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What line,size and knots, hooks also #14483107 09/20/22 05:26 PM
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Rowdy Online Content OP
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Guys,
Let's start this topic of what I think is darn sure important. Now I have found on the forum different area's where my rod topic should go, as well as this one. Guess I should ask if I should tack it there instead of here? I really found over months of trolling this place as well as the others and buying a lot of stuff off the forsale categories, heck even my boat; I found and bought off here.
But recently I have been committing in a couple of places and still find myself coming back here. More diversified guy here that seem to fit me better far as the types of fishing and how to's.

I want to talk about the different lines, if braid down under mono or whatever, the knots you attach the line to lines as well as leaders to terminal tackle and rigging of the tackle...Now all that alone is a bunch to think of itself, but all very specific, might even be different if your at the house or the dock, vs the water fishing!

The sizes of the different lines and the types of hooks and size of them, all this being really important if you ask me...
That is a lot to process. I even think with recent talks, what brands of planer boards as well as sizes and how you use them.
Now all this of course if you wish to Participate in this and you can post as much or little of this as you wish of course. I just like to mess with different knots, rigging of the terminal tackle. Some of this works for me and some doesn't. Everyone has their comfort zone with all this. You could even put up your stuff with more than one post on here, time does get in the way.

The size of bait at that point will vary as the size and types of fish your after. All good for this thread. Now I don't know everyone's feelings about the hijacking of the threads, I have noticed I have done this more than a few times, so you guy mention your feelings about that also please, I know I need to be more aware of this. The guys that start the threads may take offense to it, and I sure never want that. If I do, whom ever, you call me out on it and I will retract that quick.
I want this thread to be fun, interesting and informative as possible... I know you guys here in this section is spot on about these topics, if it's OK to tack it here. If so, I sure don't mind anyone hijacking it in somewhere else either... Let's share the do's and dont's, idea's and anything between. I think it will get pretty intense if you ask me. Here with you guys especially. I truly look forward to everyone's comments.!

Let'er rip guys!!!

Wet Rooster Jigs Fishing Super Store
Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483307 09/20/22 08:28 PM
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My style of fishing is easy. It requires a #4 treble hook, 20lb braided line and a Palomar knot!


Shannon Wheeler
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Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483466 09/20/22 11:52 PM
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Great subject for a thread, and hopefully useful to a few folks, especially anyone new to Catfishing.

I will put my three-penny-worth in this post, but bear in mind I only target Bluecats and am always after the bigger fish, and by that meaning anything over 10 pounds.

Line.
I use mono as I'm old and it's what I am used to. I find I get out of snags when using my baitcasters more easily as well. It will also stretch, which is both good and bad of course. I use 30 pound main line and 50 pound leader. The leaders take a bashing and I like to have more heavy duty line, and the fish dont seem to care.

Hooks.
I always use big round circle hooks, the Octopus I have linked below.
https://whiskerseeker.com/catfish-octopus-circle-hooks-offset-octo-cir/
They aint cheap but they are tough and the points are sharp and stay sharp. I use a 5/0 for smaller baits and either a 8/10 or a 10/0 for bigger cut baits, gizzard shad pieces or carp filets.

Planer Boards (for trolling/drifting).
These boards enable you to put lines out behind the boat and cover more ground. I use two brands, the first ones I purchased are Zakk Royce boards linked below.
https://bottomdwellerstackle.com/product/zakk-royces-planer-boards/
They work well and better in a blow when they 'swing out ' more, but I changed out the connections at each end, very much personal preference though.

The second ones I purchased are the Rock Creek brand, and they are bigger and work better in light winds or when using using the trolling motor (I cant find the url link).

I use 'slinky weights'. These are long thin weights that flex/bend to to reduce the risk of snagging on the bottom, and I have found that 2-3oz ones work best for trolling at 0.5 to 0.8mph. I purchased some pre made, but have since made my own using small lead weights, swivels and heat shrink plastic. They are really cheap and work just as well imo.
https://www.dalestackle.com/product-page/partners-in-slime-drifting-weights

I also use ball ball bearing swivels and floats at the end of the leader (about 6 inches up from the hook) to keep the bait slightly off the bottom, and a rattle just above the float for added attraction.
https://www.cabelas.com/shop/en/betts-billy-boy-bobbers-slotted-peg-cigar-float
https://whiskerseeker.com/catfish-rig-rattles-versa-rattles/
https://whiskerseeker.com/catfish-swivels-ball-bearing/

When I either anchor up or tie to trees, normally in a creek, I use 'no roll' sinkers, and rig my leader with no planer board and no float, so a much simpler rig and the weights I use are generally 3 or 4 ounce.

www.cabelas.com/shop/en/bass-pro-shops-catmaxx-no-roll-sinkers

Last edited by Bluecat Bob; 09/21/22 03:11 AM.

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Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483645 09/21/22 04:01 AM
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Bob,
I noticed you mentioned mono all the way and then a mono leader, I get the mono thing for sure, I have lots of trouble with my braid on the spool with maybe 25-30' piece of mono on the top, then if after the bigger fish use a more heavy pound class leader off the end of that. That's not all the time but the rigs of mine will see different types of fish I will go after, so this the build off my reels. Next time out, I may be throwing artificial at bass. So all my rigs have the braid as backing, then I start from there with the different setups.

I prefer the bulk of my spools in the braid, main reason is no memory, second reason no stretch if I get spooled by bigger fish, there are times I even tie my terminal tackle straight to the braid like my rig I use to fish the cattails, that is pretty much combat fishing and have hammered the drag down tight it's just down and dirty lol.

The one really bad issue I have with the braid, is the line will dig pdown into the wraps of the spool. Big fish that fight hard and may even drag out line a little, man right at that point, like once the fish see the freaking boat, we'll then right there the next time you go to cast your line is pulled into the wraps somewhat and your cast is not at all what your expecting. If your using live bait or some sort of cut bait, the liver in the pantyhose sort of things, that line pulled down in the spool needs to be checked and delt with before casting or you can throw off your bait. That is a real irration if your not paying attention. Mono will do this also, but not even close as bad as the braid. Using artifical bait it's not a big concern unless you backlash your reel lol...

The hooks, you know when I was a kid, one of the first things I was taught was to sharpen the hooks and keep them sharp. The hooks now are sharp and as a general rule do stay sharp. Some of the hooks I think are chemical sharpened, you can really get somethings really sharp that way and cheaper and much easier. I like the one you hung up the hyperlink to. That is a good looking hook.

We are going to need to visit more on all of this, just later

Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483717 09/21/22 12:04 PM
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Bob, in texas it's "two cents worth". You should just stick to British slang..... roflmao roflmao roflmao

Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: littlewheel] #14483730 09/21/22 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by littlewheel
My style of fishing is easy. It requires a #4 treble hook, 20lb braided line and a Palomar knot!


You forgot one thing Shannon, 3000 pounds of cheese! lol


Catfish Tim
๐ŸŸ๐ŸŸ"If it doesn't have whiskers, it's just bait"๐ŸŸ๐ŸŸ
Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483731 09/21/22 12:25 PM
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Rowdy, I've got a different take than most of the guys on here when it comes to line. I've seen a lot of guys on here using 30 pound mono with 50 pound leaders. I myself prefer to use 80 pound braid for my main line and 30 pound mono for my leaders. There's two reasons I do this. First, and most importantly, I use heavy braid for my main line because there's no stretch when you get a takedown. This, in my opinion, is critical for hook-ups. My uncle showed me the difference when I was younger (basically right when the braided lines came out). Take a rod that's rigged with mono and have someone hold the rod and reel while you take out about 60 or 70 yards of line. Just have a bell sinker tied on. Then, have them "set the hook" as hard as they can. You'll barely feel the pull. Do the same with a different rod with braid and you might not be able to hold on to the sinker. Now, the other reason I use a heavier main line is in case of snags. I will lose my hook and float, but I very rarely lose my slinky weight or any of my main line. The only drawback with this theory is if you hook a really big fish and he wraps you around anything like a rock or limb, he's a goner. I have saved a few of these fish by going to the 80 pound braid. It will take a little bit of abrasion, just not much. In the past, before I learned about giant blues, I used 40 pound braid. This isn't really a problem for me in trophy season because I'm drifting open water without any snags. The only exception to this for me is the pre-spawn in the spring when I'm fishing in really shallow water with a lot of timber. I'll go full mono then.

Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483764 09/21/22 12:51 PM
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One thing I have noticed here locally is the line we use. Mono, more importantly, I have a really hard time finding just the regular mono, all anyone has here is the Fluorocarbon, which jimo is not good for everything. I found that the knots we tie in the Fluorocarbon, I have needed to pay a lot more attention to how I pull them up snug and then tighten them down. Now that has been the few brands of the Fluorocarbon I have or have had.

Another issue I have noticed that is the difference between the mono and the fluorocarbon is that the fluorocarbon sinks faster than the mono. This has only been an issue with the fly lines I tie up. There are baits I try to present on the top of the water column, I was thinking the more clear and hard fluorocarbon would be helpful to go after line shy fish with it. The leaders I make from the mono doesn't sink the fly, bug or whatever bait near as fast. This was quite disappointing when I was thinking this more clear fluorocarbon was going to be the ticket. The way this works is the nylon mono absorbs water and basically that just helps the mono just become part of the water column and it doesn't fall as fast toward the bottom. I had to do lots of reading to try and understand this issue.

The pros and cons between the mono and fluorocarbon are all there for the using one instead of the other. Fluorocarbon doesn't absorb as much water as our mono, which I have read that makes it better for ice fishing. Which I guess that would be for the line that has been wet, but now is above the water and now it's in sub-freezing Temps. I would say most of us here will not be worried about this issue so much lol, least I don't figure I will be ice fishing and worry about my line expanding from the water it absorbed lol... This mono absorbing the water is why the knots we tie in it and spit on them before pulling them up, will tie knot easier than the fluorocarbon.

There is more on the stretch of these two lines, mono does stretch more than the fluorocarbon, but fluorocarbon does stretch, it just takes more to stretch it. Now let's vet these two lines against each other in abrasion resistance. That's certainly more important for some of the fishing we do in different conditions.

Toughnessโ€”Fluorocarbon is more abrasion resistant than standard nylon monofilament of the same diameter. Plus, while the sun's harsh ultraviolet rays weaken nylon over time, fluorocarbon shrugs off UV with no ill-effects. Waterproofโ€”Unlike mono and some superlines, fluoro doesn't absorb water. Now that is a mouth full right there. I copied and pasted this from a source.

Then, we have nylon monofilament and the fluorocarbon lines and then the same two in the leader material. The lines are what we put on our reels and depend on them to cast with. The leaders are what we use for the more abrasive line and harder to chew through and/or a more heavy weight line to help these two issues as well. The leader material and either mono or the fluorocarbon is also more ridged, it wants to lay out more flat and straight. The leader is not what you want to spool your reel with, it doesn't cast well.

Now this is like the Buffet line, we can spool reels with the mono or fluorocarbon and like I do with the braid, then we can splice in the different lines that best fit our application. Sometimes what we can get lol... Availability unfortunately does get in the way, not as much as money around my house but the Availability of stuff is a real issue and more so since we shut the country down for COVID-19... You don't even want to get me started on that.

I do think we could spend ten lifetimes on tossing around with the different brands of mono, fluorocarbon and braids and while I do have a setup I made to test strengths of knots and have used it quite a bit, brands of lines I have never tested one against the other.

Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483789 09/21/22 01:18 PM
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Skeet,

I am like you with my reels spooled with braid and then I will either Palomar knot, a swivel to it for whatever else to follow, or I will splice the different mono and fluorocarbon line or leader to that, just that line is never more than 25-30' and the leaders are even shorter.

The memory in the mono and fluorocarbon is a real issue I don't like to mess with. It really makes casting bad to say the least. The slinky spring in the water trick I am not to keen on lol.

There is also just how small the braid is and how much more you can spool your reel with and a much bigger weight class vs the mono/fluorocarbon. You put 80lb mono on a reel, it's going to need to be a really big reel or you better not need more than 30 feet lol.

I also like how the braid will just sail out through the small guides of my sticks and will just reach farther distances if I need to. I will still have a mono or fluorocarbon line and/or leader to it though, but those are always short enough they don't affect my cast so much.

Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14483820 09/21/22 01:41 PM
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Alright, I'm goin in and I'm going in hard...

Rods are Mad Katz Venom 2.0 Medium Heavy. Reels are Shimano Tekota 600 HGA. Tape on the spool, no mono backer. 65 pound Reaction Tackle Braided Line. 4/0 Crane Swivel, rubber bead on top to protect the knot, sinker slide above that. The sinker slides I am using are from Bottom Dwellers. They are removable, from Rig Rap if memory serves. Main line ties to the swivel with a Palomar knot. Bottom of the swivel gets 80 pound mono leader. Length is from 18 to 48 inches. I like to vary the lengths. I have tried to find a name for the knot I use on the bottom of the swivel and I can't come up with it. I know I learned it from Team Catfish, Catfish and Carp or Steve Douglas. Had to be one of those three channels. It is a cross or combination of a uni knot and a davy knot as best as I can tell. It is easy for me to tie in the 80 pound mono and it does not give up or break. And I can cut the tag end very short so I don't get tangles with the braid. Then, on the leader I put a 2.5" or 3" cigar or oval peg float with a line rattle on top of the float. I see some guys put the rattle below the floats but I like it on top. I get them in bulk from Dales Tackle. Peg floats are from Bottom Dwellers. I use Whisker Seeker Triple Threat hooks in 8/0 and 10/0. I use a no knot snell on the circle hooks. I am looking at sole of Dales 12/0, might give them a go this winter but right now I am happy with the Whisker Seeker hooks. Very sharp and stay that way for a long time. I make my own drifting weights. I use 1/2" Expandable Braided Sleeving. The kind they use to bundle wiring in cars and trucks. I terminate the bottom of the sleeve with an electrical butt crimp and I put 3 ounces of #8 lead shot in it. Then on top I crimp on a spade connector with the hole in it to hook it on the sinker slide. I finish them off with some heat shrink tubing to add a little strength to the connections and dress it up a little. I use Parks Planer Boards. I am changing out the front and back clips. I am replacing the rear snap with a speed clip that will not let the sivel and the sinker slide go through them. I like this because I have had issues with the boards getting tangled with the terminal gear. I am going to a pressure clip on the front so when I break off, the board doesn't float away. I run six rods. Two long lines and four boards I use two large boards and two small ones. I use the small ones close in and the large ones on the outside as my widest lines. I use a 78" drift sock when the wind is up and I use the trolling motor when it's not. I try and keep the speed as close to .5 mph as I can.

Last edited by Catfish Tim; 09/21/22 01:42 PM.

Catfish Tim
๐ŸŸ๐ŸŸ"If it doesn't have whiskers, it's just bait"๐ŸŸ๐ŸŸ
Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14484426 09/21/22 10:25 PM
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Tim,
All I can say to your going in is "WOW" !!!

Freaking detailed to the 9's man, I love it. I like and also put the electric tape on the spool of the reel, then tie on the braid and spool the reel out. Nice and tight as I can. I have one of the reel spoolers Piscifun - Speedx line spoolers. They really shine with the spinning reels to keep the line from twisting. Even with the braid I don't want to start out with the line twisted. The only draw back with these is your very limited to how tight you can wrap the line, but it's OK and you can do this by yourself, even on the boat.
I have been spooled twice by really nice stripers and lost the entire length of braid right to the spool. I am lucky I guess I didn't loose the whole rig. Since then with my Sustain 2000 Shimano which was my biggest reel have recently bought A new Sustain 5000 for that fishing and a Shimano Baitrunner 6000 for live bait. These two bigger reels I have loaded over 250 yards of 50# PowerPoint braid, to the Palomar knot on the ball bearing barrel swivel, then off the bottom side of it with the different fluorocarbon 25# leader material for the artificial for stripers or whatever species , or much larger 30# and 50# fluorocarbon leader material for live or cut bait drift baits, all my fluorocarbon or mono, leader material or spool line I have found I like the Trilene knot with its double line through the swivel or hook eyes.

Now I also went on my bait casters largest size Shimano Calcutta-250 to a 400 I bought I used off this forum. Nice super clean reel. All my reels have the wrap of electric tape with a double wrapped line around the spool then into a spool knot, which is somewhat of a pita to pull up and then tighten. I use a short cut off piece of a hammer handle to pull up my knots as I hate the line cuts in my hands, the handle also works great for wrapping the line around to pull snags free.

I just love to throw artificial baits for whatever takes them, but recent neck injury has me doing more drift and trolling than days with 300-400 casts a day with artificial. Live bait flings for bass cuts the cast down a lot from 300 lol, besides the nerve damage in my neck just want allow it anymore, some days worse than others. So the rig out under my barrel swivel depends on the species and the reel sizes. All though they all get the Trilene knot...

Now my hooks range about like my reels and the fluorocarbon leader material I use. Most often I use Owner hooks of various styles and size for whatever artificial I am using to the offset circle hooks I always put more offset in before tying them on. Now I do have a few other brands of hooks that most often was from what was available lol. In 4's to 10's in size. These will get me covered from artificial to cut and live bait for freshwater.

Rods are Gloomis-GLX 7' Heavy's on down to ultra lite in the casting series and so far to date in the spinning rods they
Are GLX- 6'6" med heavy on down to ultra lite as well. I do have both casting and spinning in different lengths, I just picked these from my heavier weights I have. Dang I love talking about all this lol. Sure I have some sort of a medical condition, and since I do have another doctor appointment tomorrow I will bring this point up. lol I am sure there is a drug for it that I am not yet taking. I do chemical warfare on my body everyday as it is, with as many meds they have me on. Now you want to talk about my limited budget on my fishing, this takes the biggest bite...

Now so far all my sinkers I cast myself and I probably have 5 or 6 different styles with with all different weights up to 3oz. I have been playing around with shrink tubing and lead shot for drag weights, just have not found anything I like yet. May just have to take up Captain Tim's approach with the mesh loom with the shrink tubing to dress the ends. I certainly liked the sounds of those. I do use a smaller weight line on the sinker drag and drift lines so in hopes the sinker is the only thing snagged up, it will be the only thing lost. I have no less than 50 pounds of all sorts and sizes of sinkers on my boat and at least a 100 pounds of bulk lead at the house where my Lee lead pot and molds are waiting lol...

We still have not yet dove into the knots yet... Different sizes of the line can call for changes in the knot or even different knots all together. Then the line to line splices I do several of these for different applications. The blood knot is the one I use most often or the double snell knot. Both these from my braid the the mono/fluorocarbon, both of different sizes. Here I have way way to much fun with also, probably another med here as well, after all; there isn't to many left on the market I am not taking...

Have not talked about fly rods, reels and rigging either, now you talk about someone way out there with something way different, now my fly fishing equipment and rigging goes way off the beaten path. Saving these knots and fly rods and why for laterz...

I do hope my tremors and auto spell check didn't make a mess out of this also, a s time is getting in the way right now..

Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14484463 09/21/22 11:06 PM
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I forgot to mention I bought some reel butter. IT's a line conditioner to help reduce the birds nest when the braid cuts down into the spool like you mentioned above. I have het to try it but I hope it does help. After you snag a time or two, it seems you start to have more issues with the snap back and throwing your bait off... I wish I could find that dang knot I use. It is a great knot. I'd like to share it here...


Catfish Tim
๐ŸŸ๐ŸŸ"If it doesn't have whiskers, it's just bait"๐ŸŸ๐ŸŸ
Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: skeetmaster] #14484492 09/21/22 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by skeetmaster
Bob, in texas it's "two cents worth". You should just stick to British slang..... roflmao roflmao roflmao


Heretic!!

frkazoid


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Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Rowdy] #14484496 09/21/22 11:38 PM
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Did anyone notice all these posts and different points of view, and yet no-one has flamed anyone else for getting it 'wrong'. This is why our place here on the interwebs is so precious.

bannana2

We all just wanna catch fish.

fish


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Re: What line,size and knots, hooks also [Re: Bluecat Bob] #14484510 09/22/22 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluecat Bob
Did anyone notice all these posts and different points of view, and yet no-one has flamed anyone else for getting it 'wrong'. This is why our place here on the interwebs is so precious.

bannana2

We all just wanna catch fish.

fish

you are wrong


Good Fishing and God Bless

โ€œIโ€™d rather be a failure at something I enjoy than to be a success at something I hateโ€


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