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Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Ken A.] #13118156 04/09/19 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken A.
Originally Posted by Floyd Yarbrough


In this "Information Age" that we all live in, it is very tough to NOT know what or where the fish are biting on area lakes. In my opinion, the teams in question should have been "zero-weighted" instead of disqualified. There is a BIG difference in breaking a safety rule or "no-information" rule versus intentionally and knowingly trying to cheat and win. You forgot to put on your life vest while under big motor power? OK, you broke a safety rule and you are zeroed. I don't see where not wearing your life vest added to your total catch weight at the scales.


Agreed.

We brought six fish into weigh-in once at Fork (danged black live wells) and culled at the dock. We won the event & passed the Poly. After the tourney was over the TD came to me and told me someone had seen us culling at the dock. Having more than five fish in the well was a violation of the rules. He asked if we would withdraw our catch and I agreed. That way we did not have a DQ on our record.



It was at that moment, the Legend of "Six Fish" Ken was born...

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: ditchpickel21] #13118170 04/09/19 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by ditchpickel21
As one of the kids on the 6th place team it was really disappointing to have our season end the way that it did. yes we broke the rule but in no way was it to be looking for bedding fish or in any other way that would give us an advantage. the picture was taken of me and my brother as we idled under the 35-bridge in the picture I am wearing my life jacket and my brother the one some of you all have said was standing is clearly seen squated in his chair HOLDING his life jacket in his left hand because we had just put in at Hickory creek ramp. so yes we broke the rule but in no way was it for us to gain a advantage over the competition. Me and my broth work very hard because fishing is what we love and it sucks to have something like this happen. but this is a lesson we will learn from. Im only saying this because I do not want people talking about me and my brother as if we were cheating to gain an advantage over the competition. The photo was taken while we were pre fishing[Linked Image]


I am impressed that this young man came on here and so very well described not only what happened but posted the pic that got him dqd as well. I sure wish we saw this kind of gut out of more kids today. Props to your parents for raising a man in a world of Grand Theft Auto video junkies. Judging by your response I am sure you will have better days ahead young man.
Good luck to you and sorry your HS career had to end like that, but hey what are little brothers for!


God, Family, Friends
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Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: RKT] #13118173 04/09/19 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RKT
Chris - did you see where the total scholarship and prizes given out this season will be over $500k. THSBA is also building three new live release trailers and has had three weigh in trailers built. There are a few low salaries employees that handle all paperwork and a lot of business matters. THSBA also has to maintain its own liability insurance, insurance on all trailers, and pay monthly fees to store all six trailers. These expenses are just the tip of the iceberg of all the expenses. If you want to get technical to add everything up then do a better job of it than you have done. THSBA is a transparent non profit organization. The income and expenses are available to you through the proper channels. My advise is if it is that big of an issue to you then do your proper research. After you do your proper research you will quit mouthing on the TFF about how they dont pay back to the kids all that they can. Either do your research and learn the truth or quit running your mouth about things you really dont know the full picture about. You kind of sound like A.O.C. to me.

huh

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Tim Haugh] #13118174 04/09/19 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Haugh
Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
Originally Posted by Txduckhunter
Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
Rules are rules and everyone who fishes enough tournaments will eventually make mistakes sooner or later. Most are purely unintentional (like this situation). My problem with this whole issue the fact that the photo wasnt given to the TD prior to the event and even worse, the team wasn't notified in advance by the TD they had already made a rules infraction. They obviously broke a rule but to spring it on them after the fact the way they did is pretty chicken s!@$ in my opinion. Had they known, they would have likely not even fished but instead they had a good finish and spent their time and effort trying to compete only to have it stripped away due to someone simply looking for a reason to try and get someone DQ'd. As far as the TD and the High School series, I have never in my life seen the amount of restrictions and rules emphasized as I have personally experienced being a boat captain myself for these kids. There is a balance between keeping and abiding by a good set of rules for any event of this size and nature but those rules are there to protect the ones who don't intentionally abuse the system and not as an excuse to teach young anglers a lesson. Everyone makes mistakes like these kids made but there is a point where the TD should have asked the photo taker "why did you not give us this photo prior to the event?" The other question I personally have for the high school series is where does all the money go? These kids are competing against hundreds of other teams essentially for bragging rights. No other series with as strict of rules policy out there, taking in the kind of cash they do for each event, pays out in hand outs. No matter how you slice it, the placing teams are receiving items that are given as a donated item provided by an event sponsor. Its a door prize. Getting a free rod and reel and a plaque doesnt cost the event holder anywhere close to what is being brought in (if anything at all) nor does a scholarship. If you're gonna act like a bunch of money is on the line with your rules (like most major events do), give them some incentive more than something that didnt cost you anything like a free rod. Otherwise, if all thats at stake in these events is one school simply having bragging rights over the others, let the entry fee reflect what you're paying out to these kids which is essentially nothing. Thats my two cents and anyway you try and justify it, it's wrong to collect money and not pay it out,,, especially when its kids.

Finally, To whomever took this photo : spend more time working to figure out how to catch them instead worrying about everyone else and you'll win more tournaments. As far as Im concerned, the only person with egg on their face in this situation is you sir. It shows how you spent your practice time.


You assume that you know a lot.
Have you called and asked how the money is spent? Are you POSITIVE that everything is a "gimme"? Weigh-in trailers, release tanks, etc all cost money. I can promise the money isn't being spent on the huge salaries the board is receiving......
Is $60 entry fee really too much when the possible return is anywhere from 1k -20k in scholarship money? Tell you what, go fish the FLW HS program - the entry is free and they give away 3 places at every tourney, a plaque and a package of swimbaits is the prize for 2nd, been there done that.
Are you positive that the photo in question was held until Saturday as a diabolical scheme thought up by the evil villains that have no fishing skills??
You say that that they have egg on their face, my feeling is that I've seen violations and called the captains out while on the water, I've also filed a protest before (not this one) when I saw someone doing something that could have ended tragically for everyone involved. If we do not police ourselves, then who is to blame when an accident happens and a life is lost? Perhaps if someone had protested or said something to the offending party at an earlier date, it could have been prevented.,, nah, don't want to be a "snitch" - much better to turn your head when you see wrong doing than to actively take a stand.
I follow the rules, my boys follow the rules - shouldn't everyone else follow the same rules? If not, what am I teaching these young men....

Here is the simple math
8 division with 6 events per year yielding a 200 team field (on average or more). With regular season entries only based on a 200 boat field thats 12,000$ per event taken in. 12,000 $ per event times 48 events across the state per year amounts to $576,000 in the regular season alone taken in by THBA. I completely get it cost money to put on a big event but even accounting for the "scholarship" allotments for the "state" championship its not even close to the revenue brought in during the regular season.
Those kids that did their homework and beat the entire field during a regular season event win a 1,000 $ "scholarship" to split between two kids? I know I can't be the only person out there who competes in bass tournaments every single week asking the same question and seeing something wrong with that...
You said it yourself, if the board is not receiving big salaries, then where the heck does does the rest of the 576,000 $ they took in (not including championship entries) go? It sure as heck doesnt go back to the kids competing for it. Maybe 100-150k worth in "scholarships" does if they make it to state but the rest of that cash (IMO) belongs to the kids putting in the effort to compete. If someone gets offended that I asked question that then I don't know what to tell you. Its math and from my perspective, its not adding up.

I am open for enlightenment on the subject if anyone cares to explain why I'm crazy for questioning it.

I also never one time said it was ok to not follow the rules. They are there for a reason and need to be abided by 100%.




???? Nothing to say?


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: txsuperman] #13118188 04/09/19 03:03 AM
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I tried to tell him Steez...... some folks just gotta learn the hard way.

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Txduckhunter] #13118194 04/09/19 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Txduckhunter
I tried to tell him Steez...... some folks just gotta learn the hard way.



Well. Im usually pretty opinionated, but Im done on this topic for a while. I feel bad for the kids involved. Honest mistake, I assume, and hard lesson learned for sure.

As with everything fishing related....it IS just fishing. Not the end of the world. Its as complicated or as easy as we make it.


Eat. Sleep. Fish.
Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Tim Haugh] #13118205 04/09/19 03:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Tim Haugh
Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
Originally Posted by Txduckhunter
Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
Rules are rules and everyone who fishes enough tournaments will eventually make mistakes sooner or later. Most are purely unintentional (like this situation). My problem with this whole issue the fact that the photo wasnt given to the TD prior to the event and even worse, the team wasn't notified in advance by the TD they had already made a rules infraction. They obviously broke a rule but to spring it on them after the fact the way they did is pretty chicken s!@$ in my opinion. Had they known, they would have likely not even fished but instead they had a good finish and spent their time and effort trying to compete only to have it stripped away due to someone simply looking for a reason to try and get someone DQ'd. As far as the TD and the High School series, I have never in my life seen the amount of restrictions and rules emphasized as I have personally experienced being a boat captain myself for these kids. There is a balance between keeping and abiding by a good set of rules for any event of this size and nature but those rules are there to protect the ones who don't intentionally abuse the system and not as an excuse to teach young anglers a lesson. Everyone makes mistakes like these kids made but there is a point where the TD should have asked the photo taker "why did you not give us this photo prior to the event?" The other question I personally have for the high school series is where does all the money go? These kids are competing against hundreds of other teams essentially for bragging rights. No other series with as strict of rules policy out there, taking in the kind of cash they do for each event, pays out in hand outs. No matter how you slice it, the placing teams are receiving items that are given as a donated item provided by an event sponsor. Its a door prize. Getting a free rod and reel and a plaque doesnt cost the event holder anywhere close to what is being brought in (if anything at all) nor does a scholarship. If you're gonna act like a bunch of money is on the line with your rules (like most major events do), give them some incentive more than something that didnt cost you anything like a free rod. Otherwise, if all thats at stake in these events is one school simply having bragging rights over the others, let the entry fee reflect what you're paying out to these kids which is essentially nothing. Thats my two cents and anyway you try and justify it, it's wrong to collect money and not pay it out,,, especially when its kids.

Finally, To whomever took this photo : spend more time working to figure out how to catch them instead worrying about everyone else and you'll win more tournaments. As far as Im concerned, the only person with egg on their face in this situation is you sir. It shows how you spent your practice time.


You assume that you know a lot.
Have you called and asked how the money is spent? Are you POSITIVE that everything is a "gimme"? Weigh-in trailers, release tanks, etc all cost money. I can promise the money isn't being spent on the huge salaries the board is receiving......
Is $60 entry fee really too much when the possible return is anywhere from 1k -20k in scholarship money? Tell you what, go fish the FLW HS program - the entry is free and they give away 3 places at every tourney, a plaque and a package of swimbaits is the prize for 2nd, been there done that.
Are you positive that the photo in question was held until Saturday as a diabolical scheme thought up by the evil villains that have no fishing skills??
You say that that they have egg on their face, my feeling is that I've seen violations and called the captains out while on the water, I've also filed a protest before (not this one) when I saw someone doing something that could have ended tragically for everyone involved. If we do not police ourselves, then who is to blame when an accident happens and a life is lost? Perhaps if someone had protested or said something to the offending party at an earlier date, it could have been prevented.,, nah, don't want to be a "snitch" - much better to turn your head when you see wrong doing than to actively take a stand.
I follow the rules, my boys follow the rules - shouldn't everyone else follow the same rules? If not, what am I teaching these young men....

Here is the simple math
8 division with 6 events per year yielding a 200 team field (on average or more). With regular season entries only based on a 200 boat field thats 12,000$ per event taken in. 12,000 $ per event times 48 events across the state per year amounts to $576,000 in the regular season alone taken in by THBA. I completely get it cost money to put on a big event but even accounting for the "scholarship" allotments for the "state" championship its not even close to the revenue brought in during the regular season.
Those kids that did their homework and beat the entire field during a regular season event win a 1,000 $ "scholarship" to split between two kids? I know I can't be the only person out there who competes in bass tournaments every single week asking the same question and seeing something wrong with that...
You said it yourself, if the board is not receiving big salaries, then where the heck does does the rest of the 576,000 $ they took in (not including championship entries) go? It sure as heck doesnt go back to the kids competing for it. Maybe 100-150k worth in "scholarships" does if they make it to state but the rest of that cash (IMO) belongs to the kids putting in the effort to compete. If someone gets offended that I asked question that then I don't know what to tell you. Its math and from my perspective, its not adding up.

I am open for enlightenment on the subject if anyone cares to explain why I'm crazy for questioning it.

I also never one time said it was ok to not follow the rules. They are there for a reason and need to be abided by 100%.




I have stayed out of it until now since you want to question where the money goes. Your math is way off.

First off, only one division averaged 200 or more boats per event. One division (Hill Country) averaged 11 boats per event. Other divisions averaged 120 to 130 boats per event. At every open event, the THSBA pledges $3500 in scholarships plus the boat captain side pot, which varies at each event depending on how many captains enter, but at last count = roughly $20,000 +\-. $3500 x 40 open events = $140,000. 4 Regional events x $20,000 in scholarships pledged = $80,000. One State Championship = $80,000 in scholarships. Total scholarships pledged = $300,000 + boat captain side pot scholarships (roughly $20,000) + $8,000 AOY scholarships + Clayton Winkles Award ($750) = $328,750. Now add in all of the plaques and team trophies at all events, plus awards and trophies for Top 10 in each event Division AOY standings, prizes given away (about half donated by sponsors), and you get another $180,000.

Now, factor in the cost to hire live release tank at well over half of the events, TD fees at each event (including hotel), we have 3 full time employees, payroll taxes, accountant fees when filing a federal tax return, D&O insurance, insurance for the student anglers, insurance for weigh in trailers, office supplies, computers to run events and office staff, Taysis tournament programs, gas for generators to run weigh in trailers, storage fees to store trailers, incidentals when something breaks or wears out, cost of THSBA merchandise (all proceeds from sales go to scholarship fund), and we are now having 3 live release tanks built for next season for optimum fish care

If you would like a to the penny accounting we will be more than happy to provide you with a financial report per 501c3 rules and regulations. All you have to do is email our office and request one.

You may want to have your figures and math correct before trying to stir the pot and accuse our association of any wrong doing, especially financially. Until then, take your inflated numbers elsewhere.



And now you know the rest of the story,

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Cameron] #13118226 04/09/19 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Cameron
Originally Posted by Ken A.
Originally Posted by Floyd Yarbrough


In this "Information Age" that we all live in, it is very tough to NOT know what or where the fish are biting on area lakes. In my opinion, the teams in question should have been "zero-weighted" instead of disqualified. There is a BIG difference in breaking a safety rule or "no-information" rule versus intentionally and knowingly trying to cheat and win. You forgot to put on your life vest while under big motor power? OK, you broke a safety rule and you are zeroed. I don't see where not wearing your life vest added to your total catch weight at the scales.


Agreed.

We brought six fish into weigh-in once at Fork (danged black live wells) and culled at the dock. We won the event & passed the Poly. After the tourney was over the TD came to me and told me someone had seen us culling at the dock. Having more than five fish in the well was a violation of the rules. He asked if we would withdraw our catch and I agreed. That way we did not have a DQ on our record.



It was at that moment, the Legend of "Six Fish" Ken was born...



"Six Fish"

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#MFGA
Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: txsuperman] #13118238 04/09/19 03:49 AM
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If what is taken in is actually being paid out, then I will stand corrected and gladly admit I am wrong. Its just very difficult to see and understand how a 200 plus team event only pays out a 1,000$ scholarship. If I am wrong for questioning that then so be it. My apologies for highjacking the thread also.

Good luck to all the competitors this weekend on Hubbard.

Last edited by Chris Robinson; 04/09/19 04:10 AM.
Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Chris Robinson] #13118247 04/09/19 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
If what is taken in is actually being paid out, then I will stand corrected and gladly admit I am wrong. Its just very difficult to see and understand how a 200 plus team event only pays out a 1,000$ scholarship. If I am wrong for questioning that then so be it. My apologies for highjacking the thread also.

Good luck to all the competitors this weekend on Hubbard.



The overwhelming majority of the scholarships are paid out at the regional and state tournaments, not the regular season tournaments.

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Txduckhunter] #13118249 04/09/19 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Txduckhunter
waiting on le95 to make his rant....


http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=975566

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Chris Robinson] #13118362 04/09/19 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
If what is taken in is actually being paid out, then I will stand corrected and gladly admit I am wrong. Its just very difficult to see and understand how a 200 plus team event only pays out a 1,000$ scholarship. If I am wrong for questioning that then so be it. My apologies for highjacking the thread also.

Good luck to all the competitors this weekend on Hubbard.



Chris
Your math isn't good to start with. My sons Texas East division has about 125-135 teams per event, not 200 plus.
Some of the posts you are seeing about 500+ teams is SETX high school fishing...(cannot imagine 500+)

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: McLovin’] #13118393 04/09/19 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mudbone
Originally Posted by Chris Robinson
If what is taken in is actually being paid out, then I will stand corrected and gladly admit I am wrong. Its just very difficult to see and understand how a 200 plus team event only pays out a 1,000$ scholarship. If I am wrong for questioning that then so be it. My apologies for highjacking the thread also.

Good luck to all the competitors this weekend on Hubbard.



Chris
Your math isn't good to start with. My sons Texas East division has about 125-135 teams per event, not 200 plus.
Some of the posts you are seeing about 500+ teams is SETX high school fishing...(cannot imagine 500+)



Dont worry, since he said "if what is taken in is actually being paid out, then I will stand corrected and gladly admit I am wrong", then I am sure he will do the research to confirm whether he was right or wrong and come back here to let all of us know about his findings. There is no way he is just going to post some unsubstantiated numbers and then not follow through once the organization told him exactly how to get the real numbers.

Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: Sinkey] #13118404 04/09/19 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sinkey
I commend both guys for coming on here and telling their side of it. To me there is a huge difference in someone doing something stupid during the heat of the battle. And someone cheating on purpose.

Live and learn and get better. That's all you can do.

Thanks for being men and stepping up to what you guys did. Good luck the rest of yall's seasons.

Read through this entire thread and I think this is what I came away thinking.

As for the kids/captain/etc., I think it seems unfair and probably is very difficult to stomach right now given the hard work you probably put in, but these are good life lessons to learn in high school when the stakes are low. You'd hate to lose a truck or a boat on something like this down the road, or have something happen outside of the fishing realm that this lesson could apply to. My boss, who I have come to really like, once told me to treat everything in life as a learning experience. That's good advice for you right now - don't sweat the results too much. Learn what you can and move on and keep working hard like you did this time and it'll pay off eventually.


Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
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Re: Lewiville HS Tourny. Top 2 DQ'd?? [Re: txsuperman] #13118601 04/09/19 04:33 PM
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I'm in my fifth year as a boat captain for THSBA, and for three of those years, I've been a team advisor. I just have to say that many of the posts in this thread aren't an accurate reflection of the organization or the boat captains and anglers who are participating. The VAST majority of competitors I see on the water are great people who compete fairly. They're the kind of people I think most fishermen are; good, down-to-earth people who enjoy being outdoors and chasing those green fish that can drive you nuts.

All of the people I've dealt with at THSBA (and the list is long) have been great. Each of those people is overwhelmed with work to get our young anglers on the water, but you'd never know it in the way they deal with you. They're polite, friendly, and I think they're that way because they are passionate about providing this experience for our young anglers. It's an important responsibility. Many of these anglers are headed to college teams, and the experience they have with the THSBA prepares them well for that.

Sure, there are people who don't care about the rules, but they are a tiny minority of people. The majority are great people, among the best you'll meet anywhere. I don't know Ben and Briggs, but I know many people who do know them (including my son), and every single one of those people attests to their high character. On the afternoon of regionals, my son told me, "Dad, I don't know what happened, but I know those boys and they are great kids. I guarantee you they didn't cheat. It was something else." In my experience, most of the people in the THSBA are like Ben and Briggs.

If you're a boat owner and are considering taking on a couple of kids as a captain, don't let this thread deter you! I captained a couple of boys before my son made it to high school. They fished all season and didn't catch a single keeper, but they still had a great time, and I had a great time with them. Every year, our team struggles to try and get everyone who wants to fish on the water. Boat captain shortages are the number 1 reason why kids who really want to fish don't make it onto the water. We absolutely need volunteer captains!

Jim

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