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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: Fishinfellow]
#12360706
07/27/17 01:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 38,566
Frank the Tank
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 38,566 |
None of this would be an issue if everyone has VT-2 live-well vents Now that's funny right there
Jesus loves all of us
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360752
07/27/17 01:54 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 596
TxBazzn
OP
Pro Angler
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OP
Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 596 |
Not really out to prove anything just wanted to know what/if there is research behind it. Technology has come a long way. I'm an avid tournament angler and have never had a fish die in my livewell for anything other than a gut or gill hooked.
In a 3 fish tournament there has been multiple times where I culled out to a point where at least 5 fish spent the same amount time in my livewell as a 5 fish tournament. The difference being only 3 in there at a time and only 3 going to the scales. The reason I mentioned oxygenators, fish care additives, and the recirculation is because all of those apply to the concept of fish waste causing mortality in live wells. And oxygenators would make a difference with the argument of lower oxygen levels at the top of water column in heated months.
I haven't seen a tournament with the mortality rates that the assumptions above are stating in a really long time. And yet that's the argument folks continue to give. Just hoped someone knew a study supporting it.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360760
07/27/17 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,665
squib
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,665 |
TxBazzn Here is the research on the Oxygenators. Looks like the best thing to do is just keep your recirc pump going. The very best thing is to add a true oxygen injection system, but that requires an outlay of cost, space and time. https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it
Last edited by squib; 07/27/17 01:58 PM.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360766
07/27/17 02:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,339
forkduc
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 16,339 |
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360767
07/27/17 02:03 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,050
BMCD
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,050 |
Kinda obvious when the hot weather hits. They have a cooler for the dead fish.
And its not something that has always been done.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360778
07/27/17 02:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,525
ssmith
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,525 |
oxygenators great livewell care in the heat of the summer with water temps as high as they are if you fish til 3 oclock there will be dead fish an this looks bad. with 3 fish your odds go down with dead fish because of a lower number an crowding in the livewell.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360781
07/27/17 02:14 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,736
Barrett
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 8,736 |
I bet half your tournament fish end up dying in the hott months. You can use oxygen, flip clips, fizz, ice or water bottles and please release me and it's still tough on those fish.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360826
07/27/17 02:38 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,686
NoWeighers
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,686 |
A little long..
Oxygen Systems for Bass Boats - TP+W Official News Release
Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass By Randy Myers and Jason Driscoll Inland Fisheries Division Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
June 2011 Bass fishing heats up in summer, but extra effort is required by tournament anglers to maintain the health of their catch this time of year. Dissolved oxygen is the single most important factor for keeping bass alive, and an understanding of factors that affect oxygen levels will better enable anglers to keep their fish alive.
At a moderate water temperature of 70˚F, 100 percent oxygen saturation is 8.8 mg/l of oxygen, whereas at the higher temperature of 80˚F, 100 percent saturation is 7.9 mg/l. Both of these 100 percent saturation oxygen levels are suitable for keeping bass alive. Concentrations of oxygen can and often do exceed 100 percent saturation, and when this happens, oxygen naturally escapes from water.
Oxygen levels in Texas reservoirs are at their highest in summer months, sometimes reaching 13-14 mg/l, which is well above 100 percent saturation. Dense algae populations occurring this time of year produce oxygen through photosynthesis at a higher rate than excess oxygen can naturally escape through the waters surface or be used by fish. Thus, Texas reservoirs are oxygen-rich environments for fish during summer. This changes rapidly when fish are caught and placed into a livewell.
Water pumped into livewells becomes depleted of oxygen quickly. A bass's metabolism is in high gear in summer, resulting in rapid oxygen uptake. Photosynthesis ceases inside livewells because of the dark environment. Therefore, it is necessary to provide oxygen to keep fish alive.
Most modern livewell systems have two options to maintain oxygen in livewells and these usually can operate in tandem or individually. Water can be continuously pumped in from the reservoir forcing out existing less-oxygenated water through livewell overflows, thereby keeping livewell oxygen close to the oxygen levels in the reservoir. Second, the level of oxygen in the water can be increased by mixing water with air via recirculation of existing livewell water so that oxygen contained in the air can be dissolved into livewell water. Both these means of supplying livewell oxygen have their limitations
Biologists have determined it is not advisable to continuously exchange water during summer months, because reservoir surface water temperatures often become excessive later in the day and can contribute to mortality. Alternatively, anglers are urged to maintain livewell water temperature five to eight degrees cooler than the reservoir temperature to slow fish metabolism, run livewell recirculation pumps continuously to provide oxygen by mixing and exchange water in livewells only two to three times a day.
Livewell recirculation systems are incapable of maintaining oxygen concentrations higher than 100 percent saturation, even in the absence of fish. The water-air mixing which introduces oxygen into livewell water also serves to remove oxygen in excess of saturation level concentration. With small to moderate limits of fish, five fish weighing up to 15 pounds total, fully functioning recirculation systems can maintain oxygen between 5 and 7 mg/l. Although this concentration is substantially lower than normal reservoir oxygen levels, it is sufficient to keep fish healthy. Oxygen levels below 4 mg/l are harmful to bass, especially if allowed to remain this low. Note that there is little buffer between the oxygen level harmful to bass and the level maintained by livewell recirculation systems.
Without injecting oxygen into the livewell, it is very difficult to supply enough oxygen to keep alive heavier tournament limits. These can exceed 30 pounds and are common at Falcon, Amistad and other Texas reservoirs. Numerous scientific studies have shown that larger bass are inherently more susceptible to tournament mortality, which further compounds the difficulty of maintaining the health of heavy limits. Modern bass boat livewells average about 30 gallons total capacity, and this capacity is effectively reduced when containing a heavy limit of fish, as the fish biomass displaces water out through the overflows unless they are plugged. In this example the load ratio is more than one pound of bass for every gallon of water. Think of two five-pound fish in a 10-gallon aquarium or one five-pound fish in a five-gallon bucket.
When anglers are fortunate enough to have a heavy limit, they should be mindful that their fish are at severe risk of mortality because of insufficient oxygen. Remember there is only a small buffer between the oxygen level maintained by recirculation systems and the oxygen level detrimental to fish survival when a livewell contains a small to moderate limit. In the case of a heavy limit, there is even less water to hold oxygen relative to the biomass of fish, and the large fish have a higher oxygen demand. Fully functioning livewell systems and proper application of proven livewell management and fish care procedures are absolutely necessary and may keep a heavy fish limit healthy, but oxygen injection offers a surer alternative.
Oxygen injection has long been used by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) hatcheries to maintain the health of fish being stocked into reservoirs. Fisheries staff regularly transport or hold fish in ratios equal to or greater than one pound of fish to a gallon of water. However, boat manufactures do not offer oxygen injection system options, and very few tournament anglers have installed oxygen equipment on their boats. Minimal information is available concerning effective and necessary equipment to do so.
TPWD's Inland Fisheries team in San Antonio tested various oxygen cylinders, regulators, hoses, connectors and diffusers and determined a simple, effective and safe system that anglers can install in their bass boats. Equipment was evaluated on three different bass boat makes having slightly different recirculation systems. Testing revealed that livewell oxygen concentration after one hour was about twice as high for the oxygen injection system compared to standard recirculation when a small to moderate fish limit was present. When a 27.6 lb five-fish limit was added, oxygen fell below the critical 4 mg/l level with only the recirculation pumps running, whereas oxygen level rose to slightly above 100 percent saturation level to 10 mg/l when oxygen injection was turned on.
Proper installation and operation of an oxygen injection system will ensure oxygen levels remain above the preferred level of 7 mg/l even when livewells contain heavy limits. Tournament anglers desiring specifics about system components, installation, safety, operation and cost can view an informational Power Point presentation.
Also, demonstration oxygen injection units can be seen at Falcon Lake Tackle in Zapata and at Angler's Lodge in Del Rio.
Anglers should be aware that during summer the vast majority of tournament fish mortality occurs one to three days after release back into the reservoir. Recent TPWD studies involving major tournaments at Amistad showed low initial mortality year-round, but high delayed mortality for summer-time events.
Initial mortality represents the percentage of tournament fish weighed in dead and ranged from 1.7 to 8.7 percent among five tournaments held from January to September. For each of these same tournaments a large sample of tournament fish was placed into large holding pens to determine delayed mortality, which is the percentage of fish dying within three days after release.
Delayed mortality was low (less than 5 percent) for tournament events held when the reservoir water temperature was less than 65 degrees. However, delayed mortality ranged from 18.2 to 43.1 percent for tournament events held when the water temperature exceeded 79 degrees. Totaling initial and delayed mortality for one of the studied tournaments revealed that 50.1 percent of all weighed-in fish died at that particular tournament. Anglers should be mindful that many of the fish released alive back into the reservoir during summer experience mortality a short time later. Although use of proper livewell management and fish-care procedures will somewhat increase the likelihood of long-term survival of tournament-caught and released fish, oxygen injection guarantees against low oxygen causing mortality.
Anglers having questions or desiring more information about livewell management, oxygen injection or tournament mortality studies can contact TPWD Inland Fisheries staff at the San Antonio office, (210) 688-9460.
James Bendele Falcon Lake Tackle "On the eighth day, Man invented the Fish Hook."
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360832
07/27/17 02:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,714
Bass Buster1
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,714 |
They are fish, they taste great, just eat them if they die! Not a huge deal.
See you on the lake and have a great day!
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360850
07/27/17 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,210
shotgunwilly
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,210 |
I always hear to use the recirc, add ice, put in an additive, etc. when it's hot. I just run the fill pump a lot and keep fresh water constantly coming in during the summer, and I never have a problem.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: shotgunwilly]
#12360896
07/27/17 03:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,293
Bigron119
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,293 |
I always hear to use the recirc, add ice, put in an additive, etc. when it's hot. I just run the fill pump a lot and keep fresh water constantly coming in during the summer, and I never have a problem. Gotta love that hot surface water. Steams the fish nice and toasty!
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: TxBazzn]
#12360946
07/27/17 03:38 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,522
Ken A.
Groovy
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Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,522 |
Fill the livewells all the way early in the morning then add 20# of ice and Please Release Me additive. Run the Oxygenator and the Recirc only pumps all day. Don't pump any fresh water onto the fish during the day.
Only lost a couple fish this way in the hottest part of the summer and they had been deep hooked.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: Bigron119]
#12360999
07/27/17 04:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,210
shotgunwilly
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,210 |
I always hear to use the recirc, add ice, put in an additive, etc. when it's hot. I just run the fill pump a lot and keep fresh water constantly coming in during the summer, and I never have a problem. Gotta love that hot surface water. Steams the fish nice and toasty! Never lose fish... so I think I'll keep pumping fresh water in.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: Huckleberry]
#12361062
07/27/17 04:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,220
Insurance man
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,220 |
Just make it a rule that everyone needs to use mono. There's no way anyone could catch more than three fish using mono.
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Re: 3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?
[Re: Bigron119]
#12361077
07/27/17 05:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,973
Txduckhunter
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,973 |
I always hear to use the recirc, add ice, put in an additive, etc. when it's hot. I just run the fill pump a lot and keep fresh water constantly coming in during the summer, and I never have a problem. Gotta love that hot surface water. Steams the fish nice and toasty! I wonder..... I catch most of my fish, even in the summer, in 5' of water or less. I totally understand if your fishing deep but how much does it affect the shallow fish? I also seldom lose a fish and run the pumps non-stop once a fish gets put in the box. We did lose 2 fish last Sunday. One had his gill plates torn when he came into the boat, I knew that fish was dead as soon as I saw him. The other one was a dink and I have no idea why he died. He was in trouble within minutes of putting him in the box. I put additives in the box and ran it non-stop. He revived quite a bit and then 10 minutes later, rolled over dead. Sucked, I hate losing fish and it cost the boys a check.
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