water up over the three year lack of water "grass line" - watching carp eat it like cattle. not a biologist but pretty clear to me that there are more carp than bass. not sure what the landowner argument was, but i am watching carp destroy what i have been waiting for three years to try to get back.

i agree with you except that not all land owners are supporting carp AT ALL - i live by the TPW freshwater fishery at athens location (i am on cedar creek and have trained my dog to chase carp) and complain to them every time i visit about the carp - of course never get an answer - have not read the rest of this post but your initial analysis in terms of carp mistakes is accurate. I am sure there will be different opinions.

Indeed, carp are magnificent creatures, far more adaptable than any bass, and the common carp is both the most highly evolved and widely distributed freshwater fish on planet Earth. The Cyprinid family, which includes both carp and (true)minnows, is among the most diverse and useful to humanity of all the fish' families. Even the ubiquitous tilapia has not overtaken the carp in popularity as a high quality protein source for people.

A largemouth bass is an inherently unmanageable animal, is extremely dependent upon specific environmental conditions, and contributes almost zero to the world food supply. They are only valuable to wealthy sport fishermen who have the time and resources to spend "playing" at fishing (as opposed to fishing for subsistence).

I love both bass and carp, but I also assure you the two ARE NOT mutually exclusive in the environment. There are plenty of good bass fiehries that have carp in them.

Of course, wealthy lake lot owners often have pristine green lawns and that means fertilizer. Phosphorus is one of the naturally least abundant elements in lake waters so fertilizers leaching out of the soils and into the lakes contribute to algae blooms and most lake grasses and weeds.

Score one for lakeside homeowners . . . if you want vegetation.

Squaw Creek fishes well, has almost no homeowners around its perimeter, has literally thousands of blue tilapia originally stocked because they are omnivorous. They operate a heavy tournament schedule there and the winning bags are almost always in the 25/30 lbs. range. So, at least as regards a non-indigenous species, tilapia fry likely provide a food source for bass and don't seem to be limiting bass populations, size and health.

If you want to get rid of tilapia, turn off the power plant over the winter (homeowners might yelp a bit!) for repairs or something; if the water dips below 45 degrees, we'd see a giant fish kill. I suppose that is why they were selected to control vegetation over carp since it is a power plant lake and they can use this species because the water is warm over the winter months.

Is there any evidence that lakes with heavy residential development around their perimeters have less grass and less bass? Athens has lots of fish and lots of homeowners; Benbrook has few homes around it. Not sure about which lakes have carp and which ones don't.

It would seem to me that the answer might be to introduce triploid carp.

Is this being done? Is it feasible on a large scale? I don't know.

But, they could use carp or another species to "mow the lawn" on occasion to keep lakes from becoming over-vegetated.

I am not totally sold on the idea that we have a catastrophe, at all, but an interesting discussion for sure.

Brad

Brad I think you're missing the point tpw doesn't control grass it eradicates it. I don't think anyone would complain if they stocked just enough to control it but they just go nuclear everytime.

If a little is good...a whole lot is better. That seems to be the mindset. They will tell you they learned from Conroe while at the same time engaging in a "control" program that does exactly the same thing they did to Conroe. That is...total eradication.

Cypress used to take 27-30 pound sacks to win. Now it's 14-23. And they come from man made brush piles. The hydrilla eradication decimated a huge piece of that 4-6 pound fish range. I catch a few 4 pounders, otherwise it's 6.75-7 pound fish . And that's rare and off the same brushpiles. Docks spit out 1-3 pounders. 5-7 pound fish used to be a common daily occurrence when the hydrilla was abundant.

No doubt the absence of hydrilla has greatly diminished the quality of bass on Cypress. Back in the late 90's it had the cleanest water in the state of texas. Hydrilla was abundant and the lake was healthy. It was also one of the very best bass fisheries anywhere. While I feel the OP is exaggerating a little there is merit to his frustrations. The rich homeowners had everything to do with the eradication of hydrilla and the diminished quality of bass fishing on Cypress. 15 years later it is nothing what it used to be.

Hydrilla is still considered an invasive non native plant in the state of Texas. Instead of continuing to rant about the homeowners around the lakes perhaps one should focus that energy on trying to get Hydrilla reclassified with TPWD. Bottom line is as long as its listed as an invasive plant the homeowners will ALWAYS win the battle. Other states do a great job of managing the grass, I dont see why Texas couldnt figure it out as well. The bass are still there when the grass is gone, fishing just isnt as easy for those that dont savy deep structure fishing and electronics.

No, I get the point. And, I wasn't intending to take sides, since I don't have one, not a very well developed one anyway.

I was just commenting and thinking out loud on the general things that influence grass growth, like fertilizer run-off (+); and, things that diminish it, like tilapia (-) and carp (-).

To that, I was simply searching for sort of a cause and effect: looking at lakes with no homeowners versus those with lots of perimeter homes . . . if the issue is homeowner influence.

I'm not sure there are many cases where "central planning" hasn't created unintended consequences. Kudzu comes to mind.

One has to be super careful tinkering with nature.

Brad

You ever caught a carp?

Pull like a train.

We'll just switch to carp fishing tournaments.

I actually agree with you.

FMJ nailed it. Not only do they chemically eradicate it, they stock grass carp after to make sure nothing grows back, even native vegetation.

Well if there was ever a doubt about how killing the grass off affects bass and there growth and populations look at lake livingston. Most of the year 12-15# will win. And the lack of grass is why the fish all stay in very shallow water year around usually 4' or less.

what out for the zombies maaaaaaaaaaan - its bad out there.