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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: 9094]
#13906710
03/01/21 05:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,207
Lance Vick
OP
TFF Team Angler
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OP
TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,207 |
I think it is not a good program for the lakes that these fish are being taken out of. Maybe good for the state. I agree if these fish are taken out it makes it harder to grow a state record. And unlike some I think about 90% of the 13 plus fish are donated to the program. Not many get put back in. Most everyone wants their 15 minutes. What if those 13 plus pound fish spawn in their home lake ? Would that help the genetics in that lake
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906718
03/01/21 06:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,146
9094
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,146 |
I think it is not a good program for the lakes that these fish are being taken out of. Maybe good for the state. I agree if these fish are taken out it makes it harder to grow a state record. And unlike some I think about 90% of the 13 plus fish are donated to the program. Not many get put back in. Most everyone wants their 15 minutes. What if those 13 plus pound fish spawn in their home lake ? Would that help the genetics in that lake I would think it would for sure. Obviously a lake like Ivie or Fork has good genetics so keeping those fish in the lakes natuarally would do good. So the share a lunker program started in 1986, Barry caught the state record in 1992, so it most likely was not a share a lunker offspring. Since then nothing withing a couple pounds has been caught and virtually every fish caught over 13 has been taken out of the lake. It doesn't take much of a leap to figure taking these fish out the lakes hurts it.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906777
03/01/21 06:50 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,802
Tx Tree Grower
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,802 |
I'm as over the sharelunker argument as I am the MLF vs BASS argument. Clearly most bass anglers in Texas don't support it, so I'm not sure why they keep this thing going. I've always supported the program in the past, but TPWD has yet to prove that the Sharelunker program has made a single contribution toward improving the likelihood of catching a State Record giant bass in Texas lakes. Or if they have proved that point, I have not seen it. The reality is that the answer to the OP's question is that no matter the genetics, we likely no longer have the proper ecosystem to grow a state record bass. No matter what genetics we stock.
Personally, I'm to the point that I wish TPWD would just go back to stocking native northern bass in our lakes again. Especially the lakes in the northern half of the state. Most of the literature I read these days leans toward the fact that our Texas lakes have aged, become silted in, and have become devoid of aquatic vegetation. Those factors plus increased pressure lead many to believe that no matter how good the genetic are, our lakes simply will not ever be able to grow the State Record giants that the sharelunker program and the Florida Genetics stocking program aim to achieve. So why even deal with the negative attributes of Florida genetics when the environments we are putting them in are not capable of supporting the desired goal of State Record giants? Why waste the time and money on the Sharelunker program when we are putting those bass in the same environments? Seems to me that all we are accomplishing with the Sharlunker program is wasting money. Likewise, all we are accomplishing with stocking of Florida genetics is breeding a group of fish that are harder to catch and hate anything that resembles cold water. Like the OP, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure someone way smarter than me will tell me where I am wrong here.
Last edited by Tx Tree Grower; 03/01/21 06:52 PM.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906780
03/01/21 06:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,532
1oldbassguy
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,532 |
I have a hard time thinking the SAL program doesn't help the overall size and productivity . Here's an example regarding " SAL " sized bass being left to breed and size themselves within the lake . Lake Amador , Stockton Calif . Had Florida strains brought in early 70's ( might have started in late 60's ?) . Within a few short years , the lake record is caught 17.4lbs . They stopped stocking the Florida's and eventually those " pure strain " Florida's started breeding with true " Northern " strains that were already in the lake , nothing close to 17 has been caught since . You can imagine this lake was absolutely pounded with bass guys for years after the 17lber . This particular lake is deep ( 250+ feet ) , has TONS of food , including stocked trout . This lake still kicks out lots of 10+ bass , but nothing like a 17lber . Is there another 17 in this lake = YES , is there as many as previously = NO . The Florida strains " breed " down in size with the smaller Northern's .
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906782
03/01/21 06:53 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75,780
banker-always fishing
Pumpkin Head
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Pumpkin Head
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 75,780 |
What if all those giants are there because of ShareLunker fry being put in the lake from donated fish? It’s a double edged sword. Would Ivie have the numbers of giants showing up without it? Super curious how many of these have genetics that tie back to the SAL program. Good thought it would be nice to know Good point!
IGFA World Record Rio Grande Cichlid. Lake Dunlap. John 3:16 Sinner's Prayer. God forgive me a sinner. I accept Jesus Christ as my Savior !
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906785
03/01/21 06:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 54,465
RayBob
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 54,465 |
I think the SAL program is and has been a waste of resources.
Would the state be better off disbanding the program, stocking tons more Florida bass , and maybe trying to develop a higher grade of forage fish. Certainly in the 3 decades of the SAL program we should be seeing a better return for the money invested.
To be certain in the early days the theory of growing giant bass sounded great. It works in the farming/ranching world. but after this long a period isn't the proof in the pudding? there's about a 16% mortality rate of brood fish and last year of 4 Legacy Class ShareLunkers donated 2 died. Stress !
I'm no longer a fan of the SAL program.
Advice? Wise men don't need it. Fools won't heed it.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Tx Tree Grower]
#13906791
03/01/21 07:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,207
Lance Vick
OP
TFF Team Angler
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OP
TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,207 |
Good points Maybe efforts should be how to grow Hydrilla and better the water quality and forage base I'm as over the sharelunker argument as I am the MLF vs BASS argument. Clearly most bass anglers in Texas don't support it, so I'm not sure why they keep this thing going. I've always supported the program in the past, but TPWD has yet to prove that the Sharelunker program has made a single contribution toward improving the likelihood of catching a State Record giant bass in Texas lakes. Or if they have proved that point, I have not seen it. The reality is that the answer to the OP's question is that no matter the genetics, we likely no longer have the proper ecosystem to grow a state record bass. No matter what genetics we stock.
Personally, I'm to the point that I wish TPWD would just go back to stocking native northern bass in our lakes again. Especially the lakes in the northern half of the state. Most of the literature I read these days leans toward the fact that our Texas lakes have aged, become silted in, and have become devoid of aquatic vegetation. Those factors plus increased pressure lead many to believe that no matter how good the genetic are, our lakes simply will not ever be able to grow the State Record giants that the sharelunker program and the Florida Genetics stocking program aim to achieve. So why even deal with the negative attributes of Florida genetics when the environments we are putting them in are not capable of supporting the desired goal of State Record giants? Why waste the time and money on the Sharelunker program when we are putting those bass in the same environments? Seems to me that all we are accomplishing with the Sharlunker program is wasting money. Likewise, all we are accomplishing with stocking of Florida genetics is breeding a group of fish that are harder to catch and hate anything that resembles cold water. Like the OP, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure someone way smarter than me will tell me where I am wrong here.
Last edited by Lance Vick; 03/01/21 07:04 PM.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906809
03/01/21 07:11 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,832
David Welcher
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 5,832 |
SAL program is a Gimmick, it's just for publicity, I had a marine biologist tell me this 25 years ago.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906816
03/01/21 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,291
Dubee
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,291 |
[quote=BigDozer66]They are mostly returned to the lake (minus the very few that die) but I have often wondered what kind of trauma they might endure when transported to and fro? They are mostly returned to the lake (minus the very few that die) but I have often wondered what kind of trauma they might endure when transported to and fro? The 13.07 that was caught by Dale Washington in 2007 had been caught donated and released the year before So some fish make it thru but made no weight gain [/quot I was happy for Dale when he caught that fish. But damn I had to hear about it for months. Lol
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906822
03/01/21 07:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,437
SteezMacQueen
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,437 |
I heard that when they die, they stop growing. So...as long as they make it back to the lake, I guess it’s possible.
Eat. Sleep. Fish.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906829
03/01/21 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 356
WLBDallas
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 356 |
They need to shoot those fish up with trenbolone acetate
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906830
03/01/21 07:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,474
Jake Shannon(Skeet4Life)
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,474 |
Good points Maybe efforts should be how to grow Hydrilla and better the water quality and forage base
[quote=Tx Tree Grower]I'm as over the sharelunker argument as I am the MLF vs BASS argument. Clearly most bass anglers in Texas don't support it, so I'm not sure why they keep this thing going. I've always supported the program in the past, but TPWD has yet to prove that the Sharelunker program has made a single contribution toward improving the likelihood of catching a State Record giant bass in Texas lakes. Or if they have proved that point, I have not seen it. The reality is that the answer to the OP's question is that no matter the genetics, we likely no longer have the proper ecosystem to grow a state record bass. No matter what genetics we stock.
Personally, I'm to the point that I wish TPWD would just go back to stocking native northern bass in our lakes again. Especially the lakes in the northern half of the state. Most of the literature I read these days leans toward the fact that our Texas lakes have aged, become silted in, and have become devoid of aquatic vegetation. Those factors plus increased pressure lead many to believe that no matter how good the genetic are, our lakes simply will not ever be able to grow the State Record giants that the sharelunker program and the Florida Genetics stocking program aim to achieve. So why even deal with the negative attributes of Florida genetics when the environments we are putting them in are not capable of supporting the desired goal of State Record giants? Why waste the time and money on the Sharelunker program when we are putting those bass in the same environments? Seems to me that all we are accomplishing with the Sharlunker program is wasting money. Likewise, all we are accomplishing with stocking of Florida genetics is breeding a group of fish that are harder to catch and hate anything that resembles cold water. Like the OP, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm sure someone way smarter than me will tell me where I am wrong here. It baffles me and lakes like Fork, Toledo Bend, Rayburn etc. do not have TPWD full attention regarding grass growth. Its supper easy.... Grow grass you grow bass every lake that used to have grass is now worse without it. Every dang one of them, fork doesn't have wake board boats or massive amounts of party cruisers. It doesn't have large marinas that would petition for the grass to be sprayed. There is no reason why TPWD shouldn't be focused on growing hydrilla is every lake that receives most of its public used from fishing.
Last edited by Jake Shannon(Skeet4Life); 03/01/21 07:25 PM.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906832
03/01/21 07:26 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 666
KsChampion198
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 666 |
Lots of good theories here. I live in Kansas and they don't do much of anything for bass here. You guys are truly lucky....
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906841
03/01/21 07:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,437
SteezMacQueen
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,437 |
I think it is not a good program for the lakes that these fish are being taken out of. Maybe good for the state. I agree if these fish are taken out it makes it harder to grow a state record. And unlike some I think about 90% of the 13 plus fish are donated to the program. Not many get put back in. Most everyone wants their 15 minutes. What if those 13 plus pound fish spawn in their home lake ? Would that help the genetics in that lake Those 13+ fish do spawn in their home lakes. Many, many times. Thousands upon thousands of fry. Their genetics are the same when they are 3 pounds vs 13 pounds.
Eat. Sleep. Fish.
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Re: A State Record bass in Texas ?
[Re: Lance Vick]
#13906846
03/01/21 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,135
txwhitetail
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 15,135 |
I think the value in the SAL program is the DNA studies that are ongoing with the fish.
The minute number of fish going to the SAL program have next to zero adverse effects to the lake. They are just one (or a few) of many in that lake.
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