i was at boat ramp recently. The conversation was regarding HS fishing tournaments. The debate seemed to be that some teams are captain by fisherman who are very highly skilled on the use of eletronics/livescope. The conversations got somewhat heated and it seems that most teams do not have that advantage. The teams winnig tournaments are the ones with the experienced CAPTAIN who is basically locates the fish and all the kids have to do is present the bait.I really know very little about HS Tournament but i suspect very few kids would have access to 8 or 10 thousand dollars in electronics. Are the teams allowed to fish with a guide. i could see where if this is true it could discourage most kids.The idea I would assume is to get kids interested in this great sport. Not sure if its about the kids or the Dads bragging rights Where could i find the rules. i dont have a dog in the fight just found it interesting and it seems a little unfair

Check out all the rules at Texas High School Bass Association

There are a lot of teams that have fathers or grandfathers that basically catch the fish for them and have 80,000+ rigs. But I know a few kids that can just flat-out catch them without help. In collegiate-level fishing is where you find out who doesn't need help. I wish THSBA could find a way to show what the anglers know and not the boat skills.

Been with THSBA almost since its inception. Only once has the boat not been to a regional event and twice we have missed the cut to State. (barely) There have been many checks and prizes won out of my boat, we rarely fish "deep" and I don't own a 'scope.
We do study maps. We do look at Google Earth. We do practice casting, pitching and flipping in the yard. We talk about what we have found. I have them ask "why" - a lot. We pay attention to silly things like retrieval speed, water conditions, weather conditions, how the fish bit, what cover was it in - this all goes back to the "why" and establishing a pattern.
You hear a bit about a team winning using the scope but not near what you could think. I see guys using it at every event and rarely see them on stage holding up their winnings - just because you can see them doesn't mean you can catch them. You would also be surprised by the amount of boats that do have 5-10k of electronics today. Somewhere, I have a couple of photos from the National Championship, in them are a couple of photos of a 16' flats boat from Florida with a 90hp with one 10" graph - they finished 4th on Pickwick fishing deep ledges....... it's the arrow, not the Indian.
No, you cannot hire a guide within a specified period.
As to it being "unfair" - life isn't fair. If you duck something because you think it might not be fair, your gonna miss out on a lot of life. IMO, lowering the bar is a whole lot of why this country is in the state it is in right now. No one benefits by lowering the bar to make things "fair".

Rules can be located at THSBA.org.

If we are worried about Livescope being the issue it would seem pretty easy to me to have those head units removed prior to take off - could be checked at same time live well checks are done. But there will still always be inequality because there are so many factors from boat performance to tackle, and yes even a knowledgeable captain in the boat or not (but to me that's no different than having a knowledgeable coach, like in any other school-sponsored sporting event or extracurricular activity).

Just my 2 cents...

Unfortunately THSBA runs this like a tournament trail. Their statement on the site states this very thing. So to be fair you have to know what you are getting into and yes there would be and will be those that will do what they can to win. I do not mean cheating, but it is up the captain to get them on fish.

This is my first year and not sure we will return because of the tournament trail. We are thinking we will just go back to tournaments which are better if that is what you are seaking. I was hoping for an organization that was to help kids learn and enjoy fishing, but that is not this organizations goal.

Since you stated this is your first year, I will let you in on a what we have tried in the past that has not worked when you were not involved. On more than one occasion we (THSBA) have tried to put together seminars and programs and such to help the students and captains, with very, very little interest. Heck, one year with the help of Fun N Sun, we put together a nice program where some of the Fun N Sun pros and several other very experienced anglers were involved to teach students and captains things like how to read graphs, on the water safety, on the water etiquette, boat ramp etiquette, etc. Several good and useful programs in one seminar. Fifteen, yes only 15, folks showed up in an area where, back then, was the area of our 2 largest divisions with over 250 teams each. So, we have tried with no interest. So regardless of what you may think, it has been our goal but when you get no interest, there’s not much else you can do.

With that, I’m not going to apologize for running a tournament trail like, well, a tournament trail.

I am a second year captain with a 25yo ranger and 2d sonar and gps maps. I have tried to teach my son the way I was taught to fish, and the way we fished for years without electronics. We work on our boat together and discuss plans and patterns. We made regionals last year and missed state by about a pound. Any 1 of the 2 fish we lost that day would have gotten us there. We are sitting in the 30's in our division this year. I have nothing against FFS and would use it if I had it. It dose give an advantage in a sense but still cant make them bite. Fork last month proved that. I do feel the Pro/ Semi pro captain is a more advantageous part of it all. I know of teams that the anglers do not pre-fish and the captain dose all the work. That will hurt them if they are able to make it to the next level. It also takes away scholarships and money for others. With all that said THSBA is and has done a great thing and I hope it continues for years. They do their best to keep things fair and safe while giving youth anglers opportunities to learn grow and earn scholarship. You will always have the $85-100,000 rigs out there and the haves and have nots. Guess were somewhere in the middle.

I agree with you, I think that when tournaments are held among schoolchildren, they should be simpler without the use of complex equipment. The rules can be found on the THSBA website. But still, school tournaments are not professional tournaments. I think it would be better for everyone if the competition would be more fair.

You guys could always find your local kidfish event and enter it......

By the time a kid is playing HS varsity sports, it is always about the win. Successful varsity players have put the time in to be at the top of their game. HS fishing is the same.
If you think that the top kids in fishing are only there because of their captains .....then your only fooling yourself.

Couldn't agree with this more...I've been a HS Captain for 2 years. You can easily see which kids are on top and will be on top for the schools. They are the ones who spend time on the water and don't let other activities sway them. Heck, both years I've seen student anglers on their phone more than fishing. I don't allow that on my boat as it allows for possibility of breaking rules. Time on the water focusing on your skills is key.

Interesting thread. Seems to me that the captain is equivalent to the football coach. And the boat is equivalent to the training facilities and stadiums. Should we only allow amateur coaches to coach our HS football teams? Should we only allow low level training facilities? Some schools, some teams have more. Some do not. It's just a fact of life. Get over it.

My son is going into HS next year and is unbelievably excited about the Fishing program. As of right now, our school has no captain, so the old Nitro sitting next to the barn that has not run in two years is fixing to get an overhaul. Without a quality captain who knows how to fish and how to find fish (I do not qualify as that), he is going to be at a huge disadvantage. Hopefully, we will find a captain. If not we will have a crappy coach and crappy facilities. Losing can be a good life lesson. Putting forth the effort, gathering knowledge, and putting in the work to succeed despite your being at a disadvantage can be a good life lesson too. High School is supposed to be about preparing our kids for the real world. Making everything even by dumbing down the competition isn't going to prepare them for anything.

He will never lose.
He will either win or he will learn.

Win or lose, he should be learning either way. There's still winners and losers in every sport.

If you count yourself beat because your kid doesn't have a hired gun captain, you might as well not even enter the tournaments. I can't speak for every division, but I know for a fact that the division my kids fish in all the top 5 teams consisted of teams that the captain was the parent of at least one of the kids. The kids still have to catch the fish, and it is rarely easy fishing in these things. A majority of the regular season is in the fall which is always tough. Then add the fact that most tournaments are around 200 boats. The fishing is tough and if the kids want to place at the top, they have to be good fishermen. Missing one fish is often the difference in 20+ places. Put more focus on making the kid a better angler and less on hiring a captain. If you take that route you will be successful. Just putting in the time on the water and learning how to prefish will beat 75% of the teams.

Not counting ourselves beat, but I have no grand illusions either. I've always fished ponds and creeks. Sometimes coves of big lakes from a Kayak. That's the extent of my experience, and if I'm the coach, then it's gonna be tough. Hopefully I get time to get the boat going so we can get out and fish this summer.

Just a tip - break the lake into sections. Look at each section as a pond and then figure out how you would fish that particular "pond". This may cut your learning curve some.
Sometimes, we get too hung up on running all over the lake and trying too much stuff. In almost every tournament there were fish caught on a variety of techniques and baits - don't get hung up on dock talk and just do what you know how to do on tournament day.

^^ agree with this. all of it

You will be missed. More importantly, you will miss out on the memories of fishing with your kid. I captained my son's team for four years. He fished 37 high school tournaments (THSBA and others) across Texas and 2 Bass Champs big bass tournaments on Fork. We pre-fished the weekend before for most of these and he picked the spots and techniques. I never had to drag him to events, and when we weren't fishing, he was at the neighborhood pond on the bank or in his kayak. He watched countless numbers on YouTube videos and taught himself to read paper maps and graphs. He loved it despite winning $0 in college scholarships.

Then, he went to college out-of-state. It was 4 years before we got out in my boat, again. It was one of the best days I've had in a while. We spent all day (and dinner that night) reminiscing about the different lakes, the times we almost sunk our boat, his junior record (Lewisville), the various campsites we stayed at, the early morning wake-ups, the restaurants we stumbled upon, and the friends we made with other anglers and boat captains.

If winning is the priority, this may not be for you both. But, you are cheating yourselves if you quit now. Enjoy the ride, it will end soon.

Preach

Very nice comment, I agree with you . We are just starting my sons career in thsba but I can already tell how teaching him and his partner the basics are so rewarding

I've got a hunch your son is going to do just fine with a father like yourself having this kind of mindset.

Good luck to y'all and I wish you the best.

They should to draw for Captains at take off. The kids determine where to go. That would even the competition.

Eyes down, trolling motor on high, flat bills and trendy shades deployed.

Lol, how bout practice, that would be a great idea. Captains and kids go practice and get better. If you don't think it's fair I'll clue you in on something, everyone knows what lakes, the off limits are the same. Same rules apply to everyone. How much more "even" does it get.

One more suggestion...if you are a first time or fairly new captain, you can do yourself and the kids a huge favor. Make sure you are efficient (note I didn't say perfect) in loading and unloading the boat, know the rules of navigation, know all the tournament rules, boat etiquette, fishing etiquette. It may be common sense but you would be surprised at the number of captains that do not know these things and then get frustrated or angry and act inappropriate in front of the kids when they are called out by someone who does know those things. Always remember that you are still setting an example for those kids on how to act and civility in tournaments going forward. That goes for seasoned captains as well, meaning the start of on the water conversations with another boat should be respectful and not personal attacks. Now this tip may not get the kids to catch any more fish, but it will make the experience much more fun and meaningful and more importantly will be reflected in the way the kids conduct themselves on the water, tournament or not, in the future when they are only kids at heart.

I have been involved with THSBA for almost 10 years now (well minus the last year, wife had medical problems). I can say that the experience and the time on the water with our Youth these days does nothing but help them become better people. I have always taught politeness, fishing etiquette, understanding the rules, and learning to fish. If you are a new angler out there to captain for your kid and their friend please be thoughtful towards other anglers. Before you go into a crowded area to fish think about how you would feel if someone got right in front of you, or was fishing to close to your boat, before you crowd anyone else. Keep in mind as someone gets to close, that it is a friendly competition and start off with a smile before you engage conversation. Mainly be prepared because as this continues to grow it is going to happen more and more , and our response is what the students learn from, a lot more than what they learn from the boat that got to close or cut you off.

I wish this had started back when my son was in school (He graduated in 2010). There are lots of kids out there that without this program will probably never get to go out on a boat and fish at all. The lessons you can learn in a single day on a lake is priceless.

THSBA has done an amazing job organizing and managing these events for the students. They primarily focus on SAFETY from start to finish and despite some opinions have shown they care about the students. They have had some insane growth to deal with, and this has caused several challenges, but they have found a solution and implemented quickly.

This is a tournament trail environment because it is a tournament trail. No way around it and doubt anyone with THSBA will argue that. They are not there to keep the playing field even but to say they are not fair in just not true. There are always going to be some that put in the time and the hard work just like there are going to be some that are just happy to show up on tournament day and try to make something happen. I have known teams that went out 7 or 8 times to the tournament waters before the cut off date, and I have known teams that had to put the ramp in their phone for directions on tournament day. I have also seen both teams succeed LOL. Sometimes luck does play a role. Yes, some boats are rigged with more technology just like some boats are captained by more seasoned anglers but the graphs, nor the captains can make the cast or manage the retrieve. Skill level just like in regular tournament trails is all over the board from students that know how to tell when best to use a fast moving bait or drag a jig on the bottom, to students that don't know how to tie on a bait or even what line to use. But the basics are they are all out there on the same lake during the same time period to see who can bring in the biggest bag. In all the years, I have had success and failures with the students but never, not even once, has any student in my boat ever asked to not go to weigh in. They all have been more than eager to get back and talk about their day and find out what their friends were able to make happen.

Probably what I like about this the best as a captain, is seeing the school team work together by having meetings and talking about the lake and patterns that have worked in the past, and seeing some rather shy kids come out of their shell and make new friends with common interests. These days these kids can use as many good role models as they can get as well as new friends. This is way more than just fishing and that is why I have been as involved as I can through the years.

Jody

Good post!

23y/o Champion here, no scope.

First tourney of the season for Hill Country division, 2 freshmen in the boat.

Full time job, Dad, baseball coach and weekend warrior when those duties arent calling.

Won it.

But yes, it sucks going up against parents with no boat, but a bank account to hire (basically) guides. Some of these hired guns literally are retired or extremely well-off in life and spend 5 days a week on the water. Hard to compete against it, but you just put your head down and stay focused. I've seen many guides blank on their home lake in my life.

Are all the entrants this way? Absolutely not. There are some flat-out sticks in this league.

Don't let it scare you off. The hardest thing about all of this is learning the rules and the inevitable lessons the kids will learn. Its weird how some kids get DQ'd for not having a wristband on, and other tourneys arent even asked to produce one bc its 32dg outside and sleeting.

That being said, I'm thankful for THSBA giving these kids something else to do.

Interesting discussion…. I was at Tower Bay today and saw the parking lot 98% full when i got there. I saw a bunch of high school stickers and windows and assumed it was a tournament. My son is only 7 and hasn’t shown any interest in fishing with me yet. I hope that changes in the next few years. It would be a great way to spend time together. I’ve had Livescope a couple years now, and here is my opinion of it. It is great for finding structure and fish in deeper water. I find it basically worthless in shallow water fishing. Livescope cuts out any guessing if there is fish there, but it sure doesn’t make them bite. Frustrates the heck out of me, but that means keep moving until you find feeding fish.

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Odd..... that's always been the key for me - scope or not.

At the last minute Friday night I decided to fish Somerville the lake is low and not my first choice. After going through the park entry I saw the parking lot and it was full around 7:00. I was staging behind someone and they told me it was a HS tournament going on so I prepared myself going from a lazy day on the water to one I probably needed to pay more attention.
My observations: Lake is low, 15 mph N wind so I went straight to a spot that I figured would have the fewest boats on it. There were 4 boats around it but enough space to where I could spot lock and fish without hindering anyone. I stayed there for 2 1/2 hrs much longer than I normally would and during that time only 3 boats came in. I decided to check out a couple of more spots, running the lake I could see the lines of boats each waiting for the next one to move forward. I stopped and watched and waited until a boat pulled out of line and eased in to wet a line and observe. I sat down and was retying when a boat pulled up next to me and the captain asked me if I was leaving? I said no and then he asked me if I was broke down I told him I was retying.

I don't know the rules in place but I have to admit I was impressed with the etiquette I saw. Got me thinking I wish I was younger and how much I would probably enjoy being involved. It wasn't a bad day for me, I was on the water and caught 3 squeakers and watched young anglers without commercials.

Curious, was that you with the skeeter at the Wburger Sat am?

If you're re asking me the answer would be no.