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fish management #9912941 04/16/14 06:30 PM
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txhunt&fish10 Offline OP
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We have a 7 acre pond that dried up nearly completely during the drought a few years ago. The pond filled all the way back up the following year, and we restocked with fathead minnows, a few hundred bluegill, and a 100 florida strain largemouths (fingerlings) from some seriously great genetics. I realize that's not enough fish per acre, but we cannot afford the right amount. We have not seen any sign of fish in the 2 years since then. I did some research and found that the survival rate for a pond that size is around 50% during the first year. I am trying to decide if it would be best to do another round of largemouth fingerlings and bluegill, and if there would be any benefit. Anybody have any ideas? Finances will only allow us to purchase a small number of fish. We also have the option of catching fish from nearby lakes and reservoirs and transporting them back with the help of a live well, but my buddy is the one with the boat and time is limited as well. What to do? What to do? I have no patience


Few men ever reach, in any one direction, the limits of their possibilities. As in commerce, so here, the relation of supply to demand rules. Our mechanical and intellectual forces increase or decrease according to the demands made upon them. He who uses most will have most to use.
Re: fish management [Re: txhunt&fish10] #9915144 04/17/14 02:41 PM
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salex Offline
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Save your money and do it right. If you believe the lake is void of fish and do not have the budget to electroshock and cannot scare up any fish by angling then start over as a new lake. I'm unaware of research that shows 50% of lakes do not survive after year 1. That would be flawed internet advise. My guess is you probably have some fish, although you will have a very unhealthy balance of prey to predator (too many bass).

You need a MINIMUM of 7000 Bluegill/Red Ear Mix. Add 350 to 700 lbs of Fat head minnows. Add 350 bass fingerlings in June.

If you have a very limited budget. Add as many bluegill/red ear and fat head minnows as your budget will allow, hope like heck you have no predators (bass, crappie, catfish). Wait at least 1 full year, maybe 2 if you only put in a few hundred bluegill. Allow those bluegill to reproduce to thousands before you add bass. Add 350 bass in June (after you have waited at least a year).

If you do not know if you have any predators and have this limited budget, I would drain and Rotenone the water that will exist in pockets after the drain. Once it is 50% or more full. Start adding bluegill, DON'T ADD BASS. If you are in east texas you may want to consider adding lime to the lake bottom to support a phyto/zoo bloom.

LIMITED BUDGETS REQUIRE A LOT MORE PATIENCE.


Steve Alexander
salexander@privatewaterfishing.com
www.privatewaterfishing.com

Re: fish management [Re: txhunt&fish10] #9915532 04/17/14 04:49 PM
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txhunt&fish10 Offline OP
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The fatheads we added a couple years ago have come out well. The lake is full of em. The only predators in the lake would be turtles and I am not sure of the amount of damage they do to a bass population. The lake had dried completely except for maybe five foot deep in the middle and the birds had their way with the fish. I have seen only one Kingfisher and no Cranes since it filled back up and we restocked. The study I referenced came from The University of Auburn, who as they say, is the leader in fish management. I also researched several other studies from other universities as well and they all showed a survival rate between 43% and 57% depending on size of lake/pond and bass already in the lake/pond. Texas A&M among those showing those percentages. The size of our pond and the lack of predators would put, based on those studies, the survival rate between 50% and 60%. I definitely will not drain it, that sounds counterproductive although I understand your reasoning. However, waiting for the bluegill to reproduce sounds like a good idea.


Few men ever reach, in any one direction, the limits of their possibilities. As in commerce, so here, the relation of supply to demand rules. Our mechanical and intellectual forces increase or decrease according to the demands made upon them. He who uses most will have most to use.
Re: fish management [Re: txhunt&fish10] #9918545 04/18/14 08:12 PM
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salex Offline
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OK.

Not sure I understand the studies you are referring to. Auburn and Texas A@M are the leaders in fisheries management. I would need to see the studies you are referring. Perhaps my confusion on what your question is. But, new lakes with no fish in them, stocked properly have a much higher success rate than 50%.

Draining lakes is a great option for some lakes; especially where the lake has gotten old and is terribly out of balance. In these cases it is a lot cheaper to start over than to continue to plow money into something and not get the results you want. A good analogy is buying a 100 year old home that needs major repairs. Often times it makes since to bulldoze the home, and start over. At some point it can become cheaper and give you better results.


Steve Alexander
salexander@privatewaterfishing.com
www.privatewaterfishing.com

Re: fish management [Re: txhunt&fish10] #9918967 04/19/14 12:19 AM
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Here's some thoughts based on your info:

1) you likely do not have many bass in there...as evidenced by the large numbers of fatheads you report seeing. The fatheads disappear the first year in a bass pond, generally never to be seen again. The only way they can survive is without the presence of numbers of LMB. Absolutely do not spend one dime on adding more fatheads.

2) I'm willing to bet you do have some pretty good numbers of bluegills in there...again based on your comments indicating lack of LMB. You need to get out there with some worms and find out what you have in the way of bluegills....numbers, size distribution, and relative weight. All it takes to determine is a little effort...just go fishing for them and record some data.

3) I recommend strongly against bringing in mature fish from nearby lakes....they never grow out like a fingerling will and they may further add to your problem of balance.

4) You may actually have a great situation developing....Most of us don't wait long enough to bring in LMB and hence don't allow the forage base to really establish...you actually may have established that base, better than most...see #2 above.

5) bluegills survive low O2, which is present in low water situations you described, better than bass and just about any other pond fish....you need to find out what you have...see #2 above.

Don't despair...actually there is good reason to be very optimistic. Once you get a handle on the bluegill population, then you can plan from there. I'm betting you're going to have a great pond, if you get the rain in the watershed to keep it full.

Re: fish management [Re: Meadowlark] #9929619 04/23/14 02:03 PM
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Fishbreeder Offline
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Not wantin' to rain on the parade...but...

Almost every time somebody tells me their lake is full of fatheads, it ain't. Most folks see Gambusia aka "potguts" or "mosquitofish" around the edges and assume they are fatheads. They are not.

Fatheads, when seen in a water body will usually be in a large school of many hundreds of thousands of fish in deeper water, not a small group near the water's edge.

If that many in a lake right now, an easy way to see if they are fatheads is to pick up anything laying in the water and look on the bottom of it. If it has several small groups of eggs, all in a small bunch, and maybe a few of these, that is what fathead eggs look like. Fish eggs attached to the underside of a flat surface. Rock, stick mud clod, boat bottom, etc.

A really good way to get an idea of what fish are in the pond is to just use a 20' minnow seine and do a few short pulls around the shoreline. If there are bluegills, fatheads, redears, greens, even bass, you will likely catch some of them.

I'd sure wanna know if them minners is fatheads or not....


Fishbreeder


Re: fish management [Re: txhunt&fish10] #9960882 05/05/14 08:29 PM
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Mulholland Offline
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maybe you could enlist some help on here to do some tight line recon work for you and help you verify what, if any, fish population there is.

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