I haven't posted here before, but thanks to spending a day with one of the members here, I'm pretty confident I can get into carp/buffalo fishing with pack baits and hair rigs. Being a fly tier from way back, making hair rigs with a nail knot tool is second nature. However, it only took a little while to decide that I hate braided line for hair rigs. It's easy enough to work with, but it's a bear to cut, especially nail knots tied to the hook shanks. I also worry about where the rig will break if snagged using braid for the hair rig. However, if told I need braid for the hair, it would be easy to make rigs with mono tied to the hook eye, and braid added for the hair only. Would appreciate opinions from this group....thanks.

I use braid 100 per cent of the time on my hair rigs. I use a knotless knot to attach the hook. It's easy and I like the way the line lays using braid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ABlZ8F6nmo

all i really like is 50 lb power pro .i have used mono (20lb test) too and it works well but i always wonder if it will hold to a big fish over 30 lbs . i have tried coated braids , actual carp hook link material but alway go back to 50lb pp.... about the pp its best to put your hook on the method ball to prevent tangles on a cast .as far as hard to cut i just use any scissors and hold the end of the braid with my canines and when i cut i kinda saw and close the scissors at the same time , ithey make special braid scissors but if you do it the way i suggest you can cut it with kids scissors pretty easily

Thank you both for the feedback. Even just doing a few rigs, I do like braid...it knots better and spreads easier on the hair. But I'm still trying to figure out how to get the line to fail in the right place...downstream of the swivel to still keep your weight. I'lll be fishing in a marina almost straight down, but there are cables and such underwater to get hung up on. I can see using a short piece of braid on the hair rig, but some light mono from the hook to the swivel. A nail knot is a bit different than a knotless in that, with the tool, after the wraps, the tag end goes through the wraps so no eye is needed to finish the knot. I can use a nail knot to add the hair, which can slide along the shank, then finish the rig with a mono knot less. That gives me a short mono section from the hook to the swivel of lower breaking strength. It's also real easy to get a consistent hair length after tying the "stop knot" (figure 8) first. I think Combi rigs make a similar transition from braid on the hook to mono/fluoro to the swivel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJUXmde-Uz4

When I fish more straight up and down, I do not use a hair rig. I use a simple carolina rig with about a 6 or so inch hook length between the swivel and the hook. I use as small an egg sinker as I can get away with above the swivel.

Curt...thanks. Makes sense. Since I'm fishing off the back of my boat in the Marina, I can bait the area off the stern frequently, and boiled deer corn seems to fit the bill. Whether I also need to use pack bait with hair rigs is still to be tested, but as a long time fly tier, the different hair rigs seem like a fun area to explore. I picked up some 1 oz. No Roll sinkers at BP yesterday, and I should be able to use those with and without pack bait to learn if the pack bait makes a large difference. I can do the same with or without hair rigs, but I worry I may deal with catfish more often if I'm baiting directly on the hook.

Kaboboom, i would get a ag of range cubes from tractor supply and bait up your spot with them for a couple of days the fish the third day if possible , canned corn thrown out with your hand would be good too . then i would just use what Curt says . you should have fun . sometimes the cats eat first then the carp and buffs will be right behind them

WRJ, yes, range cube baiting has been strongly suggested. I think I will do as you and Curt suggest when I invite others, and skip the method/pack bait piece after baiting with cubes. But hair rigs and pack baits seem like such a fun box to open, and the wife is so happy to use her Instapot, I got a 50 # bag of boiled deer corn to chuck out a gallon or so often. Thanks again to both of you for the suggestions

Kaboboom, where are you fishing? Is the water very deep? If the water isn't very deep, you might get away without using any weight at all if fishing vertically. Just keep an eye on the rods.

Curt, I'm in Bayview Marina (Ray Hubbard) at 25 ft. And I got some strike detectors just today and I have a couple of rod holders on the rail. Usually just tie flies for an occasional trout outing, but after seeing some carp and buffalo caught by some guests, figured it was time to give it a go. As a kid, my first fishing passion was for carp on a (then) polluted river in Indiana. We'd hit up the gas stations for used spark plugs, tap the gap closed, and use them as sinkers. We'd each put on our secret dough balls, open the bail, and wait for the line to shoot off. Carp are kind of an old friend.

kabo, I've had a lot of fun and luck baiting with simple canned corn (each of 3 days prior for bank fish) just a can a day was enough--boiled corn is cheaper but less convenient. Then a 1/4 can on the day of fishing (use 2-3 bits of corn on your hook).
For bank fishing, an easy and light weight Carolina rig is sufficient. However, a light splitshot rig does the trick as well--unweighted would be ideal. You want to drop your bait right in the area you pitched your 1/4 can of corn.
Hair rigs are cool. The reservoir carp just don't see enough pressure to require technical rigging, in my experience.
Line and reel choice is something to consider. The carp like to run, but they run up near the surface. So, all that boaty stuff hanging in the water around you can become tangling traps if you can't pull them in close, quickly.

Ed, there's a small muddy lake in a nearby subdivision crawling with carp and little else. No one fishes there. Last Spring, I hit it several times with a fly rod, but only managed a half dozen fish and had days without a single take. When I go back, I may try baiting with corn as you suggest, and throw fake corn with my fly rod. The fly guys would hate me, but maybe the carp guys would understand.

Glad to see you posting Bob! We've got a lot of helpful suggestions so far, but don't get too hung up on tying hair rigs or even the hair portion of the rig with braid. While braid may be the most popular line to use for tying carp rigs, all types of line can be used and change the mechanics of the rig. As you know, I prefer to use a coated braid and take advantage of the slightly stiffer coated section and the more supple uncoated portion, but rigs can be made from mono, fluoro, or even plain braid. Rigs composed entirely of mono or fluoro will be "stiff rigs" and there are even hybrid rigs which you've already mentioned, the combi and reverse combi which tie different types of lines together to take advantage of the stiffness/suppleness.

Ed, corn on the hook certainly works well and will catch fish but hair rigs aren't meant for pressured fish, they're designed to take advantage of the carp's unique feeding habits. Over in the UK they still catch on freelined bread and corn right on the hook and their fish are very pressured, but hair rigs are the most popular simply because they work the best. The more specialized rigs are designed for function (IE chod rig for fishing over weed) as opposed to tricking pressured fish so they work just as well on our waters.

All good stuff that I can start diving into. If throwing hair rigs with a fly rod takes off, you heard it here first...

Ray Hubbard is home to some really nice fish. A lot of big buffs have been caught from the various marinas. Carp too. The deep water is a plus. But as stated above, pre-baiting is the way to go. I use range cubes. Good luck.

OK, caught a 20 lb buff...my PB since it's the first...a nice 5-6 lb carp, and a 5 lb cat. Had a couple of large fish come off. My pack bait was improved over the catsup/rice I tried first , and I think my Combi hair rig was an upgrade to the first ones I made. Those underwater vids on another thread here really helped. Can see that if the rod tip is just diddlin', it most likely a cat that won't mess with your baited hair. I'm almost convinced (this will change) that the carp and buffs will hook themselves, and if they aren't, the hair rig needs some more work. Thanks to all for the advice...I used quite a bit of it.

A 20 pounder is a great start. Well done.

Definitely a nice start! The hair rig is designed to set itself, but for finicky fish and buffalo you may have to set it. The rig I showed you is fairly optimized for buffalo although you could make some time consuming improvements like using a proper reverse combi with a supple hair. One of the guys I've read a lot of used to guide for buffalo, and even though he used the best rig for the job oftentimes he'd still set the hook with proper timing of the lift/drop cycle simply because it nets you many more fish once you've got it down.

Thanks. I had what I believe was a large buff and didn't even know he was hooked. Thought I was snagged. Hook pulled out half way up without him making a run. From what I've seen/read, the Combi rig favors a curved, down eye hook. Ordered some from Allen hooks in 6 and 8. Not carp hooks per se...scud/sowbug fly tying hooks that the early hair rig builders adopted before specialized carp hooks came to market. $3.50 for 25. Would have also got some 4s, but scud hooks don't run that large because scuds don't. I was very tempted on the "pump and dump" bite, but figured it was a cat. I'll be setting on a few next time.

For any decent fly tier, hair rigs are easy. Tell me a hook, say what hair line type you want, say how many millimeters you want the hair to come off the shank, tell me if you want it to be adjustable...no problem. I'm just finishing with a knotless on a mono leader. I did get snagged on the cable. Broke off at the hook as planned.

Sometimes you'll go to pull in your rods to rebait or go home and a buff will be on the end of the line just hanging out. They just don't seem to feel the hook. Setting the hook on a buff is certainly a learning process and much more difficult the higher the wind is but there's no better feeling than watching that line go tight, giving a "Texas whip" hookset and seeing your rod double over

Thanks for the lead on the reverse Combi...gotta get me some long shank 2x wire hooks, tippet rings and tungsten putty. I'll use braid for the hair, stiff mono to lighter mono to the swivel rather than braid. I have to keep that engineered break off. Or should I get those screw-in-the boilie thingys and some boilies? So many options...

Lol, definitely a ton of options. Carp angling can be super simple or highly, highly specialized. I haven't used bait screws myself but they're always tempting me when I'm checking out tackle online. I mostly use boilies and tigernuts but a fair few guys exclusively use corn. Often corn will get you more fish with some small and some large mixed in, whereas boilies will net you less fish overall but you'll notice a jump in average size. Usually I'll have 3 different baits out on each of my rods and switch it up if I feel the need or the fish tell me they have a preference on that particular day.

Great fish!
For the buffs that were throwing my hooks, upping to size 4 (from a 6) treble increased my catch rate.

Trebles are quite bad for the fish and in my experience you get more hookups and more secure hookholds with single hooks. I've never had a buffalo shake my hook, they've only gotten away if they get snagged up. I had a 34lb buff on a size 10 Gamakatsu G-Carp that I horsed like I was fishing salwater, pumping and reeling like mad (I was forced to, he took a fast run right off the bat and formed a knot around my spool). The buffalo was on the surface of the water in roughly 5 seconds after I picked up the rod, and I kept at it till I felt secure that I could play him normally. Hook held up so great I ended up landing a 22lb 12oz carp later on in the day on the same exact rig.

One thing I found works real great for me: it is HrviCore from TUFLINE "sinking core design".
I have it in sizes 30# and 50#.
Works like no other line if you want your bait to be sure on a bottom.

Thought I'd show where I netted out on making my Hair Rigs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NP1LJki--hc