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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: OkAce] #14516993 10/27/22 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by OkAce
Originally Posted by coachallentca
you can't prove the put the weights in the fish but once they weighed those fish in then they claim those fish as their own. I wish I could on the Jury that day.


So if you kill a deer and take it to a processor and it has .22 lead in it from someone trying to kill it in the past then you should be held accountable for that?

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Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14516995 10/27/22 12:57 AM
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They didn't use guns to steal the prize fund they use fishing weights. It's still a crime but I'm betting they get no jail time. Just big fines and probation.


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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: grout-scout] #14517000 10/27/22 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
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And that damn funny right there^^^^^^! I don’t care who you are! Now I’m going sit back and be entertained by all the Perry Mason’s.

Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517079 10/27/22 02:20 AM
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They'll walk they won't even put the cheaters here in Ca.In jail.


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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: WAWI] #14517133 10/27/22 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by WAWI
Originally Posted by OkAce
Originally Posted by coachallentca
you can't prove the put the weights in the fish but once they weighed those fish in then they claim those fish as their own. I wish I could on the Jury that day.


So if you kill a deer and take it to a processor and it has .22 lead in it from someone trying to kill it in the past then you should be held accountable for that?


What would you think the statistical probability is of catching 5 fish all with matching 12 oz weights in them..... you can pretty much prove it.


Pretty much proving it isn’t proving it beyond reasonable doubt

Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517272 10/27/22 01:01 PM
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This was to be expected. The state has the burden of proving each element of the charges against defendants beyond reasonable doubt. Surely there is an expert witness that will testify a walleye could still chase a lure and be caught with three lbs of weights in it. I’m guessing this doesn’t go to trial though. This is just a tactic to create leverage for a better plea deal.



Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517291 10/27/22 01:23 PM
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The comments on this ordeal are starting to get funny.

The legal level of proof at this point is "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" and that means --- the legal burden of proof required to affirm a conviction in a criminal case. The biggest issue with the case will be the "Chain of Custody" when it comes to the fish. A defense Attorney will try and say that the fish "at some point" were left unattended or out of the control of his client. meaning "someone else" could have placed the weights and filets in the fish. In a trial they will attack the credibility of the Tournament Director and anyone involved.

Now in saying that, the video absolutely helps! and the fact that the defendant just stood there and showed no defiance or defensiveness isn't good for their case. He stood there like a 5 year old that git caught stealing cookies! That's gonna be hard to explain. The search warrant being a surprise and not "Calling their lawyers" would have been a search warrant for the arrest and search for any evidence in the case. That evidence would look like: lead weights matching the ones pulled from the fish, cell phone text msgs or even email search's, past winnings like the boat etc....... That is one of the reasons they didn't just knock on the door. I mean if that was you! would you trash anything and everything related to your cheating empire! I suspect that the two guys just thought they would get a slap on the wrist or tickets and had no idea that a search warrant would have been served.

I expect that that there will be No plea deals in this case due to the publicity of the case. I also don't expect them to do hard time but ya never know.

The DNR did a great job and I would bet that the DA will do the same but just like everyone on this forum! you have the rights to your day in court and to be judged by a jury of your peers!

if you see folks bashing you because of your take on Law Enforcement actions, go ride out with your local PD or sheriff and see for your self what your tax money is paying for! Not saying that will change your stance but it will educate you as to how things are done on the street. You can watch COPS if you want or go sit in the passenger seat and see it for yourself!


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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517348 10/27/22 01:59 PM
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I'm thinking the tourney director made a big mistake by cutting all the fish open. He should have cut one and left the rest for law enforcement as evidence... Yeah it's all on video but once they stopped videoing where did the fish and weights go, who had custody of it, when did law enforcement take possession?... It gives the lawyers a sliver of wiggle room... It'll never go to trial... Small fine, maybe probation and a suspension of fishing privileges of a short while... A small slap on the wrist, because I'm thinking they really didn't have the passion for tournament fishing, so not fishing isn't a big loss. They probably got burned out losing all the time and saw a way make a few extra bucks by cheating. And they were probably treated like gods after their first few wins... Dan


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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: Jay Kendrick] #14517349 10/27/22 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jay Kendrick
This was to be expected. The state has the burden of proving each element of the charges against defendants beyond reasonable doubt. Surely there is an expert witness that will testify a walleye could still chase a lure and be caught with three lbs of weights in it. I’m guessing this doesn’t go to trial though. This is just a tactic to create leverage for a better plea deal.


this^, 100% a move to try and get a plea deal


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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517350 10/27/22 02:01 PM
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I'm wondering if they're pleading not guilty for the prior tournament where they won the boat that was confiscated.

Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517363 10/27/22 02:09 PM
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If I were in their shoes, I would do the same thing. The punishment received from their peers and fishing community in general will far outweigh anything a court of law can hand down.


Everything on your bass boat is broken......You just don't know it yet.
Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: GeoFisher] #14517396 10/27/22 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GeoFisher
If I were in their shoes, I would do the same thing. The punishment received from their peers and fishing community in general will far outweigh anything a court of law can hand down.


Yup... Dan


"The problem with having a sense of humor is often that people you use it on aren't in a very good mood"...
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Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: OkAce] #14517417 10/27/22 02:38 PM
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They took their boat which my friend has the same model and payed around $100 K for it. So if they plead down to a lesser charge the agency can probably keep their equipment. Plus the video might not show all the fish being cut open, but there were a bunch of eye witnesses to them being cut open that will be more than willing to testify. As far as bringing in some expert witness to testify that these fish could still chase a bait with all those lead weight in them is very far fetched in my opinion. Plus how could they explain the fish filets also stuffed in them.

Last edited by TomRom; 10/27/22 02:45 PM.
Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517487 10/27/22 03:52 PM
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It seems like they would be able to demonstrate that a fish with that amount of weight in its belly would simply sink to the bottom of the lake and die. I think the prosecution can win this one. Just my $0.02.

Re: Walleye cheaters plead not guilty. [Re: SteezMacQueen] #14517516 10/27/22 04:32 PM
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I too believe the strength and weakness of the case lies with the state’s ability to directly connect them to the weights. I suspect the search warrant was purposed in an attempt to accomplish this means. The strongest argument for the defense might be that these guys left their fish unattended at some point, like a suitcase in the airport when explaining to the jury, and the fish were either altered or switched by another. They could argue, with supporting evidentiary video, that there were many individuals that had the means, motive, and perhaps - opportunity…

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