This is a question regarding which is the better forage to stock for a 165 acre private lake in east Texas? We have always had a thriving population of Threadfin shad (going back to the �70s), but over the past 5 or 6 years the pelicans and cormorants have wiped them out. We stocked Threadfin shad last year in time to benefit from the spawn, but we are far from where we need to be with our lake�s forage base.

It occurred to me that we might be better off in the future if we stock Gizzard shad, since they might survive the depredation better? What are the pros and cons with stocking Gizzard shad rather than Threadfin shad? Thanks

I do understand that mature Gizzard shad get too large to be good forage for most of the fish population.

In case anybody was wondering about this, I spoke with a TPWD biologist about mixing Gizzard shad in with our Threadfin. He advised me to not do that, saying that the Gizzard shad would in a few years be too big to help as forage, while eating up a lot of the food from the Threadfin. I guess the gizzard shad grow too big too fast to feed anything. Maybe the cormorants will get bird flu.

I would get a second opinion

That's why I started this thread, to get people's opinions. Yours would be appreciated.

If you have significant numbers of large predator fish I think gizzards are beneficial for growing trophy bass. They reproduce more than threadfins and from my understanding have a higher fat protein as well. Yes they get big but I know I have caught 16" hybrids on 8" gizzards also.

Thanks for your input. Very much appreciated.

I have no answer regarding 165 acres. Out of my league due to too many variables.

Buggsboy, I have a good deal of hands on experience with this question in small ponds...but nothing like 165 acres...and as you probably know scaling up can make a big difference. Having said that, here's my opinion:

Threadfins are pretty much a waste of time and money in small ponds. There just isn't adequate resources to support a sustaining population. The main problem I see is that in small ponds in winter there are very few protected locations, i.e. deep pockets where they can escape predation as well as cold water. Because of this, the LMB just pick them off, every last one of them. For the money spent, rainbow trout are a better investment, IMO, than threadfins in small ponds.

Gizzards, on the other hand, do not have this problem. I have had a sustaining population of gizzard shad (Trinity River origin) in one 4 acre pond for about 10 years...through drought, cold, hot, etc. That pond has many large bass in it with good numbers of 8 pound class bass and all the way up to 11.5 pounds (I believe Share a lunkers are there but Florida strain smart/shy).

I have never, ever observed the " too large to be good forage" problem with gizzards that so many claim...but that isn't surprising because I have experienced numerous instances where the "experts" are absolutely wrong when it comes to the dynamics in small ponds.

Now, if I were so fortunate to own/manage a 165 acre "pond" , I would definitely be visiting the Trinity River for some solid gizzard breeder stock...but only after establishing a good population of bass over 5 pounds.

I have seen both sides of this issue, first hand, as it relates to gizzard shad. The negative side of gizzard shad is that they can cause an issue that is usually referred to as "gizzard shad lock up". Gizzard shad spawn only once a year, but when they do, the release of eggs is huge, thus creating lots of babies. An average female produces 300,000 eggs. That can be a great thing or it can be a bad thing. Since most private lakes have an out of whack predator (bass-too many) vs prey (forage-not enough) it would seem logical that having lots of prey (gizzard shad) would be a good thing. Our bass have a lot more to eat. The down side is that if your bass poputlation is low and more importantly, if you have very few larger bass (6lb+) you can experience the dreadeed gizzard shad lock up. This is where virtually the only thing left in the lake is gizzard shad. Since gizzard shad can grow to 18" (two pounds) you must have some big bass to to eat them before they reach much larger than 8 to 10" inches. In order to control the population of gizzard shad you need big bass.

Having said that, I have electrofished likely more than 300 lakes in the last 10 years and only seen this once, on a 20 acre lake near Athens Texas. IMO, IF YOU HAVE A HEALTHY POPULATION OF LARGE BASS IN YOUR LAKE the risk is worth the reward.. If you have a lake that is primariliry a dink fest, I would stay away from gizzard shad.

The great news about gizzard shad is that it can be the forage base that can propel your lake to the next level. 6 to 8 inch gizzard shad are an incredible food source for big bass. Lakes that we work with that have gizzard shad, generally have above average sized bass. Big bass like large forage!

Adult size gizzard shad (6" to 12") will likely be hard to locate for purchase in the amount you would want for a 165 acre lake. We have stocked them in several lakes over the years. However, threadfin are a lot more readily available from late April to mid May.

Good luck.

The situation we have is, ours is not a trophy bass lake. We have residences around the lake, and black crappie is probably the favorite game fish, followed by bass and then copper nose bluegill. Also, a few channel cat. We need forage for everything. Threadfin were working great until the depredation wiped them out. I called the U. S. Fisheries and Wildlife people about a depredation permit, and they wouldn�t even talk to me. I know I�m probably beating a dead horse there.

Im gonna start stocking some gizzards in our lake. I think we have the big fish population to keep them in check. Thanks for the info as always

This should be your answer, IMO. The gizzards will in a short time get to large for any thing as a food source other than double digit bass and flathead catfish. You might put in some large brush piles to serve as hiding areas for the threadfin.