You're good to go. Pretty much guaranteed rain next week.

Thanks Derek

Here a pretty good video by Matt Martin of "The Grass Factor". on the MSM Turf herbicide. A little goes a long, long way. They sent me a measuring tube with my product which made it easy for mixing a gallon or two for spot spraying.

Matt's the man. Throw their measuring cup in the trash and get a scale, lots of products come with measuring cups and they are not to be trusted, at least not at the professional product level. Specially with something like MSM, or Celsius. If you're off a few pellets eyeballing it you could easily go well over 0.3g. Using a scale will be exact. Same goes for liquids. Don't use the tip and pour measuring device on the bottle. Liquid ounces and convert to milliliters if it's a small amount needed and use syringes that you can get at tractor supply for cheap. Personally, I'm pretty particular about it and like to be dead nuts on my measurements. Here is 0.3g of MSM. Such a small amount that it could easily be measured incorrectly not using a decent scale.

What is the best pre-emergent product to use in the fall for a bermuda and zoysia lawn? I am probably not sophisticated enough to use a spray. Looking for a granule product that I can spread with my rotary.

Should I use different products in spring/summer/fall applications?

COFF go with Prodiamine which is sold as Lesco Stonewall at Lowes. Highest active ingredient at the cheapest price you'll find right now in a granular. Again, with my scales. Weigh it out and apply 2.5lbs per 1000 square feet. Water it in with 1/2" of irrigation. If you want better broadleaf control, go with split apps of Gallery(not cheap). Winter broads are easy to kill with a hose end from a box store for the most part. Go Stonewall at the rate above and go from there. Granted with these rains let it dry out a few days then apply. Get it done by Labor Day. a.

Hey Derek, I've been following along and trying to get my bermuda lawn in shape. For a full bermuda lawn should I go with the Lesco Stonewall or Dimension? I do have some crabgrass and spurge I'm pulling now but I'm not sure if I should be trying to control that with this application of pre-emergent or the one I do early next year. I appreciate all the advice you have provided in this thread!

You could go with either. Dimension is crazy expensive right now, has as shorter soil residual. So for those reasons go with Prodiamine(Stonewall). I get really good results doing 2 apps of Prodiamine a year. Now and mid February. If Lowes was to put the Lesco Dimension on clearance I would buy it. But instead of 2 apps I would look at the label and see what the max per year per 1000 rate is. Divide that by 4 and apply it every 3 months.

Neither are good for Spurge. For that you need to go with isoxaben sold as trade name Gallery. It's the best for broadleaf control. Personally I skip the now/fall app of it as it's expensive and winter weeds are easy to kill with wide selection of hose end weed killers for cheap. I would apply Gallery in mid February and again in May. That will be your best defense against the July/August spurge season.

What fertilizer are you using?

Thanks for your reply! If I go with the Prodiamine does it also cover crabgrass? If I go with the Dimension should I start now with my every three-month application? I'm fairly new with this lawn, we just moved in last year. The yard was in rough shape with bare spots and bad sprinkler coverage. I've had the sprinklers adjusted and they are working much better now. I did a soil test this spring and it recommended a 7-0-20 Stress Blend 3% Iron - Bio-Nite - Granular Lawn Fertilizer which I've put down twice this summer and I also put a bag of ENCAP 1188380X Earth Science Fast Acting Sulfur (25 lb.) Lawn Food.




You guys have some very nice yards and I'm not competing but I do have some solid line domination going!

I don't mean to come off as an a-hole so I apologize if I do lol. But I am going to be straight with you. Your soil test is from My Soil. It's probably the worst soil test on the market. It might be a step above the home kit sold at box stores. Use A&M or Waypoint. You're probably sold on Dimension because you've been told that it's a pre and post herbicide for crab. Which to an extent is true. If you have a bunch of crab right now and you apply Dimension it's not going to kill it. It will only work as a post on very young crab at the 3-5th tiller stage. Crab is an annual. Whatever you have now will die off in the winter and the mother plant will not return. It only comes back via whatever seed was dropped. Dimension or Prodiamine is going to give you good pre emergent control for that. If you want to spend $60+ a bag on Dimension I have no issue with that at all.It's a good product. But it's an unnecessary cost when Prodiamine is half the cost. Get off the yard mastery program. You're paying for marketing and their products aren't good. Looking at the stress blend it has a ton of oxides in it. Which are not very plant available if at all. I'm not saying throw it in the trash. Use up what you've got then switch. I would get another soil test in February or March from A&M or Waypoint. I would like to see a more accurate reading on your P and K. If your P is really that high you could run a 1-0-1 fert for probably the next couple years. If your K is a little higher you could run a 21-0-0. With your high Ph you would be best of using an ammonium sulfate or nitrate based nitrogen vs urea. Ditch the fast acting sulphur and go with Elemental at 5lb per 1000, May and August. Some people with our very long growing season will do 3 apps of it. April, June, Aug or Sept.

You're for sure on the right path. I like that your applying products, getting a soil test, fixing sprinklers and so on. I would just change some things. Simpler is better. Mowing, watering, simple NPK. Don't go down the rabbit hole of bio solids, bio chars, and all that garbage. Not needed and you'll spend a ton of cash. You got this.

And make sure it's crab that you're dealing with. Lot of people confuse, crab, dallis and king ranch blue stem.

Derek, Derek, Derek!!!

Derek, no offense taken! I appreciate your time and effort in providing your expert advice. To be honest, I've been hoping someone would tell me I'm overcomplicating things. I've been going down the rabbit hole of youtube videos for hours trying to figure out a good plan. I will definitely get another soil test next feb/mar from one of the places you recommended and report back. I'm going to go with the Stonewall and put another application down mid-February. We have chances of rain all next week, should I go ahead and put it down now? Should I go with any more fertilizer between now and my next application of pre-emergent? I'll also add the Elemental at 5lb per 1000, May and August.

When was your last app? Did you use the stress blend? If you did and with their bag app rate you would have put down 0.25lbs of nitrogen per 1000. They are recommending every 30-45 days which is fine. Let me know what you have on hand. I'm planning on 2 more apps for the year. This weekend and Oct 1st and call it a year. I will put down about 0.40lbs of N each app.

Do the Stonewall now. Since you have irrigation don't play the rain game. Apply your product and get it watered in. I'll apply late afternoon and irrigate the next morning. I would get 3 or so cheap rain gauges place them in a zone and run that zone for 20 minutes. Check your gauges. If you have an 1/4" in there you know that zone needs to run 40 minutes to apply an 1/2" Do this for every zone and write it down.

If you get a soil test in Feb to early March you'll get the results in time to come up with a game plan. In winter I like to write out my app plan for the year with dates, product and the amount to apply. I bank on my growing season from April 1st. to Oct 1st. Also doing your test in that time frame allows what apps you did make to have been used up and/or leached out over the winter. Giving you your most accurate soil test reading.

Derek the T13 had made my front St Augustine about as perfect as it gets (knock on wood). Any problem with just staying with that for the fall app which I will do around Labor Day. I plan to use a higher nitrogen like Scotts Max for the Zoysia in the back.

I am truly appreciative of your helpful advice for my yard. It went from embarrassing last year to one of the best in my neighborhood.

Do you think this plan is okay?

Solid plan. T13 is tough to beat. Doesn't have a sexy label and nobody talks about it but it's a great product for most. I'm a fan of Scotts Max, good ingredients