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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: OkAce]
#14516993
10/27/22 12:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,623
361V
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,623 |
you can't prove the put the weights in the fish but once they weighed those fish in then they claim those fish as their own. I wish I could on the Jury that day. So if you kill a deer and take it to a processor and it has .22 lead in it from someone trying to kill it in the past then you should be held accountable for that?
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14516995
10/27/22 12:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 317
Bassjiggin1955
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 317 |
They didn't use guns to steal the prize fund they use fishing weights. It's still a crime but I'm betting they get no jail time. Just big fines and probation.
Home of the Original Puffball jig Home of the Original Lions collar jig Building and fishing custom bass jigs since 1977
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: grout-scout]
#14517000
10/27/22 01:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,623
361V
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,623 |
And that damn funny right there^^^^^^! I don’t care who you are! Now I’m going sit back and be entertained by all the Perry Mason’s.
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517079
10/27/22 02:20 AM
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Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 317
Bassjiggin1955
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Sep 2022
Posts: 317 |
They'll walk they won't even put the cheaters here in Ca.In jail.
Home of the Original Puffball jig Home of the Original Lions collar jig Building and fishing custom bass jigs since 1977
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: WAWI]
#14517133
10/27/22 04:33 AM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 632
OkAce
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 632 |
you can't prove the put the weights in the fish but once they weighed those fish in then they claim those fish as their own. I wish I could on the Jury that day. So if you kill a deer and take it to a processor and it has .22 lead in it from someone trying to kill it in the past then you should be held accountable for that? What would you think the statistical probability is of catching 5 fish all with matching 12 oz weights in them..... you can pretty much prove it. Pretty much proving it isn’t proving it beyond reasonable doubt
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517272
10/27/22 01:01 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,884
Jay Kendrick
TFF Celebrity
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Posts: 7,884 |
This was to be expected. The state has the burden of proving each element of the charges against defendants beyond reasonable doubt. Surely there is an expert witness that will testify a walleye could still chase a lure and be caught with three lbs of weights in it. I’m guessing this doesn’t go to trial though. This is just a tactic to create leverage for a better plea deal.
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517291
10/27/22 01:23 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 812
CubbyObrien
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 812 |
The comments on this ordeal are starting to get funny.
The legal level of proof at this point is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" and that means --- the legal burden of proof required to affirm a conviction in a criminal case. The biggest issue with the case will be the "Chain of Custody" when it comes to the fish. A defense Attorney will try and say that the fish "at some point" were left unattended or out of the control of his client. meaning "someone else" could have placed the weights and filets in the fish. In a trial they will attack the credibility of the Tournament Director and anyone involved.
Now in saying that, the video absolutely helps! and the fact that the defendant just stood there and showed no defiance or defensiveness isn't good for their case. He stood there like a 5 year old that git caught stealing cookies! That's gonna be hard to explain. The search warrant being a surprise and not "Calling their lawyers" would have been a search warrant for the arrest and search for any evidence in the case. That evidence would look like: lead weights matching the ones pulled from the fish, cell phone text msgs or even email search's, past winnings like the boat etc....... That is one of the reasons they didn't just knock on the door. I mean if that was you! would you trash anything and everything related to your cheating empire! I suspect that the two guys just thought they would get a slap on the wrist or tickets and had no idea that a search warrant would have been served.
I expect that that there will be No plea deals in this case due to the publicity of the case. I also don't expect them to do hard time but ya never know.
The DNR did a great job and I would bet that the DA will do the same but just like everyone on this forum! you have the rights to your day in court and to be judged by a jury of your peers!
if you see folks bashing you because of your take on Law Enforcement actions, go ride out with your local PD or sheriff and see for your self what your tax money is paying for! Not saying that will change your stance but it will educate you as to how things are done on the street. You can watch COPS if you want or go sit in the passenger seat and see it for yourself!
Go home at the end of your shift, no matter the cost!
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517348
10/27/22 01:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,134
Dan21XRS
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,134 |
I'm thinking the tourney director made a big mistake by cutting all the fish open. He should have cut one and left the rest for law enforcement as evidence... Yeah it's all on video but once they stopped videoing where did the fish and weights go, who had custody of it, when did law enforcement take possession?... It gives the lawyers a sliver of wiggle room... It'll never go to trial... Small fine, maybe probation and a suspension of fishing privileges of a short while... A small slap on the wrist, because I'm thinking they really didn't have the passion for tournament fishing, so not fishing isn't a big loss. They probably got burned out losing all the time and saw a way make a few extra bucks by cheating. And they were probably treated like gods after their first few wins... Dan
"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood"... Lou Holtz
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: Jay Kendrick]
#14517349
10/27/22 02:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,578
UTDmiller
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,578 |
This was to be expected. The state has the burden of proving each element of the charges against defendants beyond reasonable doubt. Surely there is an expert witness that will testify a walleye could still chase a lure and be caught with three lbs of weights in it. I’m guessing this doesn’t go to trial though. This is just a tactic to create leverage for a better plea deal. this^, 100% a move to try and get a plea deal
John Miller
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517350
10/27/22 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 87
vdavid
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 87 |
I'm wondering if they're pleading not guilty for the prior tournament where they won the boat that was confiscated.
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517363
10/27/22 02:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,360
GeoFisher
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,360 |
If I were in their shoes, I would do the same thing. The punishment received from their peers and fishing community in general will far outweigh anything a court of law can hand down.
Everything on your bass boat is broken......You just don't know it yet.
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: GeoFisher]
#14517396
10/27/22 02:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,134
Dan21XRS
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,134 |
If I were in their shoes, I would do the same thing. The punishment received from their peers and fishing community in general will far outweigh anything a court of law can hand down. Yup... Dan
"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood"... Lou Holtz
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: OkAce]
#14517417
10/27/22 02:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 545
TomRom
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 545 |
They took their boat which my friend has the same model and payed around $100 K for it. So if they plead down to a lesser charge the agency can probably keep their equipment. Plus the video might not show all the fish being cut open, but there were a bunch of eye witnesses to them being cut open that will be more than willing to testify. As far as bringing in some expert witness to testify that these fish could still chase a bait with all those lead weight in them is very far fetched in my opinion. Plus how could they explain the fish filets also stuffed in them.
Last edited by TomRom; 10/27/22 02:45 PM.
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517487
10/27/22 03:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 369
Starkfishes
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 369 |
It seems like they would be able to demonstrate that a fish with that amount of weight in its belly would simply sink to the bottom of the lake and die. I think the prosecution can win this one. Just my $0.02.
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty.
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#14517516
10/27/22 04:32 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712
wsimpson
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 712 |
I too believe the strength and weakness of the case lies with the state’s ability to directly connect them to the weights. I suspect the search warrant was purposed in an attempt to accomplish this means. The strongest argument for the defense might be that these guys left their fish unattended at some point, like a suitcase in the airport when explaining to the jury, and the fish were either altered or switched by another. They could argue, with supporting evidentiary video, that there were many individuals that had the means, motive, and perhaps - opportunity…
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