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Hey machine shop guys
#12679928
03/19/18 07:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454
Bigbob_FTW
OP
Big Sprocket Bob
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OP
Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454 |
Any of you run NC machines in a non climate controlled shop? just wondering if we're the only one out there.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12679949
03/19/18 07:16 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,363
Bass&More
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,363 |
Any of you run NC machines in a non climate controlled shop? just wondering if we're the only one out there. We have a couple of shops non climate controlled with NC machines. They run parts with MAC/DAC greater than +/-.005. I refer to them as non critical parts such as dog bowls and hamster wheel manufacturers
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bass&More]
#12679996
03/19/18 07:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454
Bigbob_FTW
OP
Big Sprocket Bob
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OP
Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454 |
Any of you run NC machines in a non climate controlled shop? just wondering if we're the only one out there. We have a couple of shops non climate controlled with NC machines. They run parts with MAC/DAC greater than +/-.005. I refer to them as non critical parts such as dog bowls and hamster wheel manufacturers they want us to hold .001 and wonder why we laugh. Hell, at the price of that machine it should hold .0001.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680100
03/19/18 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,363
Bass&More
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 11,363 |
Any of you run an ambient NC machines in a non climate controlled shop? just wondering if we're the only one out there. We have a couple of shops non climate controlled with NC machines. They run parts with MAC/DAC greater than +/-.005. I refer to them as non critical parts such as dog bowls and hamster wheel manufacturers they want us to hold .001 and wonder why we laugh. Hell, at the price of that machine it should hold .0001. Holding +/-.001 is nothing more than a wish/ luck and can no way be sustained on an ambient NC machine. Do you have any type of predictable tooling, gage R&R that also associates and supports that type of manufacturing on a consistent level? More than likely the tight tolerance is set by engineering for MAC when the DAC will be more like .003- .005. Whatever ever it is, it is deceptive from a design or mechanical engineering standpoint of micro management it sounds like to me.
Last edited by Bass&More; 03/19/18 08:33 PM.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680278
03/19/18 10:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,900
MBarger
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,900 |
For all the additions. they could have had a new climate controlled shop and a more productive lay out..but that is just my .02
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bass&More]
#12680287
03/19/18 10:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454
Bigbob_FTW
OP
Big Sprocket Bob
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OP
Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454 |
Any of you run an ambient NC machines in a non climate controlled shop? just wondering if we're the only one out there. We have a couple of shops non climate controlled with NC machines. They run parts with MAC/DAC greater than +/-.005. I refer to them as non critical parts such as dog bowls and hamster wheel manufacturers they want us to hold .001 and wonder why we laugh. Hell, at the price of that machine it should hold .0001. Holding +/-.001 is nothing more than a wish/ luck and can no way be sustained on an ambient NC machine. Do you have any type of predictable tooling, gage R&R that also associates and supports that type of manufacturing on a consistent level? More than likely the tight tolerance is set by engineering for MAC when the DAC will be more like .003- .005. Whatever ever it is, it is deceptive from a design or mechanical engineering standpoint of micro management it sounds like to me. You bring up a good point. Its not all about the machine. Measuring tools, material temp, ambient temp all play a role. Doing something once is easy. Repeating it several hundred times is not. We do have a very nice cmm and calibration dept that's climate controlled.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: MBarger]
#12680289
03/19/18 10:29 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454
Bigbob_FTW
OP
Big Sprocket Bob
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OP
Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454 |
For all the additions. they could have had a new climate controlled shop and a more productive lay out..but that is just my .02 They are making huge changes. Just no ac.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680383
03/19/18 11:41 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,935
mstring
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,935 |
When I was younger I worked in a machine shop that was basically in a tin barn. No A/C and no heat. Felt like standing in front of an oven in summer and coolant would freeze in the winter. Don't remember holding tolerances being an issue. Of course we were making mud pumps and such so tolerances may not have been that critical.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680386
03/19/18 11:43 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,935
mstring
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,935 |
When I was younger I worked in a machine shop that was basically in a tin barn. No A/C and no heat. Felt like standing in front of an oven in summer and coolant would freeze in the winter. Don't remember holding tolerances being an issue. Of course we were making mud pumps and such so tolerances may not have been that critical. Heck, what wasn't done on the CNC machines was done on manual machines that most had tags on them from being an old WWII production machine.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: mstring]
#12680407
03/19/18 11:52 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454
Bigbob_FTW
OP
Big Sprocket Bob
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OP
Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454 |
When I was younger I worked in a machine shop that was basically in a tin barn. No A/C and no heat. Felt like standing in front of an oven in summer and coolant would freeze in the winter. Don't remember holding tolerances being an issue. Of course we were making mud pumps and such so tolerances may not have been that critical. Heck, what wasn't done on the CNC machines was done on manual machines that most had tags on them from being an old WWII production machine. We're still running some bullards and w&s turret and engine lathes. Heck, we still have one machine that was converted to electricity.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680484
03/20/18 12:47 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,935
mstring
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,935 |
When I was younger I worked in a machine shop that was basically in a tin barn. No A/C and no heat. Felt like standing in front of an oven in summer and coolant would freeze in the winter. Don't remember holding tolerances being an issue. Of course we were making mud pumps and such so tolerances may not have been that critical. Heck, what wasn't done on the CNC machines was done on manual machines that most had tags on them from being an old WWII production machine. We're still running some bullards and w&s turret and engine lathes. Heck, we still have one machine that was converted to electricity. Yep, another shop I worked at flooded in 1990. The only machines that worked afterward were the ones converted from overhead belt drive and had the motors up high.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680518
03/20/18 01:09 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,200
Kay Dyson
HOT Mess!!!
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HOT Mess!!!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,200 |
NC machines don't require a climate controlled environment judging from shops I've been in over the last 40 yrs.. However I've had aluminum parts grow or shrink from morning to evenings in the summer, up to plus/minus .003..
CNC machines will hold much tighter tolerances.. I had Makino's and Haus machines that could hold .00015 Mostly on precision bores, only way to check that is with air gauges... Requires a top Machinist, not an operator, and a climate controlled environment.. Those CNC machines being primarily a big computer, like it cool also.... Bell helicopter is the one that's a pain in the azz for tight tolerance bores... We made tons of monolithic air frame parts that called for plus/minus .005 on most dimensions.. That was Gravey..
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Kay Dyson]
#12680532
03/20/18 01:14 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454
Bigbob_FTW
OP
Big Sprocket Bob
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OP
Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 102,454 |
NC machines don't require a climate controlled environment judging from shops I've been in over the last 40 yrs.. However I've had aluminum parts grow or shrink from morning to evenings in the summer, up to plus/minus .003..
CNC machines will hold much tighter tolerances.. I had Makino's and Haus machines that could hold .00015 Mostly on precision bores, only way to check that is with air gauges... Requires a top Machinist, not an operator, and a climate controlled environment.. Those CNC machines being primarily a big computer, like it cool also.... Bell helicopter is the one that's a pain in the azz for tight tolerance bores... We made tons of monolithic air frame parts that called for plus/minus .005 on most dimensions.. That was Gravey.. Running uhmw is insane, you have to chase offsets all day. Bores arev typically our tight tolerances. We grind a lot. We had lots of mori and Haas. Seeing mazak coming in now.
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680618
03/20/18 02:09 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,114
MARKIT
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,114 |
Most of our shop is not under A.C. or heat It Is in the plans, but summers right around the corner
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Re: Hey machine shop guys
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#12680731
03/20/18 03:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,120
j.steve
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 7,120 |
We have both NC and CNC. Hope to drag the last remaining tape machines, Mazak, out to the back 40 soon. No AC and barely any heat and dirty as all get out. We have some old Daewoo's some newer Daewoo's from right before Doosan bought them and have one big Doosan. Have 2 Haas lathes that don't impress me at all and the 5 Haas mills aren't much more dependable. Everyone seems to think Haas must be the cats meow cause all the schools have them. Ever thought that maybe they were the lowest bidder?
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