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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10730879
03/29/15 03:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 524
mad_catter1990
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 524 |
Funny, all this talk of what makes a blue catfish lake thrive and i have yet to hear anybody say anything about genetics...in my opinion, genetics is one of the biggest factors that affect the growth rate of blue catfish and all fish for that matter. Just my 2 sense... Would you like to explain what genetic strain or strains that you are looking for? Are they different than the general genetic of those of general blue catfish population? The genetic argument is essentially the same argument as the big spawners argument. The root of this argument is from the extrapolation of pairing two big and tall man and woman together their offspring will be big and tall, it's kind common sense isn't it? So you need to save those big spawners to preserve the superior genes, etc, etc. So goes the logic. Well then, may I ask how many eggs did an 80lb female blue catfish lay last year? And the year before that,... and how many of her offspring from 5 years ago are now also laying more eggs this year? Lake Lewisville blue catfish record of 63 lb caught back in 2000 must have laid millions of eggs before she was taken out of the water. So we know the "gene" is there, but 15 years later, the 2000 lake record still stands. Does genetic explain anything in LL ??? I don't think so. Just because a l fish grows to be a big fish doesn't mean it has good genes..you can take 2 fish of the same size and have like a 10 year difference or more between those 2 fish and obviously the younger fish has the better genes being that it grew to that size much quicker than the other one...and to be honest I do not know how many eggs a 80# blue laid last year nor does it matter because it varies between fish. Age effects the amount of eggs a blue lays, not it's size...the older a catfish gets, the less eggs it produces directly affecting how efficiently it spawns...I never said preserve the genes by throwing the big spawners back because a giant catfish at the upper end of its lifespan may actually not even spawn efficiently enough to produce healthy enough eggs that aurvive and the number of eggs produced will be a smaller amount than another fish of the same size but younger age.. but just like I said at the beginning of this post...a big fish doesn't necessarily mean it has good genes...it's growth rate and it's overall size at a certain age as a combination is what reflects good genes or bad genes..the 63# lake record blue caught on lake Lewisville may well have been at the upper end of its lifespan or it could've been in the middle..we will never know...
PB flathead- 72# PB Blue cat- 56# PB Channel- 22#
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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10731171
03/29/15 01:15 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 524
mad_catter1990
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 524 |
And i must ask..what's with the argumentative attitude? Is that the only purpose of this thread? Cuz you have been argumentative with almost everyone that's posted in it...what's the point?
PB flathead- 72# PB Blue cat- 56# PB Channel- 22#
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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10731220
03/29/15 01:58 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,923
BrianTx01
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,923 |
There is an upper end to the slot, so if you want to eat a 50" fish from Lewisville you can.
Fighting Texas Aggie Class of 2001 Proud UNT Alumni
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10731335
03/29/15 03:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702
BankAngler50
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702 |
Mad_Carter, below is the purpose of this thread. This can't really be compares to most Texas lakes, as blue catfish were already present in some lakes when they were created by damming rivers, as we're flathead catfish. Lake lewisville hasn't ever even stocked blue catfish in it, and there are tons of fish in it.
They are considered invasive up north because by definition, they were aliens introduced to the ecosystem, compared to the naturally occurring catfish in southern US waters Weather blue catfish are native to Texas or not is beside the point . There are a lot of misinformation going around nowadays, be it online or on guides boats to a point of outright hostility towards other fishermen who harvest fish larger than 10 lbs. The purpose this thread is to inject facts and scientific studies into the mix to separate facts from fictions. I've included several paragraphs of excerpts that contains general information on blue catfish that are helpful in providing better understanding why high harvest of blue catfish in tawakoni contribute to fast growing of blue cats and the abundant population of large fish in that lake. On the other hand, without high harvest of large and small fish, blue catfish will certainly reach the 75% of all biomass in tawakoni you will have what biologists call inter_specific competition for food amongst different species which will eventually lead to intra - specific competition within same species of blue catfish... a recipe for very slow growth rates. Below article by Kim Graham research article published in 1999 American Fisheries SYMPOSIUM. Excerpts will further explain... Blue catfish in the Rio Grande River, Texas, grew at a faster rate than fish in the 3-year-old Amistad Reservoir, Texas (Henderson 1972), however, fish from different sites within the reservoir grew at different rates. Jenkins (1956) attributed decreasing growth rates of blue catfish through 9 years in Lake Texoma, Oklahoma, to inter-specific competition that oc- curred as the fish community reached carrying capacity. Intra-specific competition caused slow growth of blue catfish in Kentucky Lake, Kentucky (Conder and Hoffarth 1965), whereas growth im- pairment of blue catfish in Kentucky Lake were believed to be caused by both intra- and inter-spe- cific competition (Freeze 1977). The fastest growth rates for Kentucky Lake blue catfish are believed to be in areas where intra-specific com- petition was reduced by high harvest (Hale 1987).
Last edited by Bankfisher50; 03/29/15 03:20 PM.
Why do I go fishing? To catch a box of fish and/or some quality time under the sun. Thank Heaven I never fail fishing in Texas, catching box fish or plenty of sunburn.
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: mad_catter1990]
#10731566
03/29/15 05:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702
BankAngler50
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702 |
Funny, all this talk of what makes a blue catfish lake thrive and i have yet to hear anybody say anything about genetics...in my opinion, genetics is one of the biggest factors that affect the growth rate of blue catfish and all fish for that matter. Just my 2 sense... Would you like to explain what genetic strain or strains that you are looking for? Are they different than the general genetic of those of general blue catfish population? The genetic argument is essentially the same argument as the big spawners argument. The root of this argument is from the extrapolation of pairing two big and tall man and woman together their offspring will be big and tall, it's kind common sense isn't it? So you need to save those big spawners to preserve the superior genes, etc, etc. So goes the logic. Well then, may I ask how many eggs did an 80lb female blue catfish lay last year? And the year before that,... and how many of her offspring from 5 years ago are now also laying more eggs this year? Lake Lewisville blue catfish record of 63 lb caught back in 2000 must have laid millions of eggs before she was taken out of the water. So we know the "gene" is there, but 15 years later, the 2000 lake record still stands. Does genetic explain anything in LL ??? I don't think so. Just because a l fish grows to be a big fish doesn't mean it has good genes..you can take 2 fish of the same size and have like a 10 year difference or more between those 2 fish and obviously the younger fish has the better genes being that it grew to that size much quicker than the other one...and to be honest I do not know how many eggs a 80# blue laid last year nor does it matter because it varies between fish. Age effects the amount of eggs a blue lays, not it's size...the older a catfish gets, the less eggs it produces directly affecting how efficiently it spawns...I never said preserve the genes by throwing the big spawners back because a giant catfish at the upper end of its lifespan may actually not even spawn efficiently enough to produce healthy enough eggs that aurvive and the number of eggs produced will be a smaller amount than another fish of the same size but younger age.. but just like I said at the beginning of this post...a big fish doesn't necessarily mean it has good genes...it's growth rate and it's overall size at a certain age as a combination is what reflects good genes or bad genes..the 63# lake record blue caught on lake Lewisville may well have been at the upper end of its lifespan or it could've been in the middle..we will never know... I'm going to be brief here. For a standing lake record, size and weight matter more than age, that why it's lake record, it grew to that size where few or none of other fish have, regardless of age. Blue catfish as a species, continue to grow throughout their life, it's a general consent that blue catfish can grow to more than 100 lb as long as there are food for them to eat. So a 60 lber isn't at the upper end of its life. The gene pool of blue catfish are remarkably similar everywhere, Texas record is 120 lb out of Texoma, Missouri is 130lbs out of Missouri River, Virginia is 143 lb out of Buggs Island Lake. All blue catfish hatched with a school of thousands, that for all practical purposes, the gene pool is the same within a geographic region, that's why no researchers attributed growth rates of blue catfish to genetic factor of the fish.
Why do I go fishing? To catch a box of fish and/or some quality time under the sun. Thank Heaven I never fail fishing in Texas, catching box fish or plenty of sunburn.
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10731581
03/29/15 05:41 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 153
central texas
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 153 |
So I have seen every conservation info thread get ruined by one to two individuals,if you stated your opinion bank fisher 50 now let others add their 2 cents without you adding anymore. You joined joined 3-5-15 and you have 48 post and its 100 percent anti conservation. I know I'm on a fishing forum but it looks awfully fishy!
Guns 2 worst enemies rust & politicians !
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10731582
03/29/15 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 153
central texas
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 153 |
So I have seen every conservation info thread get ruined by one to two individuals,if you stated your opinion bank fisher 50 now let others add their 2 cents without you adding anymore. You joined joined 3-5-15 and you have 48 post and its 100 percent anti conservation. I know I'm on a fishing forum but it looks awfully fishy!
Guns 2 worst enemies rust & politicians !
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10731583
03/29/15 05:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 153
central texas
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 153 |
So I have seen every conservation info thread get ruined by one to two individuals,if you stated your opinion bank fisher 50 now let others add their 2 cents without you adding anymore. You joined joined 3-5-15 and you have 48 post and its 100 percent anti conservation. I know I'm on a fishing forum but it looks awfully fishy!
Guns 2 worst enemies rust & politicians !
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: central texas]
#10732208
03/30/15 12:34 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702
BankAngler50
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702 |
So I have seen every conservation info thread get ruined by one to two individuals,if you stated your opinion bank fisher 50 now let others add their 2 cents without you adding anymore. You joined joined 3-5-15 and you have 48 post and its 100 percent anti conservation. I know I'm on a fishing forum but it looks awfully fishy!
Correction, I'm for scientific based conservation, and at the moment 100% against new regulations on Lake Tawakoni. From where I stand your pushing for new regulations sounds more like YOUR FISH AND YOUR WAY, doesn't look like any "conservation" to me at all. I registered to speak against new regulations on Tawakoni, the lake that my family have enjoyed for more than 10 years. I created one thread to speak out against what I considered none factual misinformation and hostility from those of you who want to use politics to force your cpr religion on the those of us who don't share your religion.
Why do I go fishing? To catch a box of fish and/or some quality time under the sun. Thank Heaven I never fail fishing in Texas, catching box fish or plenty of sunburn.
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10732214
03/30/15 12:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702
BankAngler50
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702 |
Mad_Carter, below is the purpose of this thread. This can't really be compares to most Texas lakes, as blue catfish were already present in some lakes when they were created by damming rivers, as we're flathead catfish. Lake lewisville hasn't ever even stocked blue catfish in it, and there are tons of fish in it.
They are considered invasive up north because by definition, they were aliens introduced to the ecosystem, compared to the naturally occurring catfish in southern US waters Weather blue catfish are native to Texas or not is beside the point . There are a lot of misinformation going around nowadays, be it online or on guides boats to a point of outright hostility towards other fishermen who harvest fish larger than 10 lbs. The purpose this thread is to inject facts and scientific studies into the mix to separate facts from fictions. I've included several paragraphs of excerpts that contains general information on blue catfish that are helpful in providing better understanding why high harvest of blue catfish in tawakoni contribute to fast growing of blue cats and the abundant population of large fish in that lake. On the other hand, without high harvest of large and small fish, blue catfish will certainly reach the 75% of all biomass in tawakoni you will have what biologists call inter_specific competition for food amongst different species which will eventually lead to intra - specific competition within same species of blue catfish... a recipe for very slow growth rates. Below article by Kim Graham research article published in 1999 American Fisheries SYMPOSIUM. Excerpts will further explain... Blue catfish in the Rio Grande River, Texas, grew at a faster rate than fish in the 3-year-old Amistad Reservoir, Texas (Henderson 1972), however, fish from different sites within the reservoir grew at different rates. Jenkins (1956) attributed decreasing growth rates of blue catfish through 9 years in Lake Texoma, Oklahoma, to inter-specific competition that oc- curred as the fish community reached carrying capacity. Intra-specific competition caused slow growth of blue catfish in Kentucky Lake, Kentucky (Conder and Hoffarth 1965), whereas growth im- pairment of blue catfish in Kentucky Lake were believed to be caused by both intra- and inter-spe- cific competition (Freeze 1977). The fastest growth rates for Kentucky Lake blue catfish are believed to be in areas where intra-specific com- petition was reduced by high harvest (Hale 1987). THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF MY THREAD.
Why do I go fishing? To catch a box of fish and/or some quality time under the sun. Thank Heaven I never fail fishing in Texas, catching box fish or plenty of sunburn.
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Re: NOAA Funded Research Studies on INVASIVE CATFISH
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10732492
03/30/15 02:21 AM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 67
flat1
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 67 |
Some people just like to hear themselves talk.
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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: tgravley aka lewisvillecatfish]
#10734672
03/31/15 12:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702
BankAngler50
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702 |
You can't tell a whole lot from the lake records. I have personally seen two fish out of Lewisville recently that would have broke the record if the people would have chose to turn it in. I'm sure if and when you catch one, you will turn it in for the record. Catfish, Blue 63.12 48.25 Jan 22, 2000 Shannon Maynes
Why do I go fishing? To catch a box of fish and/or some quality time under the sun. Thank Heaven I never fail fishing in Texas, catching box fish or plenty of sunburn.
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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10735157
03/31/15 02:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,712
Txmedic033
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 4,712 |
I have caught about 20-30 catfish in the last 4 months that would have surpassed a current lake record. Not everyone that catches a record, gets it certified. I also have certified scales in my boat at all times.
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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: Txmedic033]
#10735433
03/31/15 10:39 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702
BankAngler50
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 702 |
I have caught about 20-30 catfish in the last 4 months that would have surpassed a current lake record. Not everyone that catches a record, gets it certified. I also have certified scales in my boat at all times. Worst fishing story ever told and it's a record in my book yet to date. No certification is needed for fictions.
Why do I go fishing? To catch a box of fish and/or some quality time under the sun. Thank Heaven I never fail fishing in Texas, catching box fish or plenty of sunburn.
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Re: Reproduction of Blue Catfish Vs Large Mouth Bass
[Re: BankAngler50]
#10735453
03/31/15 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,157
Blues
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,157 |
I've broke 4 lake records, shattered one by over 20lbs, and didn't turn any of them in. I don't want people knowing what lakes are pumping out big fish for me. I agree with Tom very very little can be taken away from just looking at posted lake records. Tpwd surveys on one of these lakes is way off as well.
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