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Re: Grinnel and a $7 spinnerbait [Re: gregorkhan] #1156821 02/14/07 12:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,071
Bass Border Offline
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Posts: 5,071
Originally Posted By: gregorkhan
Originally Posted By: Bass Border


As for Grinnel, Jack's (chain pickrel), Gar and such, I kill on site because they deplete the young Bass population and not for any other reason. A gar for example must eat it's own weight everyday to survive. That also includes baitfish etc.

Just my .02


I am going to have to call you on either ignorance, BS, or both regarding your posts on this subject--probably both.

Your statement regarding the eating habits of gar seems to be ignorance or BS. I truly doubt that a 40 pound gar eats that much fish in a day. If it does, it must be jet powered from all of the excrement it releases.



Whoa there gregorkhan, that's a low blow. smirk A Texas Game Warden told my about the alligator gar many years ago.

I'm not going to get into a pi$$ing contest with you but personal attacks are not the way to go. cheers




Bass Border
www.whyquit.com




Re: Grinnel and a $7 spinnerbait [Re: Bass Border] #1157494 02/14/07 04:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 242
G
gregorkhan Offline
Outdoorsman
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G
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 242
It wasn't a personal attack. If you were BSing, then you are guilty only of exaggerating what a fish eats. And ignorance is easily cured by a little reading (whereas stupid is permanent).

Based on a study I found, I would guess that gar selectively eat drum and other gar rather than LMB.

I did a little after reading your post and found this which was published by the Lower Mississppi River Conservation Committee (http://www.lmrcc.org/Library/498gar.html):

"Alligator gar are large (sometimes well over 200 pounds), fish-eating predators found throughout Louisiana's freshwater habitats and even the state's brackish marshes. One look at the gar's mouthful of needle-sharp teeth is often enough to convince fishermen that they are fish-eating machines that can damage sport fish populations.

Texas biologists did a food habits study on this fish in Sam Rayburn Reservoir to see just what they do eat. During a two month period in September and October they caught 209 alligator gar with gill nets and jug lines. The gar ranged in weight from 18 pounds to 156 pounds.

While most of their stomachs (126) were empty, enough had food in them to get a picture of their diet. The proportion of food items by species is listed below:


SPECIES
% OF TOTAL FOOD ITEMS
Gizzard shad 26.4%
Channel catfish 14.9%
Freshwater drum (gaspergou) 12.6%
Bluegill, redear, and goggleye sunfish 7.9%
Spotted sucker 6.8%
White bass (barfish) 4.5%
Largemouth bass 3.4%
Spotted gar 3.4%
Crappie (sac-au-lait) 2.2%
Lake chubsucker 2.2%
Carp 1.1%

The study also showed that gar can be scavengers, as the carcasses of 7 crappie discarded by fishermen after cleaning were found in their stomachs. Other items found included 2 coots, 11 fish hooks, 1 artificial lure and 1 plastic bag."

Of the above species, I would classify the following to be large fish predators:
Channel catfish 14.9%
Freshwater drum (gaspergou) 12.6%
White bass (barfish) 4.5%
Largemouth bass 3.4%
Spotted gar 3.4%

I don't have data on what the population of these predators is in Sam Rayburn, but I would expect it to be something like:
Channel catfish 20%
Freshwater drum (gaspergou) 10%
White bass (barfish) 30%
Largemouth bass 20%
Spotted gar 8%
Hybrid striped bass 10%
Alligator gar 2%
Note that I added in hybrids based on the fact that TPWD says there is good fishing at SR and I added gator gar based on the fact that they must be there if the study was done on them.

Since there are more LMB in the lake than drum and gar, then the big gar must be selectively eating the drum and gar as the stomach studies indicate 5 times the amount of LMB in the stomachs. Note that the gar are not eating a lot of carp, but do eat lots of suckers and in fact eat 3 times as much carp and sucker as LMB.

This diet should help to create a fishery with large predators at the expense of small predators, suckers, small gar, and drum.

It would be great if someone could populate the fish populations with real numbers rather than my estimates.

I hope that TPWD does some real analyses when coming up with its regulations rather than going with second hand anecdotal evidence from my brother-in-law's great uncle's sister from Nebraska.




G Hupf
McKinney, TX
Re: Grinnel and a $7 spinnerbait [Re: bassmaster] #1157749 02/14/07 12:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,940
J
Jigfish Offline
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J
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,940
I was fishing a T on Fork and my bud was fishing one of my zara spooks. Fish hit the spook and man we lit up. Got the fish to the boat and dang it if it wasn't a 10lb Grinnel. HE was thinking about cutting the line. I wanted my spook back and I laughed while the fun began. He got it out and I got my spook back.


Thanks,

The weak call it obsession, the strong call it dedication!
Jigfish

Re: Grinnel and a $7 spinnerbait [Re: gregorkhan] #1159169 02/14/07 11:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5,071
Bass Border Offline
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Posts: 5,071
Originally Posted By: gregorkhan
It wasn't a personal attack. If you were BSing, then you are guilty only of exaggerating what a fish eats. And ignorance is easily cured by a little reading (whereas stupid is permanent).

Based on a study I found, I would guess that gar selectively eat drum and other gar rather than LMB.

I did a little after reading your post and found this which was published by the Lower Mississppi River Conservation Committee (http://www.lmrcc.org/Library/498gar.html):

"Alligator gar are large (sometimes well over 200 pounds), fish-eating predators found throughout Louisiana's freshwater habitats and even the state's brackish marshes. One look at the gar's mouthful of needle-sharp teeth is often enough to convince fishermen that they are fish-eating machines that can damage sport fish populations.

Texas biologists did a food habits study on this fish in Sam Rayburn Reservoir to see just what they do eat. During a two month period in September and October they caught 209 alligator gar with gill nets and jug lines. The gar ranged in weight from 18 pounds to 156 pounds.

While most of their stomachs (126) were empty, enough had food in them to get a picture of their diet. The proportion of food items by species is listed below:


SPECIES
% OF TOTAL FOOD ITEMS
Gizzard shad 26.4%
Channel catfish 14.9%
Freshwater drum (gaspergou) 12.6%
Bluegill, redear, and goggleye sunfish 7.9%
Spotted sucker 6.8%
White bass (barfish) 4.5%
Largemouth bass 3.4%
Spotted gar 3.4%
Crappie (sac-au-lait) 2.2%
Lake chubsucker 2.2%
Carp 1.1%

The study also showed that gar can be scavengers, as the carcasses of 7 crappie discarded by fishermen after cleaning were found in their stomachs. Other items found included 2 coots, 11 fish hooks, 1 artificial lure and 1 plastic bag."

Of the above species, I would classify the following to be large fish predators:
Channel catfish 14.9%
Freshwater drum (gaspergou) 12.6%
White bass (barfish) 4.5%
Largemouth bass 3.4%
Spotted gar 3.4%

I don't have data on what the population of these predators is in Sam Rayburn, but I would expect it to be something like:
Channel catfish 20%
Freshwater drum (gaspergou) 10%
White bass (barfish) 30%
Largemouth bass 20%
Spotted gar 8%
Hybrid striped bass 10%
Alligator gar 2%
Note that I added in hybrids based on the fact that TPWD says there is good fishing at SR and I added gator gar based on the fact that they must be there if the study was done on them.

Since there are more LMB in the lake than drum and gar, then the big gar must be selectively eating the drum and gar as the stomach studies indicate 5 times the amount of LMB in the stomachs. Note that the gar are not eating a lot of carp, but do eat lots of suckers and in fact eat 3 times as much carp and sucker as LMB.

This diet should help to create a fishery with large predators at the expense of small predators, suckers, small gar, and drum.

It would be great if someone could populate the fish populations with real numbers rather than my estimates.

I hope that TPWD does some real analyses when coming up with its regulations rather than going with second hand anecdotal evidence from my brother-in-law's great uncle's sister from Nebraska.



Turtles have to eat too.


Bass Border
www.whyquit.com




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