|
Forums59
Topics1,039,741
Posts13,969,658
Members144,217
| |
Most Online39,925
Dec 30th, 2023
|
|
 Re: Chine walk
[Re: bigfishtx]
#12776579
06/01/18 03:36 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,439
Gamblinman
TFF Team Angler
|
|
TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,439 |
I've been mid 70s in a ZX 21, absolutely no chining. I've been in a triton that was chining bad at 65.
I had a buddy that had a 2000 22' Gambler that would chine like crazy when you got upper 70s and up.
I had a 2001 Gambler Intimidator that would not chine at all, up to 82. I used to wave at people with both hands at 77-78 when I passed them. They changed the hull that year. The only time I really did try to get top speed, the entire boat "slipped" to the side at about 83, just a little but enough to scare me to death. I nearly filled my pants. Checked around on scaryfast.com and those guys called it "crabbing". They said nosecone inconsistencies at high speeds can cause a void on one side of the gear case and the prop will slip, torque takes over and with not much boat in the water it's a bad deal. They said it usually happens right before you go into a hook/spin/flip whatever. All I know is that was the last day I did that.
71 in my current boat is plenty fast for me now. That phenomenon is known as Prop Blowout in the world of go-fast vee bottoms. Basically you are running fast enough that the lower unit cannot supply water to the prop to keep it hooked up. Look at the Merc Sportmaster LU's and you can see how Merc has addressed the issue. Prop blowout was a common thing back in the late 70's and into the 80's. When the prop turned loose on my HydraSport it was violent. It normally occurred as you got the boat strung out and flying then you encountered a boat wake. This would disturb the flow of water to the prop enough to cause it to lose bite for just a split second. The bow would suddenly drop and the boat would hook HARD to the left. You would do an 85 mph donut in about 2 lengths of the boat. The first time it happened to me at Lavon I could not believe the boat stayed upright. Good times! LOL On my old HydraSport we bought a nose cone kit and used Marine-Tex to attach it to the LU. It made the LU more streamlined and also allowed you to run the motor at much higher transom levels to reduce the drag of the LU. That kit also came with a low water pickup that was ugly as all get out but kept the motor cool at elevated transom levels. Here's a pic I dug up.  Thanks Ken! whatever it's called, it's an eye opener! That LU on that 225 EFI was modded at Gambler, or was done by the original owner. I was the second owner. They removed the trim tab anode completely, then made a cut about 1" on the trailing edge of the skeg about 3" from the bottom and bent it over to account for the torque. It also had 4 water pickups, 2 on the nose cone bottom and 2 on the top I think. I wish I'd paid more attention to those things back then, all I knew is it was fast and fun, and would hit the rev limiter with a 27" PowerTech TR04 at about 83 mph. It definitely could have turned a bigger wheel. Gambler welded a trim tab on right hand rotation Mercury lower units that did not have a cast-in torque tab at the Gambler factory. The rest is aftermarket.
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: Ken A.]
#12776817
06/01/18 06:38 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,495
SteezMacQueen
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 23,495 |
So why did inboard motors and Berkeley jet drives never make it on bass boats? Because the big block motors weigh 1,100# and it takes 500 HP on a jet drive boat to run 65 mph. They are just not efficient power plants. I wonder if a current generation motor would work. An LS7 GM motor is a very low profile motor that weighs in around 500 lbs and is capable of 700-800 RELIABLE Hp. The electronics on the new motors makes them efficient.
Eat. Sleep. Fish.
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#12776918
06/01/18 07:49 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,531
Ken A.
Groovy
|
|
Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,531 |
So why did inboard motors and Berkeley jet drives never make it on bass boats? Because the big block motors weigh 1,100# and it takes 500 HP on a jet drive boat to run 65 mph. They are just not efficient power plants. I wonder if a current generation motor would work. An LS7 GM motor is a very low profile motor that weighs in around 500 lbs and is capable of 700-800 RELIABLE Hp. The electronics on the new motors makes them efficient. That would certainly be an improvement in the weight department. One of the other reasons jet drive bass boats never found wide spread popularity is the way the jet drive works. The jet drive unit was prone to sucking any vegetation close to it up into the impeller. There is a large intake "grate" in front of the jet drive unit that takes in massive volumes of water to provide propulsion. Google images of jet drives.
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: SteezMacQueen]
#12776921
06/01/18 07:51 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12,251
tmd11111
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12,251 |
So why did inboard motors and Berkeley jet drives never make it on bass boats? Because the big block motors weigh 1,100# and it takes 500 HP on a jet drive boat to run 65 mph. They are just not efficient power plants. I wonder if a current generation motor would work. An LS7 GM motor is a very low profile motor that weighs in around 500 lbs and is capable of 700-800 RELIABLE Hp. The electronics on the new motors makes them efficient. It's not so much the motor being inefficient as it is the jet drive being inefficient and the space they take up. Ranger tried a stern drive bassboat back in the late 70's or early 80's. basically took away the rear deck
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: Kay Dyson]
#12777249
06/02/18 01:10 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,046
Fast Lane
TFF Celebrity
|
|
TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,046 |
Performance hulls do not have wedge built into them which help speed. The boats that don't chine walk have wedge built in. AKA: Training wheels.
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: Chris G]
#12777431
06/02/18 04:10 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 654
Slefler
Pro Angler
|
|
Pro Angler
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 654 |
Only boat I've ever driven that wanted to chine walk was my tourney partner's old Triton. Billy - call Gary Dobyns and ask him about chine walking. He says if you aren't chine walking then you aren't driving the boat hard enough. I think Billy is making a comparison of boats from factory with no tweeks to them. Say, like my Phoenix compared to a Skeeter. The FX at 72 I can drive with one finger drinking coffee. The Phoenix at 72 is like riding Foo Man Chu! You have to drive it to keep her steady. Gotcha. My V-20 is so smooth at top speed it has a cruise control button............too bad they aren't gonna make any more of them. I thought the V-20 was going to be the only one they still made?
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: Kay Dyson]
#12777439
06/02/18 04:24 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 55,364
SkeeterRonnie
Super Freak
|
|
Super Freak
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 55,364 |
Fastest I have been in my 21i is 76.3 and it still doesn't chine walk. so smooth you can drive with one hand, too! I don't think I'll ever get rid of this one, maybe a few repowers in the future. the 300HPDI on it is a gas drinking fool! Maybe in the distant future that new ProXS 4-stroke with a ECM mod to ~300hp. (my max rated limit is 300). Years ago I had a Bullet that you had to play with the steering wheel to keep it going straight, same with the Basscat I had a couple years ago. Great boats, but I don't like having to concentrate on jerking the wheel.... I like cruising like a big ol fat Cadillac. Not a big old fat Lincoln Town Car, Like a Ranger, though. that would be miserable 
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: SkeeterRonnie]
#12777531
06/02/18 11:52 AM
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,200
Kay Dyson
OP
HOT Mess!!!
|
|
OP
HOT Mess!!!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,200 |
That 21i is a nice rig, you and the family will surely enjoy that beast 
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: Kay Dyson]
#12777553
06/02/18 12:39 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,001
lakeforkfisherman
Elliptical Mechanic
|
|
Elliptical Mechanic
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,001 |
One thing I didnt see mentioned already- if you begin to chine, and feel its too unsafe to correct and maintain speed, dont abruptly let off the hot foot. Can be a big mistake as the nose will suddenly drop and which ever direction the keel is leaning is the direction the boat will go- driver and passenger will go the opposite direction. Hang on and slowly back off the hot foot while bumping the trim down.
My Gambler would chine slightly above 75 and it took a lot of seat time to learn how to control it. Once I figured it out, it became second nature and she flew straight and steady.
LET’S GO BRANDON!!!
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: lakeforkfisherman]
#12777578
06/02/18 01:26 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,531
Ken A.
Groovy
|
|
Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,531 |
One thing I didnt see mentioned already- if you begin to chine, and feel its too unsafe to correct and maintain speed, dont abruptly let off the hot foot. Can be a big mistake as the nose will suddenly drop and which ever direction the keel is leaning is the direction the boat will go- driver and passenger will go the opposite direction. Hang on and slowly back off the hot foot while bumping the trim down. Good point LF Fisherman. The "consumer" motors have soft rubber mounts. This is to minimize vibration felt in the boat from the motor. When you are trimmed up & truckin these mounts are stretched way to the side due to propeller torque. The higher you have the motor mounted on the jackplate, the worse this gets. The Merc Racing motors have solid hard mounts. This helps to minimize what you have experienced when you suddenly chop the throttle at high speed. With the solid mounts the motor is not allowed to torque to the side as badly as with the rubber mounts. Pic below shows the cover removed to reveal the lower motor mounts. There is another set but you have to remove the powerhead to access them. 
Last edited by Ken A.; 06/02/18 01:33 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: Kay Dyson]
#12777655
06/02/18 02:51 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,200
Kay Dyson
OP
HOT Mess!!!
|
|
OP
HOT Mess!!!
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 16,200 |
To say this post has been educational is an understatement, precisely what I was hoping for. The knowledge and experience you guys have is exceptional. I've learned a lot, I'm sure some of our younger anglers have as well... Thanks to you guys... 
|
|
|
Re: Chine walk
[Re: C130]
#12778612
06/03/18 04:31 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,531
Ken A.
Groovy
|
|
Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,531 |
This is the best write up on boat setup & driving I have ever read. No truer words have ever been written about hi-perf bass rigs. "Setup vs. Driving: Setup and driving skill are two completely different animals, but they are commonly confused. I found myself trying to blame boat setup for my lack of driving skill. As a new high performance boat owner, the sooner you reconcile yourself to the fact that you cant drive, the better off you will be. I know you have been in boats your whole life, but the world changes when you cross the 70mph boundary and there is little hull in the water. It's just a different set of physics at work, your general boating skill becomes largely irrellevant. Deal with it"
|
|
Moderated by banker-always fishing, chickenman, Derek 🐝, Duck_Hunter, Fish Killer, J-2, Jacob, Jons3825, JustWingem, Nocona Brian, Toon-Troller, Uncle Zeek, Weekender1
|
