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Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: Flippin-Out] #11644779 06/03/16 03:51 PM
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hopalong Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flippin-Out
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Has anybody seen the new Nav lights on the Nitros? I look at the boats when I go to Bass Pro and I cannot see how their lights meet the standards; but surely they do.


You may have missed the thread where I discussed a special report made by the USCG. Their limited ability to inspect and oversee compliance by boat manufacturers has resulted in the manufacturers losing focus on abiding by the rules. Market demand for a cool pimped-out look has driven them to forget about the rulebook in some areas. In recent years, an unhealthy trend of poor adherence to regulations has been developing. The report discussed audit findings where numerous deficiencies were noted and correction notices were given to manufacturers. Unfortunately, the USCG must count on self-policing by manufacturers as they can't inspect every production plant. Just because a production plant built it doesn't mean it passes USCG muster, and they have a problem with this. The CG was clear that finding violations on in-production hulls was all too common. They are working on cooperative outreach efforts to make manufacturers more aware of regulations and bring attention to compliance and correction of bad designs. Compliance comes ahead of "cool" in the priority scheme.

That same USCG concern has bubbled down to the individual owner level as well. To that end, the CG has issued the following safety alert:

USCG Safety Alert



tell ya what, you spend the 50.00 on the rule book and let me read it. https://abyc.site-ym.com/store/ViewProduct.aspx?id=1445145

any org. that would implement rules that a fed. agency enforces does not have a right to charge for said rules or the fed. agency has no right to enforce said rules due to the restrictive nature of obtaining said rules.


as for the dam lights, go out and look at your dam pole lights and post a picture of the certification label on them, not one you stuck there.

man, you guys just don't get it sometimes, if my bow led's exceed the requirement as set by the cg yet they don't like the fact that I do not have a stinkin rating label on them then let them ticket me and I will meet them in court with video/pnotos/the rules as written and beat them over the head with their own stupidity.


I have been on and owned boats for over 50 yrs. and have yet to see ANY agency (leo/gw/cg) look at a dam nav light on or off the water and I have been inspected many many times and asked to be quite a few.


use the lights you want to use and quit trying to tell everyone esle wth to do with their stuff. JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ


cheby/ford/dodge same chit.

Last edited by hopalong; 06/03/16 04:01 PM.
Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11644800 06/03/16 03:55 PM
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hopalong Offline
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my boat as it is, bow lights and I also have an led adjustable pole light for the stern, please don't try to tell me the bulb is illegal.






anchor lights




Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11644803 06/03/16 03:56 PM
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hopalong Offline
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now tell me how I am not safer with this lighting than 2 skinny poles with 1157 bulbs in them.


the anchor lights can be seen at least 5 miles on a clear night and over 1/2 mile in fog, we tried it out with other boats observing me.

Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11644985 06/03/16 04:53 PM
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David Burton Offline
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The USCG approval is with the packaging...



David Burton
2015 Skeeter FX 21 +Ultrex +Helix 12 (x3) +Mega360 +MegaLive
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11644997 06/03/16 04:58 PM
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Oh, you don't have to pay for regs in book form. You can get them directly from the Federal Register:

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/ECFR?page=browse


David Burton
2015 Skeeter FX 21 +Ultrex +Helix 12 (x3) +Mega360 +MegaLive
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646339 06/04/16 04:25 AM
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USCG is very stern on the use of aftermarket lighting. There have been dozens of questions on the topic, and while the actual lights may meet the USCG standard, the locations may not. Our lights do meet the location standards and some we don't know how as they (bow lights) are required to have 270 degrees of vision in their described use.

The rub rail insert lights, additions of lights and LED light kits visible from the outside, which conflict with those colors required, are in violation. Some we know violate it in operation, and some do not violate it.

There is a label or usually a molded script in the lens or molded on the light body, which describes the regulation number that is met. Stern lights are required to be one meter above the bow light at rest, and this is a requirement for newer boats after about 1984 or 1985. The meter usually requires a 54" post on a bass boat.

If you have the rub rail lighting, then you can run it in conjunction with the bow lights legally, or so it was described to us. Though you can not run just the rub rail lighting. This is generally not major issue, unless you are in an accident during a low light condition that requires lighting, and yours is not legal.

BCB


BCB
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: hopalong] #11646364 06/04/16 04:56 AM
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nate king Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: hopalong
Originally Posted By: Flippin-Out
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Has anybody seen the new Nav lights on the Nitros? I look at the boats when I go to Bass Pro and I cannot see how their lights meet the standards; but surely they do.


You may have missed the thread where I discussed a special report made by the USCG. Their limited ability to inspect and oversee compliance by boat manufacturers has resulted in the manufacturers losing focus on abiding by the rules. Market demand for a cool pimped-out look has driven them to forget about the rulebook in some areas. In recent years, an unhealthy trend of poor adherence to regulations has been developing. The report discussed audit findings where numerous deficiencies were noted and correction notices were given to manufacturers. Unfortunately, the USCG must count on self-policing by manufacturers as they can't inspect every production plant. Just because a production plant built it doesn't mean it passes USCG muster, and they have a problem with this. The CG was clear that finding violations on in-production hulls was all too common. They are working on cooperative outreach efforts to make manufacturers more aware of regulations and bring attention to compliance and correction of bad designs. Compliance comes ahead of "cool" in the priority scheme.

That same USCG concern has bubbled down to the individual owner level as well. To that end, the CG has issued the following safety alert:

USCG Safety Alert



tell ya what, you spend the 50.00 on the rule book and let me read it. https://abyc.site-ym.com/store/ViewProduct.aspx?id=1445145

any org. that would implement rules that a fed. agency enforces does not have a right to charge for said rules or the fed. agency has no right to enforce said rules due to the restrictive nature of obtaining said rules.


as for the dam lights, go out and look at your dam pole lights and post a picture of the certification label on them, not one you stuck there.

man, you guys just don't get it sometimes, if my bow led's exceed the requirement as set by the cg yet they don't like the fact that I do not have a stinkin rating label on them then let them ticket me and I will meet them in court with video/pnotos/the rules as written and beat them over the head with their own stupidity.


I have been on and owned boats for over 50 yrs. and have yet to see ANY agency (leo/gw/cg) look at a dam nav light on or off the water and I have been inspected many many times and asked to be quite a few.


use the lights you want to use and quit trying to tell everyone esle wth to do with their stuff. JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ


cheby/ford/dodge same chit.


Wow, do you read or just assume and post? ITS NOT THE BULBS IN QUESTION, ITS THE PLACEMENT OF THE BULBS!!


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Originally Posted By: Anchorman
I'm thinking Nate is probably right.
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646382 06/04/16 05:55 AM
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Guys, personally I think LED's mounted on the rub rails are a great idea. There are a lot of idiots on the water, I am all for anything that makes a boat stick out better at night. Honestly, I think agencies need to take another look at lighting when it comes to Inland waterways (small lakes). The question here is weather or not they are legal if mounted on your rub rails, and yes they can be if the proper angles exist. The thing is, if everyone in a bay area or ocean started tricking out there boats like we do on our local lakes, it would be very confusing to people who make a living on the ocean. I cant stress to you enough how much captains depend on lighting at night to know what another vessels intentions are.


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Originally Posted By: Anchorman
I'm thinking Nate is probably right.
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646383 06/04/16 05:56 AM
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nate king Offline OP
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Do the LED strips not hinder your vision at night a little while your running?


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Originally Posted By: Anchorman
I'm thinking Nate is probably right.
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: hopalong] #11646414 06/04/16 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted By: hopalong
now tell me how I am not safer with this lighting than 2 skinny poles with 1157 bulbs in them.


the anchor lights can be seen at least 5 miles on a clear night and over 1/2 mile in fog, we tried it out with other boats observing me.


The all-around light must be at least one meter above the red/green sidelights. Any white light placed in the rubrail does not meet this requirement.

The all-around light is just that - one that can be viewed in all 360 degrees from the boat. Lighting placed in the left and right rubrail only does not meet this particular requirement, and is therefore a second reason why your lighting is not legal.

No other lighting can interfere with the ability to observe required lighting, including the red/green sidelights. I can't be sure of color in your photos. If you have white lights near the bow, those (or others) may emit bright glare making it difficult for others to see the red/green lighting. This interference would also be a violation.

The red/green lights must be visible through a 225 degree arc centered on the bow. I do not know if the placement of your red/green lights accomplishes this, but it is unlikely. It would have to be achieved only by the angle of the spot on the rubrail where they are placed. It is unlikely that any light (not just LED) with no blinder will spontaneously limit itself to a particular viewing angle when inserted into a rubrail.

Last edited by Flippin-Out; 06/04/16 08:29 AM.
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646434 06/04/16 10:15 AM
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hopalong Offline
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Originally Posted By: nate king
Do the LED strips not hinder your vision at night a little while your running?



as I posted above, please pay attn.


Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king]
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my boat as it is, bow lights and I also have an led adjustable pole light for the stern, please don't try to tell me the bulb is illegal.


I do not have the rub rail lights on while running, strictly at anchor/trolling motor fishing.

Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646436 06/04/16 10:23 AM
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hopalong Offline
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Originally Posted By: nate king
Originally Posted By: hopalong
Originally Posted By: Flippin-Out
Originally Posted By: grout-scout
Has anybody seen the new Nav lights on the Nitros? I look at the boats when I go to Bass Pro and I cannot see how their lights meet the standards; but surely they do.


You may have missed the thread where I discussed a special report made by the USCG. Their limited ability to inspect and oversee compliance by boat manufacturers has resulted in the manufacturers losing focus on abiding by the rules. Market demand for a cool pimped-out look has driven them to forget about the rulebook in some areas. In recent years, an unhealthy trend of poor adherence to regulations has been developing. The report discussed audit findings where numerous deficiencies were noted and correction notices were given to manufacturers. Unfortunately, the USCG must count on self-policing by manufacturers as they can't inspect every production plant. Just because a production plant built it doesn't mean it passes USCG muster, and they have a problem with this. The CG was clear that finding violations on in-production hulls was all too common. They are working on cooperative outreach efforts to make manufacturers more aware of regulations and bring attention to compliance and correction of bad designs. Compliance comes ahead of "cool" in the priority scheme.

That same USCG concern has bubbled down to the individual owner level as well. To that end, the CG has issued the following safety alert:

USCG Safety Alert



tell ya what, you spend the 50.00 on the rule book and let me read it. https://abyc.site-ym.com/store/ViewProduct.aspx?id=1445145

any org. that would implement rules that a fed. agency enforces does not have a right to charge for said rules or the fed. agency has no right to enforce said rules due to the restrictive nature of obtaining said rules.


as for the dam lights, go out and look at your dam pole lights and post a picture of the certification label on them, not one you stuck there.

man, you guys just don't get it sometimes, if my bow led's exceed the requirement as set by the cg yet they don't like the fact that I do not have a stinkin rating label on them then let them ticket me and I will meet them in court with video/pnotos/the rules as written and beat them over the head with their own stupidity.


I have been on and owned boats for over 50 yrs. and have yet to see ANY agency (leo/gw/cg) look at a dam nav light on or off the water and I have been inspected many many times and asked to be quite a few.


use the lights you want to use and quit trying to tell everyone esle wth to do with their stuff. JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZ


cheby/ford/dodge same chit.


Wow, do you read or just assume and post? ITS NOT THE BULBS IN QUESTION, ITS THE PLACEMENT OF THE BULBS!!



please pay attn here, THE LIGHT HAS TO BE VISIBLE FOR 2 MILES AT THE STERN AND 1 MILE FOR THE BOW, yes it is the lights in question otherwise there would be no issue.

here ya go, tpwd requirements for lights. http://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/boat/safety/vessel_requirements/

Manually Driven Vessels when Paddled, Poled, Oared or Windblown

A sailing vessel of less than 20 meters (65.6 ft.), while underway shall exhibit sidelights and a sternlight which may be combined in one lantern carried at or near the top of the mast where it can best be seen.
A sailing vessel of less than 7 meters (23 ft.) shall, if practicable, exhibit the sidelights and a sternlight, or shall exhibit at least one bright light, lantern or flashlight from sunset to sunrise when not at dock.
All other manually driven vessels may exhibit sidelights and a sternlight, or shall exhibit at least one bright light, lantern, or flashlight from sunset to sunrise when not at dock. In vessels of less than 12 meters (39.4 feet), white lights shall be visible at a distance of at least two (2) miles. Colored lights shall be visible at a distance of at least one (1) mile. "Visible" when applied to lights, means visible on dark nights with clear atmosphere.

and as I stated above, I run an extended stern light that is well over 3' above my bow lights, all are led and all are visible for much more than the minimum requirement.


even on texoma the cg has never said a word to me about them, OKIE water patrol nor the Tx. water patrol, because they are above and beyond the minimum required.

Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: Flippin-Out] #11646437 06/04/16 10:27 AM
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hopalong Offline
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Originally Posted By: Flippin-Out
Originally Posted By: hopalong
now tell me how I am not safer with this lighting than 2 skinny poles with 1157 bulbs in them.


the anchor lights can be seen at least 5 miles on a clear night and over 1/2 mile in fog, we tried it out with other boats observing me.


The all-around light must be at least one meter above the red/green sidelights. Any white light placed in the rubrail does not meet this requirement.

The all-around light is just that - one that can be viewed in all 360 degrees from the boat. Lighting placed in the left and right rubrail only does not meet this particular requirement, and is therefore a second reason why your lighting is not legal.

No other lighting can interfere with the ability to observe required lighting, including the red/green sidelights. I can't be sure of color in your photos. If you have white lights near the bow, those (or others) may emit bright glare making it difficult for others to see the red/green lighting. This interference would also be a violation.

The red/green lights must be visible through a 225 degree arc centered on the bow. I do not know if the placement of your red/green lights accomplishes this, but it is unlikely. It would have to be achieved only by the angle of the spot on the rubrail where they are placed. It is unlikely that any light (not just LED) with no blinder will spontaneously limit itself to a particular viewing angle when inserted into a rubrail.



doooood, you need help. now go read above about my extended pole and try to figure that out, hint, it is only used when running with the bow lights. key word being ANCHOR LIGHTS, get it, ANCHOR or in place/on trolling motor NOT RUNNING.

I will bet good money I run a more legal and safer boat that half of ya, want to get into the nit picky krap then lets go.

Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646438 06/04/16 10:28 AM
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I was going by your photos showing your lights. You did not have any all-around light activated in those. I was reading the past with photos, and it did not have a description about the all-around pole light that I recall.

No light may interfere with a legally required light. If that was a white light up by the bow (near the red/green that may not have been on) it would be a violation. It would be so bright and close to the red/green to make them harder to see.

The all-around light is NEVER called an "anchor light" by the regulations. It must be on at all times, whether running or anchored. Go read the regs. I don't need help, you do.

Last edited by Flippin-Out; 06/04/16 10:31 AM.
Re: Coast Guard's take on lighting [Re: nate king] #11646439 06/04/16 10:29 AM
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hopalong Offline
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see y'all next yr. when I need another laugh, and y'all think we in the OT are weird?

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