Yes, I've been on LOZ, it's a nightmare. I've been on Lake Ontario in 8 foot seas, Toledo, Rayburn and Falcon at their worst, Travis here is the same deal.

If you didn't know, I was on the Champion factory staff from '84 until '01, so yes, I know how well a boat can ride.

What we don't know, we just don't know. Even in the nastiest situations, cruiser wakes, etc the more responsive hull can and will ride better, *IF* the pilot knows what they're doing. If they don't then yes, a big heavy tub will suit them better. Your analogy to the vette is true, if you just point at a pothole and bash it. If you're good enough to drive around the hole, then it changes.

Ranger has been using vacumm bagging for quite some time now. I would think by now this is the industry standard. Is it not? Don't get me wrong Pat, I know alot of guys will say why do you need to go fast, the fish can't swim that fast, but I like a fast boat. The Ranger I have is fast enough right now, but maybe some day it won't be, and I will be looking for an Allison. But for now, I like the minimal effort in bashing through the big rollers. I guess it comes down to what a persons particular priorities are. I would like to try an Allison some day, but I have never driven a boat that fast, I would need to learn it.

I guess I started something here. Who's turn is it, I lost track.

When did Ranger start vacuum bagging their hulls? If so, it's in the past few months.

The only bass boat built with the process to my knowledge is Bass Cat.

Genmar, parent company of Ranger, Stratos and Champ use the V.E.C. vacuum process on the Larson and Glastron runabouts, but it's limited and only feasable in high volume production. Plus it's a gelcoat only process, no flake finish with it. Which would be death to a bass boat company. Irwin Jacobs, Genmars C.E.O was lobbying hard for making the process mandatory, which of course would run off a lot of the smaller boat companies, due to the huge capital investment it would require.

Tracker is trying to implement the process with the new Nitro. Lance Williams is a big fan of the process, he was with Champion before they were bought by Genmar.

What it all boils down to, fiberglass construction is just a chemical process, turning a liquid into a solid. The less operator involvement the better, as consistency is their main process problem.

So what you are saying is that automation in the construction process is where the real advances in boat building will come in the future? Consistency through automation will take the human factor out. I would think people like Jacobs would want production consistency thoughout their product lines. That being said, I would think what the future holds for Ranger, Champion, and Stratos is that their lines would evolve into something like Caddy, Buick, and Chevy.....The boat basic building process being the same, but one brand being an "upgrade" over the other?

That's exactly where logic would take it.

However...the problem is, it's too easy to build a boat in a horse shed. Just look at the thousands of used to be boat builders, especially bass boats.

Now you're seeing them in the bay/flats boats, splash a hull, come up with a decent cap mold, or even better a rolled edge hull, and you too can be a boat building tycoon!

Again, the V.E.C. process is quite impressive, as it removes the excess resin from the laminate, and allows an enviornment free cure process. The equipment is very expensive, and it would demand quite high volume to justify the expense.

Vacuum bagging is much less expensive to do, but it still requires a lot of operator involvement.

Sounds to me like in the near future there is going to be a separation between Volume sellers and the "custom" builders.
There are some pretty darn good boats out there that are not volume sales companies, Allison, Stroker, Gambler, Bullet, being just a few. It sounds to me like in order to compete without going to the expense of buying the V.E.C. equipment, they are going to have to offer something else...What will that be, capitalizing on "hand made" or something like that?

Some people will always pay a premium for a premium product that either sets them apart from the ordinary or does something unique. You see this in cars, watches, motorcycles, etc... A Timex does the same thing as a Rolex, however Rolex continues to sell unique, high quality watches to a special clientele. Honda makes a great motorcycle, however if you want a higher quality, more unique motorcycle, you can pay the money for a Ducati, BiMota, etc...You will not see your motorcycle everytime you round a corner.

That being said, Bullet, Allison, Gambler, Stroker will continue to do what they have done in the past. Offer a unique, high quality, higher performance, limited production boat that appeals to a certain clientele.

Personally, I like Rangers, Champions, Skeeters, Tritons.......however I have a Bullet for many of the reasons stated above. I like the quality, performance, fishablity, and uniqueness that it brings. I see very few Bullets here in East Texas and I always get comments when I make it to the lake. It just seems I don't get there enough.

That's what the video on the Ranger site says. Maybe they only use vacumm bagging on only part of it. Did I miss something?

Are they actually using the bag process in making the hull laminate or just using it to bond down the stringers and storage boxes?

This discussion could go on for another 27 pages. The bottom line is "heavy" doesn't always translate into "strong" as many of you are led to believe. That is why the connecting rods and intake valves in my new Z06 Corvette are titanium not carbon steel.

Those of us that are wlling to pay the difference and have an interest in learning to "drive" a boat know what the difference is.

If "heavy" meant "strong", everything would be made of lead.

Ken

Why don't you read all the posts before you start bragging about your vette or your ability to "drive" a boat. I'd be willing to bet that I have a whole lot more seat time than you, and while Heavier may not necessarily equate to stronger, it does equate to being able to keep the boat under you when your running into a head wind and the air gets underneath the boat and almost flips you over. They don't put air dams on boats like NASCAR does to prevent flipping.

Now it's going to get strange...

Driving to where you "catch" air and blow over would indeed fall under "driver error".

I wasn't driving, but I was certainly in the boat. A gust got underneath it as we were trying to get back to the ramp at Rayburn in a fast moving thunder storm, and you could sure feel the nose of the boat going up. Boy did it slam down. Wouldn't you agree that it would be more likely to happen on a lighter boat than a heavy one? It was a light hull by the way...

I really did not mean to hi-jack the topic, but I think there have been some pretty worthwhile discussions had on this thread.
I guess personally I see a lot of merit in both light and heavy hulls. I'm sure some of the light hulls are just as strong as heavy hulls, but you gotta admit that some are not all that well constructed, they just go fast. I think you can say the same for some of the heavy hulls out there as well. They are not all that well constructed, they're just heavy.