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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Happykamper]
#14813468
08/16/23 07:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,006
Chris G
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,006 |
The valuation was set in June when the purchased was closed on by Todd. Todd is trying to extract FUTURE value from the eminent domain process which doesn't work that way. Todd is definitely not the bad guy in this from what I can see but when it comes to how this process works, its very clear how the valuation is done. And the "willing seller" thing has never really applied to 100% of any case of ED that I can recall. So if you owned a piece of property and an oil company discovered that you had a huge pool of oil under your property, would you be ok with the state taking your property without paying you for the oil ? If what Todd is saying is true then the water rights alone are worth way the hell more than what he paid for the property. Anyway I hope they save the park somehow but I think Todd should be able to make his money. That exact narrative doesn't work. If the oil deposit can be confirmed a value can be placed on it despite its not being drilled and produced. The only value they could give for the water rights in an ED case is the amount of water in the lake today and that would never be 100% of it. And make no mistake I have no beef on either side here. Both side have merits and If I was even in the galaxy of blaming someone it might be Vistra. I agree with you I hope they find some middle ground that appeals to all sides but I am fairly certain that is not going to happen unless Todd caves somehow which they aren't showing any signs of doing at this point. In that case, they will lose it all. Again, ED is kind of like pu$$y, its undefeated.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Chris G]
#14813489
08/16/23 07:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,084
Happykamper
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,084 |
The valuation was set in June when the purchased was closed on by Todd. Todd is trying to extract FUTURE value from the eminent domain process which doesn't work that way. Todd is definitely not the bad guy in this from what I can see but when it comes to how this process works, its very clear how the valuation is done. And the "willing seller" thing has never really applied to 100% of any case of ED that I can recall. So if you owned a piece of property and an oil company discovered that you had a huge pool of oil under your property, would you be ok with the state taking your property without paying you for the oil ? If what Todd is saying is true then the water rights alone are worth way the hell more than what he paid for the property. Anyway I hope they save the park somehow but I think Todd should be able to make his money. That exact narrative doesn't work. If the oil deposit can be confirmed a value can be placed on it despite its not being drilled and produced. The only value they could give for the water rights in an ED case is the amount of water in the lake today and that would never be 100% of it. And make no mistake I have no beef on either side here. Both side have merits and If I was even in the galaxy of blaming someone it might be Vistra. I agree with you I hope they find some middle ground that appeals to all sides but I am fairly certain that is not going to happen unless Todd caves somehow which they aren't showing any signs of doing at this point. In that case, they will lose it all. Again, ED is kind of like pu$$y, its undefeated. I do not believe Todd thinks there is anyway they will lose, if he felt that way he would have taken the 25M and moved on. From what I have read TPWD does not have anywhere near enough money to buy the property, if they receive the money from the " fund " the land has to be purchased from willing sellers, at least that is what I think I read. I am like you too, I do not have a dog in this derby, just pointing out how stupid TPWD has been from the get go. I hope they resolve it soon so people can go fishing or just go on their way.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Happykamper]
#14813549
08/16/23 09:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,512
Razorback
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,512 |
The valuation was set in June when the purchased was closed on by Todd. Todd is trying to extract FUTURE value from the eminent domain process which doesn't work that way. Todd is definitely not the bad guy in this from what I can see but when it comes to how this process works, its very clear how the valuation is done. And the "willing seller" thing has never really applied to 100% of any case of ED that I can recall. So if you owned a piece of property and an oil company discovered that you had a huge pool of oil under your property, would you be ok with the state taking your property without paying you for the oil ? If what Todd is saying is true then the water rights alone are worth way the hell more than what he paid for the property. Anyway I hope they save the park somehow but I think Todd should be able to make his money. The water wasn't discovered after Todd bought the property. It was there all along. I know because I launched my boat into it.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: RPD]
#14813579
08/16/23 09:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43,051
butch sanders
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43,051 |
so he bought the lake also? man i don't know about selling water you have to draw a line somewhere
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Razorback]
#14813627
08/16/23 10:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,084
Happykamper
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,084 |
The valuation was set in June when the purchased was closed on by Todd. Todd is trying to extract FUTURE value from the eminent domain process which doesn't work that way. Todd is definitely not the bad guy in this from what I can see but when it comes to how this process works, its very clear how the valuation is done. And the "willing seller" thing has never really applied to 100% of any case of ED that I can recall. So if you owned a piece of property and an oil company discovered that you had a huge pool of oil under your property, would you be ok with the state taking your property without paying you for the oil ? If what Todd is saying is true then the water rights alone are worth way the hell more than what he paid for the property. Anyway I hope they save the park somehow but I think Todd should be able to make his money. The water wasn't discovered after Todd bought the property. It was there all along. I know because I launched my boat into it. so was the oil lol.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Razorback]
#14813629
08/16/23 10:08 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 43,164
WAWI
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 43,164 |
The valuation was set in June when the purchased was closed on by Todd. Todd is trying to extract FUTURE value from the eminent domain process which doesn't work that way. Todd is definitely not the bad guy in this from what I can see but when it comes to how this process works, its very clear how the valuation is done. And the "willing seller" thing has never really applied to 100% of any case of ED that I can recall. So if you owned a piece of property and an oil company discovered that you had a huge pool of oil under your property, would you be ok with the state taking your property without paying you for the oil ? If what Todd is saying is true then the water rights alone are worth way the hell more than what he paid for the property. Anyway I hope they save the park somehow but I think Todd should be able to make his money. The water wasn't discovered after Todd bought the property. It was there all along. I know because I launched my boat into it. Hopefully you took pics of it so you will always have memories
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: WAWI]
#14813708
08/16/23 11:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 25,581
SteezMacQueen
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 25,581 |
The valuation was set in June when the purchased was closed on by Todd. Todd is trying to extract FUTURE value from the eminent domain process which doesn't work that way. Todd is definitely not the bad guy in this from what I can see but when it comes to how this process works, its very clear how the valuation is done. And the "willing seller" thing has never really applied to 100% of any case of ED that I can recall. So if you owned a piece of property and an oil company discovered that you had a huge pool of oil under your property, would you be ok with the state taking your property without paying you for the oil ? If what Todd is saying is true then the water rights alone are worth way the hell more than what he paid for the property. Anyway I hope they save the park somehow but I think Todd should be able to make his money. The water wasn't discovered after Todd bought the property. It was there all along. I know because I launched my boat into it. Hopefully you took pics of it so you will always have memories
Eat. Sleep. Fish.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: RPD]
#14814073
08/17/23 05:27 AM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 977
Greg W
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 977 |
I didn't think under current rules they could sell the water out of Freestone county anyway. You can't say something has value unless the laws even support it. Assuming you can get that changed is an assumption, and we all know what those do. I just hope it's settled by Oct one way or another. Fishing would be fantastic if it stays a state park.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Nathan Bass]
#14814213
08/17/23 01:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 30,246
Duck_Hunter
house cleaner
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house cleaner
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 30,246 |
Allison, you are correct. Years of lawsuits and court battles would ultimately resolve it, just like a super nasty divorce and custody battle. Unfortunately for Todd, he has a 92 million dollar mortgage to pay each month. His "Freestone" development is totally dependent on marketability. A "Superfund site" is not exactly a desirable place to retire or build a 5 million dollar mansion on ....lol. My "clueless" opinion is the State has nothing to lose and still holds all the cards. I believe the Chinese referred to it as a death by a thousand cuts.....
But who knows..... Maybe Todd will pull a rabbit out of his hat and be the first guy in history to beat the government?
The state loses all the time. This is a great example. https://freetogether.org/2018/06/charlies-story/
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#14814304
08/17/23 02:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,006
Chris G
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,006 |
Allison, you are correct. Years of lawsuits and court battles would ultimately resolve it, just like a super nasty divorce and custody battle. Unfortunately for Todd, he has a 92 million dollar mortgage to pay each month. His "Freestone" development is totally dependent on marketability. A "Superfund site" is not exactly a desirable place to retire or build a 5 million dollar mansion on ....lol. My "clueless" opinion is the State has nothing to lose and still holds all the cards. I believe the Chinese referred to it as a death by a thousand cuts.....
But who knows..... Maybe Todd will pull a rabbit out of his hat and be the first guy in history to beat the government?
The state loses all the time. This is a great example. https://freetogether.org/2018/06/charlies-story/That's a New Jersey case. That state may as well be a 3rd world country compared to Texas.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Duck_Hunter]
#14814314
08/17/23 02:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 977
Greg W
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 977 |
[quote=Nathan Bass]Allison, you are correct. Years of lawsuits and court battles would ultimately resolve it, just like a super nasty divorce and custody battle. Unfortunately for Todd, he has a 92 million dollar mortgage to pay each month. His "Freestone" development is totally dependent on marketability. A "Superfund site" is not exactly a desirable place to retire or build a 5 million dollar mansion on ....lol. My "clueless" opinion is the State has nothing to lose and still holds all the cards. I believe the Chinese referred to it as a death by a thousand cuts.....
But who knows..... Maybe Todd will pull a rabbit out of his hat and be the first guy in history to beat the government?
Here's another thing I've never understood. We all know 1/2 that lake is unusable as a pleasure boating lake. there are stumps everywhere and much of it's under 6' deep. So if Todd drains the lake back (first you have to have a way to get that water out, change the current rules, and get someone to buy it). Then the lake is forever dramatically changed. Even if I wasn't a fisherman would I want a multi-million dollar house built on a lake that small? The whole project just has never made sense to me. If you leave the lake as is, you gotta clear thousands of underwater stumps but more he doesn't have the funds he thinks. he has. I don't know this thing has just never made a lick to sense to me short of buy the lake and continually sell off the water if you think the water rights are more than the purchase price. Than use the development as a smoke screen.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: RPD]
#14814421
08/17/23 03:49 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 43,318
CCTX
mapquest
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mapquest
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 43,318 |
McMansion dwellers love to look across the water first thing in the morning to see a dismantled glistening power plant and electrical lines running everywhere.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: RPD]
#14814541
08/17/23 05:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,512
Razorback
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 13,512 |
Todd money vs. State of Texas money and power reminds me of the PGA Tour's wealth vs. Saudi money. There was no way the PGA Tour was going to win a spending war with Saudi Arabia. Hence, LIV Golf basically owns the PGA Tour now.
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: Razorback]
#14814596
08/17/23 05:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,536
pchapin
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 1,536 |
Todd money vs. State of Texas money and power reminds me of the PGA Tour's wealth vs. Saudi money. There was no way the PGA Tour was going to win a spending war with Saudi Arabia. Hence, LIV Golf basically owns the PGA Tour now. To this point the state has not appropriated any money for obtaining park land through condemnation. The legislature does not meet again until 2025. Last session they were unable to pass legislation to make Todd go through two state agencies to change the water permit for Fairfield Lake. What are the chances they will call a special session to appropriate the necessary funding?
“No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact” P01135809
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Re: FAIRFIELD, things are about to get interesting
[Re: pchapin]
#14814616
08/17/23 06:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 977
Greg W
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 977 |
Todd money vs. State of Texas money and power reminds me of the PGA Tour's wealth vs. Saudi money. There was no way the PGA Tour was going to win a spending war with Saudi Arabia. Hence, LIV Golf basically owns the PGA Tour now. To this point the state has not appropriated any money for obtaining park land through condemnation. The legislature does not meet again until 2025. Last session they were unable to pass legislation to make Todd go through two state agencies to change the water permit for Fairfield Lake. What are the chances they will call a special session to appropriate the necessary funding? No chance. But do you know what Todd has to do to change the water permit as the rules stand today? I've never seen that written up in any articles I've seen. Does he just need to get Freestone County to change their permit or is it more complicated than that?
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