karpstapo
you wrote:
"I still fish with my bait caster/lure using friends. They are only minimally interested in the fly scene. One friend had an instructor yell at him the whole time during a lesson he took to learn how to cast. He's burned on fly fishing for life. Another friend tried it after seeing me go at it, but bought some bad gear that quickly fell apart in the salt water environment."
These are excellent points of why some folks never hook into fly fishing. No one wants to be scolded for "not getting it" quickly enough. When I helped introduce the Fly Fish 101 at my club, I was thinking about scenarios like these where a fly fisher gets casting lesson from a book and or from You Tube and off they go... or not. The original premise of Fly Fish 101 was helping new fly fishers (members or not) get some basic casting instruction and wet a line, with the help of a more experience caster, with hopes of connecting with a fish. It has proved to be a better way for introducing folks to fly fishing. After all, we want to fish don't we?


Les

Since this topic seems to have already jumped the track, I'll continue down the new path.

I suspect that most of us fly fish for entertainment and recreation. So, shouldn't a casting lesson be enjoyable? If it is not fun, then why do it?

I have met a few instructors that don't share that view. Thankfully, they are the minority.

I've walked into a few fly shops that don't seem to understand that concept either. They usually don't stay open very long...

Living Waters was mentioned earlier. That shop "gets it". When I visited it, they had a good selection of fly tying materials that I wanted and they definitely made me feel very welcome.

Living Waters definitely gets it, they also have a fly tying nights and monthly instruction events where they bring people in and help lower the barrier of entry to the sport. Having a monthly get together to show people where to fish and what flies to use helps create a feedback loop where customers return when that info leads to positive fishing experiences. Do some people come in, get the info and go place orders on Amazon? Probably, but it also brings in people like me who want to support them for the good things they do. It also helps that Chris and Emily take the time to get to know and remember their customers.

I think you can extend that reasoning outlined earlier in this thread to any business whether it's a fly shop, restaurant, sporting goods store, or grocery store. If excellent service was routine, it would no longer be excellent. The sad fact of capitalism is that some businesses will thrive while others will die and be replaced. There is still room for both in this world, but I think the key for traditional brick and mortars is focusing on service and knowledge, something online retailers can't provide.

well stated MassAction.

check out Bayou City Anglers- run by Stacy Lyn (formerly fly fishing manager of Sportman's Finest) and she has a cadre of well trained young fly fishers who are more than helpful. Ask for Dylan if you like.

Les

Cool, I get to Houston once in a while. I need to make more of an effort to get there.

I still wear my Blue Heron cap.....

Backwoods literally stinks. Everytime i shopped at this store they followed me around and tried to get me to spend more on higher priced items. Im sorry for the bad publicity but they need to keep their customers needs and wants in mind before their own! I bought a padle board from them and they never gave me the fins for it that i needed. After i called the manufacturer and they said them fins should of came with the board backwoods insisted i buy more??? Sell me what i want. I went in again to have a paddle board orderd from them and they quoted me 500.00 for shipping alone,,,, and really didnt want to sell me anything other than what they had on the showroom floor. Thats fine " i bought the board" that sameday straight from the manaufacturer for 50.00 shipping to my door with zero tax over online. I got over 9k now in my boards and rods and im sorry to say most of it is from online because of that. Unwelcoming place i only hope they can do better in the future

I don't know if the whole DIY thing isn't factored in enough. My washing machine stopped working. In the not too distance past, that would mean deciding on whether or not to call the repair guy or just junk the machine and start over with a new one. But wait, let's see if there is a YouTube video on this. Sure enough, there was. The cost of the part and a little elbow grease later, the machine is as good as new. I probably did it for 4x less than what the repair guy would have done it for. Not ragging on him. He would have come out, diagnosed, ordered, and come back for install, that's money.

This story is repeated for car repair ( I do that now thanks to YouTube and Rockauto). In fact, I did a repair on my truck that cost me $16 in parts and about an hour of time that the exact same repair cost $250 previously at the shop. Cell phone screen, $70 DIY vs $200 in shop replacement (thank you YouTube and Amazon) and there's legions of others like me doing DIY learn how to do anything. Expertise has been democratized via YouTube and the interest board forum.

That is how I learned to fly fish. Browse the boards, look at videos, filmed my cast, compared it to the pros, refine, repeat. I already knew how to fish, learned via trial and error, mimicry, interest forum boards and YouTube. Want to tie flies, yep, there are scores of videos on that. Whatever expertise is in the fly shop is probably also on YouTube or an Internet board like this one. I can mull over my next rod purchase and read dozens of comments about the pros and cons of said rod. The fly store will give me one or two perspectives and possibly some negative vibe with it. Yes, I can't put my hands on it via the web. But, many others have and will let you know their feelings. After a while, you find some individuals out there that see things in the same basic way you do. Their perspective and experience becomes something to value. And then when you are ready to purchase, you can shop around without burning any gas. One click, days later, it's at your door.

So I am beginning to distill this excellent thread. The long lost art of customer service is paramount. Knowledge. Product. Establishing relationships. Being willing to order for a customer. AND I have a wish, for shops that integrate their business - customers - local guides - other interests (like photography lessons / boater education / environmental concerns / non-profit organizations, etc...) on a consistent basis.

One of the worst experiences I have had is shopping at Best Buy, where they never have music CD's anymore - even Grammy winners. So I go in to buy, and the reply, when I finally have to ask if they have it is: "No, but have you checked online?" I want to come back at them, but it's just not worth the bother. I think they must've figured out that is bad service, because I don't hear it anymore.

I kind of tried a flip-flop thing with bringing back my old PoPs Fly Shop. It's online, but there's no shop, no store. The site serves as a contact point for a customer to look and see what they may want, then contact me personally to talk about the order. Why sell a guy trout flies if he's going to the coast? It is almost the opposite of "online buying" - there's customer service, information, and personal interaction with maybe a little knowledge thrown in. The website is just a starting point.

I understand that the demise of the Austin Angler was because of people coming in to try different rods etc and then going home and ordering online. I always tried to buy there myself. We had a fly shop in Port Isabel for awhile but again I understand that there was not enough traffic to pay the rent much less make a decent wage. Just mi dos pesos.

Larry Haines at Port Isabel, TX, gave it a good long go. But fly fishing, in general, is a small part of the overall fishing market. I believe, in his case he decided to retire.
If I am not mistaken, Austin Angler came and went long before the internet monster reared its beautiful ugly head.
Stopped in at the new location for Backwoods Fort Worth today - did my penance. Will run a follow-up this week, quotes and all.

Nope, the Angler didn't close until 2004, well into the Internet heydey. That was my only local fly shop and I really liked the place and the guys in there. I think some of its issues was that it was difficult to get to, hardly any parking, and you had to cast rods in the parking lot off Congress.

What no one has mentioned is that fly shops, like most specialty shops, sort of hang their hat on having high-quality gear and personal service. That was fine when there was nothing but high-quality fly fishing gear available but after the movie and the Internet, everyday people started getting into it that didn't want to spend that kinda money. Then there was this huge influx of lower-cost options, and I think some of the people who would've frequented a fly shop started going the other route too. When one of those new customers would go into the shop, they'd get a sticker shock and then I don't know if they'd get the warmest welcome. Then the elitist attitude got associated. I remember when I was first starting (and sometimes still) feeling that I don't belong in some fly shops.

Seems like it's kind of natural for specialty shops to suffer this phenomenon. Fly shops like Living Waters that do well know to make it as much as an everyman's experience as they can with attitude and varied products, and still be a specialty shop. Sportsman's Finest in west Austin carries mostly high-end stuff and is in a well to do area. They could easily have gone the elitist route, but they're very helpful, welcoming, and qualified.

GSlayer: Backwoods has never quoted anyone $500 for special order shipping on anything. That is ridiculous. We don't even charge shipping on special ordered kayaks. Perhaps you misunderstood whomever was trying to help you. If you purchased a Bote Flood inflatable board from us, yes, there are slots for 3 fins, but it only comes with the center fin. It clearly states that on Bote's website. I am sorry that you do not care for Backwoods, but please do not spread inaccurate information about us. Thank you.

Sorry, my followup to this was delayed by things! Let me get that out in the next few minutes - the photos of the store anyway!