playoff success in fact lost his only playoff game.) Trevor Lawrence is another that will get a huge contract (and is an interception machine himself).


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: Happykamper] #14832575 09/08/23 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Happykamper
Originally Posted by Coach Hark
Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by D.O.C.989
I think Dak and the Cowboys will do well this year. Tonight's game was a classic example of a team with a top tier QB not having any top receivers and an unproven defense. Taking nothing away from the Lions who had a great game but Mahomes looked bad because of lack of surrounding talent. Dak has all the tools to succeed this year. The only weak spot is the running game and that may well prove to be false. It would not be shocking to see the Cowboys in the Superbowl this year. Just my opinion.

Mahomes looked fine. He had a pick 6 that went through his receivers hands and multiple drops in the last couple drives that could have won them the game. The chiefs just looked like they were missing their top WR and top defensive player, and the Lions capitalized on a couple of mistakes.



Dayyyum that sounds like some of Dak’s int’s last year. The only year he threw so many int’s.


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Yall giving me a hard time about doing research? Look at these 17 picks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h_JuAnf3RY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYIaWfvgxoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Q4gUhtCf8

Of the 17, exactly 1 of them was an accurate throw to an open receiver. The other 16 were either bad throws to open receivers or ill-advised throws to covered receivers.

"The only year he threw so many INTs"

Well he's only had 2 years where he threw a bunch of TDs. He's thrown 24 or more TDs twice...that's it. He's not some kind of wonderfully prolific passer that's worth the $40M+ they're paying him. And he's certainly not worth extending and making the problem worse. I'm fine if he wants to throw 22 TDs and 8 INTs. We can win with that. But he hasn't done that in a while, and that performance isn't worth $40M


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: RayBob] #14832581 09/08/23 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RayBob
Originally Posted by patriot07

I'm not saying Dak is a spare. I am saying you can't win a super bowl with him unless he stops choking in big moments and throwing the ball to the other team.

Dak's first few years were good. They were very good for being a rookie, but not for a generic NFL QB. Again, he's had 25 TDs and less than 15 INTs twice in 7 seasons. 12 QBs had that last season...over a third of the league. 9 the year before, 18 the year before that, 13 the year before that, 12 the year before that. Essentially the top 40% of QBs each year are doing it, and Dak (more often than not) doesn't. He's around 50th percentile NFL QB.

The team around him this year is so good that maybe they can win a SB if he can stop throwing INTs. But I still think you'd have a better shot with a game manager who threw a few less TDs and a lot less INTs. Trent Dilfer or Eli could win in the playoffs with this team. Dak has never proven that he can.

ETA: Dak is a fine QB. My problem is he asked for top-tier QB money and got it, and it cost the rest of the team in terms of talent. It was a stupid move by Jerry when he could have franchised him and when he started doing stuff like last year we wouldn't feel forced to keep him due to the salary cap impact of bad decisions. And cowboys homers support the contract because the blue tint on their sunglasses is too strong. My other issue is he doesn't have the respect of his teammates. I never hear of defenses publicly hating on Mahomes, Brady, Peyton, Brees, etc. the way they hate on Dak. They know he's been a problem...so why are we talking about extending him? Let's move on and at least try somebody else - it's why I liked the Lance trade - at least gotta start considering alternatives. Maybe he won't work out, but if we'd done this years ago we'd be a lot further along in finding his successor.


Dak is not a spare, he's good and not great. Most NFL "experts"/observers rank hin at 8th or 9th best QB's in the League. There's tons of articles out there saying as much. He's the 7th highest paid QB. I'd say he's paid pretty close to his ranking.

SOURCE


Last Updated: September 7, 2023

Based on total cash salary as noted by Spotrac.

RANK PLAYER TEAM 2023 SALARY
1 Lamar Jackson Ravens $80M

t-2 Daniel Jones Giants $46M

t-2 Deshaun Watson Browns $46M

4 Patrick Mahomes Chiefs $40.45M

5 Kyler Murray Cardinals $39M

6 Aaron Rodgers Jets $36.89M

7 Dak Prescott Cowboys $31M

t-8 Derek Carr Saints $30M

t-8 Kirk Cousins Vikings $30M

t-10 Josh Allen Bills $28M (Came into the NFL in 2018 and has 60 int's

t-10 Russell Wilson Broncos $28M


And you can bet Josh Allen and Justin Herbert are moving up that list VERY soon. In fact I don't know why Herbert isn't showing up on that current list I posted. He signed a new contract in July and will make $52.5M this year (very little playoff success in fact lost his only playoff game.) Trevor Lawrence is another that will get a huge contract (and is an interception machine himself).




He wasn't 7th highest when he signed the contract. At the time he signed it, he became the 2nd highest paid player in the NFL. And they just restructured him so his salary next year is like $50M-$60M - which would be #2 on the list. I can't remember his exact number for next year. You can't just look at this year, because they dropped him so they could kick the can down the road again.

Yeah I wouldn't give Lawrence a huge contract either - why these owners aren't tagging these guys after their rookie contracts is beyond me. QB is the case study for a franchise tag.

And to be fair, look at the rest of that list...Mahomes and Rodgers are the only ones with a super bowl. The rest of them are mostly bad contracts like Dak's or contracts for young guys that have potential to be top 5 NFL QBs for a long time. Dak isn't young and isn't top 5.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: fivebites] #14832601 09/08/23 04:07 PM
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In the NFC, who do you want instead of Dak? Maybe Hurts? Who else?








Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: tricky] #14832632 09/08/23 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tricky
In the NFC, who do you want instead of Dak? Maybe Hurts? Who else?

Hurts, Goff, Geno Smith, and Cousins all played more games and had less picks and more TDs...and that's in the conference with no QBs.

AFC - Mahomes, Burrow, Rodgers, Allen, Jackson, Tua, Herbert, Lawrence...that's just off the top of my head and I don't see any of it as even debatable. Dak will hopefully be better than at least a couple of those this year, but which ones would you take behind Dak right now? Tough to put money on it IMHO

Maybe Dak will be awesome? He's had 2 outstanding seasons, maybe this will be his 3rd. But the odds are against it and Jerry has bet a very talented franchise on it when he didn't have to.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: patriot07] #14832721 09/08/23 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by tricky
In the NFC, who do you want instead of Dak? Maybe Hurts? Who else?

Hurts, Goff, Geno Smith, and Cousins all played more games and had less picks and more TDs...and that's in the conference with no QBs.

AFC - Mahomes, Burrow, Rodgers, Allen, Jackson, Tua, Herbert, Lawrence...that's just off the top of my head and I don't see any of it as even debatable. Dak will hopefully be better than at least a couple of those this year, but which ones would you take behind Dak right now? Tough to put money on it IMHO

Maybe Dak will be awesome? He's had 2 outstanding seasons, maybe this will be his 3rd. But the odds are against it and Jerry has bet a very talented franchise on it when he didn't have to.


Telling us you’d take Geno Smith, Jared Goff and Kirk Cousins is enough to tell me you have no damn clue. You can’t argue with stupidity.


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Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: fivebites] #14832729 09/08/23 07:16 PM
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I didn't read all the comments. Just the what the OP posted. They can win with Dak. But the line is still suspect. A trade for a beast on the line wouldn't bother me. Depending on the terms. I've said for a couple of years. Dak is skittish now. With great protection he could get over that. He didn't start off that way. He used to shake stuff off pretty quick. If not this year. It will just get worse. No more Moore. His excuses are up.
I think Duece will run wild. Sounds like Cooks and Dak have some chemistry. CeeDee will get his yards. Very little faith left in Gallup.
The defense starts with Micah. He has enough around him in support, teams can't just ignore the other players. Micah is going to win one on one's the majority of the time. He will cause his chaos. Trading him would be a mistake. I'm most concerned about the corner back position. It seems like every time.they get two really good corners. One always goes down for the season. If both stay healthy. That defense could go down as one of the best. Considering all the talent in front of them.
Find a lineman trade for Gallup would be ideal in my opinion.

Re: thinking of Cowboy possiblilities today [Re: fivebites] #14832743 09/08/23 07:35 PM
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The Giants are starting 2 rookie CB's ..... it SHOULD be a blood bath....they are also suspect on the O line, including a rookie center...11 should wreck them....if these things don't happen, I will be spewing hate all next week


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