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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: lare2]
#10776725
04/18/15 04:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 555
Fritz423
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 555 |
I personally think that catch and release has led to a depletion of forage by smaller bass. We'd have been better off supporting meat bass fishing. The true lunkers would have more to eat.
Wishin' I was fishin', and dreaming of beer
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: 2014NITROZ-7]
#10776846
04/18/15 11:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 30,321
RedRanger
burro desagradable
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burro desagradable
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 30,321 |
One thing no one takes into consideration is the amount of fishermen now compared to when the program started.Simple math more fishermen less fish.This is just my opinion. Probably due to population growth in Texas Look at how over the years the number of SAL have declined from when SAL started, This just proves SAL does not work....
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: lare2]
#10777208
04/18/15 03:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806
JimmyP
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806 |
If you want to grow larger bass where do you go to get the genetics? We all should be able to agree that the Florida strain black bass raised the bar on size of Texas fish. So if you want to go the next step what direction do you head? Do you just let nature take it's course or do you try to selectively breed a new and bigger strain? TPWD is trying to achieve that with the SAL program. They take eggs from an above average size female and fertilize them with a given male that they have the genetic markers from and see what the results are. Will they ever get to their intended goal? Only time will tell or they will quit trying. Is it possible? I really don't know but as long as it uses private funding who can complain? Look at how far the deer breeders have gone with horn size but the caveat there is the deer aren't that much larger in body size. I do know one thing, and that is if nobody tries to grow bigger fish then it sure as the world won't happen. And ask yourself this, If TPWD hadn't tried to get bigger fish for Texans would we have the size fish we have today? With the population boom, more and more pressure on our lakes, more water demand, drought, etc... I am sure glad we have a proactive TPWD trying to keep the sport I love going strong for the generations to come.
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: JimmyP]
#10777339
04/18/15 05:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,225
Jimbo
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,225 |
If you want to grow larger bass where do you go to get the genetics? We all should be able to agree that the Florida strain black bass raised the bar on size of Texas fish. So if you want to go the next step what direction do you head? Do you just let nature take it's course or do you try to selectively breed a new and bigger strain? TPWD is trying to achieve that with the SAL program. They take eggs from an above average size female and fertilize them with a given male that they have the genetic markers from and see what the results are. Will they ever get to their intended goal? Only time will tell or they will quit trying. Is it possible? I really don't know but as long as it uses private funding who can complain? Look at how far the deer breeders have gone with horn size but the caveat there is the deer aren't that much larger in body size. I do know one thing, and that is if nobody tries to grow bigger fish then it sure as the world won't happen. And ask yourself this, If TPWD hadn't tried to get bigger fish for Texans would we have the size fish we have today? With the population boom, more and more pressure on our lakes, more water demand, drought, etc... I am sure glad we have a proactive TPWD trying to keep the sport I love going strong for the generations to come. Others on this thread have brought up the same argument, but it rings hollow unfortunately, and also trying to compare it to deer breeders doesn't make sense either. Here is why! A deer breeder would have given up a long time ago if his efforts didn't pan out after 29 years. The same with trying to get nature to create a new strain which has been given the same amount of time. There is no proof that after 29 years any of the sort is even coming close to happening. The Share a Lunker program started in 1986 so you do the math. Blaming it on fishing pressure is also not going to work as catch and release has been implanted in the younger generations now and if you need proof, the next time you catch a nice string of bass just take them up to the cleaning station at any lake on a weekend and observe the looks and comments you will receive but you'd better be able to handle yourself in a fight. Don't worry the SL program is safe because it's doing what it's meant to do and that is generate money for all involved. Take away the program and continue the stockings of Florida strain bass and you won't notice any difference at all.
Just one more cast!
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: lare2]
#10777466
04/18/15 06:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806
JimmyP
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806 |
Jimbo, The point I was trying to make with the deer breeding is that they have made huge increases with the horn size but the body weight has pretty much stayed about the same. All this done while selectively breeding and controlled environment in regards to diet, and hunting pressure and medical care. They see their results in a short 2 to 3 year span and can watch them daily. Whereas the SAL program cannot control the conditions of their test sample and they have to wait 10 or more years(if they see them at all) to see if the fish they bred are significantly bigger or not. In the 29 years that it has been going on its possible that they have made a difference and it's just so hard to quantify because the study is in no way easy to control. As far as pressure is concerned, why is it that "Ethyl" lived to be approximately 19 years old in a controlled enviornment? And weighed about 21 pounds. When the average lake bass has a lifespan of 10 to 13 years. Natural predation and fishing pressure has to take its toll. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blinded to the money issue, or the catch and release initiative. This has been a great debate so far and I do appreciate you keeping it civil. I know I'm not always right but I do think about things that interest me and enjoy getting others views so as to see things from a different prospective.
Last edited by JimmyP; 04/18/15 07:09 PM. Reason: spelling
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: lare2]
#10777865
04/18/15 11:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,195
grout-scout
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 16,195 |
Breeders get big deer by stuffing them full of proteins, apparently California understands that, maybe some day TPWD will too.
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: grout-scout]
#10778749
04/19/15 01:02 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 30,321
RedRanger
burro desagradable
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burro desagradable
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 30,321 |
Breeders get big deer by stuffing them full of proteins, apparently California understands that, maybe some day TPWD will too. I agree, I have argued that point for years Texas doesn't even have a bass in the top 25 caught, I think California has about 21 on the list....
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: lare2]
#10786631
04/22/15 01:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,141
hook-line&sinker
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,141 |
The Top 25 Largemouth Bass of All Time
RANK WEIGHT ANGLER WATER LOCATION DATE 1a 22.3106 Kurita, Manabu Biwa, Lake Japan 2-Jul-2009 1b 22.2500 Perry, George W. Montgomery Lake Georgia 2-Jun-1932 3 22.0100 Crupi, Robert J. Castaic, Lake California 12-Mar-1991 4 21.7500 Arujo, Michael Castaic, Lake California 5-Mar-1991 5 21.6875 Dickerson, Jed Dixon, Lake California 31-May-2003 6 21.2000 Easley, Raymond D. Casitas, Lake California 4-Mar-1980 7 21.0100 Crupi, Robert J. Castaic, Lake California 9-Mar-1990 8 20.9375 Zimmerlee, Dave Miramar, Lake California 23-Jun-1973 9 20.8600 Torres, Leo Castaic, Lake California 4-Feb-1990 10 20.7500 Long, Mike Dixon, Lake California 27-Apr-2001 11 20.2500 Dupras, Gene Hodges, Lake California 30-May-1985 12 20.1250 Friebel, Fritz Big Fish Lake Florida 19-May-1923 13 19.7000 Coniglio, George Mission Viejo, Lake California 21-Mar-2006 14 19.5000 Balloid, Mark Castaic, Lake California 28-May-1990 14 19.5000 Crabtree, Randy Casitas, Lake California 9-Apr-2002 14 19.5000 Gunsauls, Keith Miramar, Lake California 29-Feb-1988 17 19.4375 Weakley, Mac Dixon, Lake California 20-May-2003 18 19.2500 Brant, Chris Miramar, Lake California 22-Mar-1998 19 19.1875 Beasley, Steve Wohlford, Lake California 3-Feb-1986 19 19.1875 Hanline, Arden Charles Morena, Lake California 17-Feb-1987 21 19.1500 Shimada, Kazuya Ikehara, Lake Japan 22-Apr-2003 22 19.0625 DeFresco, Sandra W. Miramar, Lake California 14-Mar-1988 23 19.0400 Kadota, Dan T. Castaic, Lake California 8-Jan-1989 24 19.0313 Kerns, Larry Success, Lake California 27-Jan-2001 25 19.0000 Witt, Riley Tarpon, Lake Florida 26-Jun-1961
>)));> Wishin' I was Fishin' <;(((<
“Personnel is the most vital and important aspect of any industry. If you’re just going to grind them up, it’s not going to end well for anybody.” SCOTT REINARDY
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Re: Sad News for another SL
[Re: lare2]
#10786675
04/22/15 01:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,141
hook-line&sinker
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,141 |
I suspect the issues we might have with the SAL program and the production of 13+ pound bass is more controlled by the environment than any other aspect of growing bigger bass. First and foremost it takes a long living fish to reach record size in any conditions but the fact we see double digit largemouth bass in Texas is directly related to the Florida strain genetics.
>)));> Wishin' I was Fishin' <;(((<
“Personnel is the most vital and important aspect of any industry. If you’re just going to grind them up, it’s not going to end well for anybody.” SCOTT REINARDY
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