3-fish tournaments... Is there science to support it?

It seems to be common place whenever it gets hot that 3 fish limits become the norm for tournaments instead of the traditional 5. I've searched the web and can't find any true research supporting that belief (not saying it's not there, I just haven't seen any). Most of today's live well systems are loaded with oxygenators and tournament anglers are more aware of fish care and use some sort of fish care product, so what's the deal?
I want to understand whether the concept is real or just a product of tradition where they assume all the fish are going to die so might as well only make it 3 per angler.
3-fish tournaments are significantly different in approach than 5 so making that sort of switch during trail events for summer tournaments can really change the dynamics. Just curious if it's worth it or are we just doing what we always did because we always did it..
All thoughts and opinions are welcome but I'm really interested in facts to help me understand. Thanks everyone.

Do you need a research paper to prove that mortality increases during tournaments in the hotter months?
Assume 1 in 20 Bass die from a tournament held in July. Total bass caught by 40 anglers for a five fish limit during the tournament is 200. That would mean 10 Bass would die during that tournament. Now make that a three fish limit. Now you have 120 total fish for a total mortality of 6 fish. I would also say that the mortality rate will decrease with fewer Bass in the livewell but I only have personal experience to prove it.
Maybe someone can give you a specific research study.

On our Working Mans T for Alan Henry, Lubbock set the limit at 3 fish, of course, we fish a WEIRD lake for limits. ANY 2 fish, ANY LENGTH may be kept, but if you keep a 3rd fish, it has to be 18" long or longer. That applies to Alabama spotted bass and LMB. Heard someone caught a Smallie last year that was only 1.25 lbs, if THAT is so, some of the smallies spawned and are continuing to spawn, which is GREAT news for all of us in the panhandle. NOW we just need to get TPWD to stock more smallies. Here is the exception rule for AH.

For largemouth and spotted bass there is no minimum length limit. Combined daily bag limit for all species of black bass = 5 fish. Up to 5 largemouth or spotted bass may be retained; however, only 2 may be less than 18 inches.

IF you catch a smallie, it is state wide regulations of 14", as that species is not listed in the AH registrar. Go figure.

Tight lines, keep safe and good luck.

Thad Rains

Given an equal number of anglers in two scenarios, the one with the lower fish cap will bring fewer fish to the scale, and fewer would have been kept in livewells vs. immediate release.

So, it is very easy to simulate a set of results (using typical tournament data). Any fish released immediately has a better chance of survival from a risk perspective. Conversely, fewer fish are exposed to livewell holding and going to the scale. THERE IS MORTALITY from this - it has been proven over and over, though survival is a heck of a lot better than vs. a fillet knife.

Therefore, fewer fish in the livewell (in total) and fewer fish at the scales (in total) will mean fewer dead fish 3 days later. It's not necessarily proven that 3 survive better than 5 from a crowding perspective in a livewell, but the rule DOES reduce the number that are put at risk of dying by the shear limitation on how many get subjected to this.

What are you trying to understand? Are you putting on tournaments? If so, set the limit to what you want within the guidelines of the law if you want to kill fish. If you are fishing tournaments and want to turn in more fish, pick the one where the TD puts profit over the sport and the future of the fisheries.

Don't base any decision or opinion on oxygenators providing any benefit. Research has shown they do not. I like 3-fish tournaments in the summer as I assume livewells can better support less biomass than more in hot weather.

I have seen Parks and Wildlife do lots of studies on Lake Amistad. Watched them put huge cages to hold a select few of Bass for 3 days after big tournaments to see just how many make it and how many don't. Wish I knew the results. I agree all these surveys like this will help. The results just needs to be published somewhere for the public to view.

This is the same way I feel

Must be the new Common Core math! Hot Weather + More Fish = Better, Hot Weather - Less Fish = Worse

Hey! That's my line!

None of this would be an issue if everyone has VT-2 live-well vents

Now that's funny right there

Just make it a rule that everyone needs to use mono. There's no way anyone could catch more than three fish using mono.

Or pure oxygen systems

Just common sense!

Not really out to prove anything just wanted to know what/if there is research behind it. Technology has come a long way. I'm an avid tournament angler and have never had a fish die in my livewell for anything other than a gut or gill hooked.

In a 3 fish tournament there has been multiple times where I culled out to a point where at least 5 fish spent the same amount time in my livewell as a 5 fish tournament. The difference being only 3 in there at a time and only 3 going to the scales.
The reason I mentioned oxygenators, fish care additives, and the recirculation is because all of those apply to the concept of fish waste causing mortality in live wells. And oxygenators would make a difference with the argument of lower oxygen levels at the top of water column in heated months.

I haven't seen a tournament with the mortality rates that the assumptions above are stating in a really long time. And yet that's the argument folks continue to give. Just hoped someone knew a study supporting it.

TxBazzn
Here is the research on the Oxygenators. Looks like the best thing to do is just keep your recirc pump going. The very best thing is to add a true oxygen injection system, but that requires an outlay of cost, space and time.


https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it

Common sense!

Kinda obvious when the hot weather hits. They have a cooler for the dead fish.

And its not something that has always been done.

oxygenators great livewell care in the heat of the summer with water temps as high as they are if you fish til 3 oclock there will be dead fish an this looks bad. with 3 fish your odds go down with dead fish because of a lower number an crowding in the livewell.

I bet half your tournament fish end up dying in the hott months. You can use oxygen, flip clips, fizz, ice or water bottles and please release me and it's still tough on those fish.

A little long..

Oxygen Systems for Bass Boats - TP+W Official News Release

Oxygenation of Livewells to Improve Survival of Tournament-Caught Bass
By Randy Myers and Jason Driscoll
Inland Fisheries Division
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department

June 2011
Bass fishing heats up in summer, but extra effort is required by tournament anglers to maintain the health of their catch this time of year. Dissolved oxygen is the single most important factor for keeping bass alive, and an understanding of factors that affect oxygen levels will better enable anglers to keep their fish alive.

At a moderate water temperature of 70˚F, 100 percent oxygen saturation is 8.8 mg/l of oxygen, whereas at the higher temperature of 80˚F, 100 percent saturation is 7.9 mg/l. Both of these 100 percent saturation oxygen levels are suitable for keeping bass alive. Concentrations of oxygen can and often do exceed 100 percent saturation, and when this happens, oxygen naturally escapes from water.

Oxygen levels in Texas reservoirs are at their highest in summer months, sometimes reaching 13-14 mg/l, which is well above 100 percent saturation. Dense algae populations occurring this time of year produce oxygen through photosynthesis at a higher rate than excess oxygen can naturally escape through the water’s surface or be used by fish. Thus, Texas reservoirs are oxygen-rich environments for fish during summer. This changes rapidly when fish are caught and placed into a livewell.

Water pumped into livewells becomes depleted of oxygen quickly. A bass's metabolism is in high gear in summer, resulting in rapid oxygen uptake. Photosynthesis ceases inside livewells because of the dark environment. Therefore, it is necessary to provide oxygen to keep fish alive.

Most modern livewell systems have two options to maintain oxygen in livewells and these usually can operate in tandem or individually. Water can be continuously pumped in from the reservoir forcing out existing less-oxygenated water through livewell overflows, thereby keeping livewell oxygen close to the oxygen levels in the reservoir. Second, the level of oxygen in the water can be increased by mixing water with air via recirculation of existing livewell water so that oxygen contained in the air can be dissolved into livewell water. Both these means of supplying livewell oxygen have their limitations

Biologists have determined it is not advisable to continuously exchange water during summer months, because reservoir surface water temperatures often become excessive later in the day and can contribute to mortality. Alternatively, anglers are urged to maintain livewell water temperature five to eight degrees cooler than the reservoir temperature to slow fish metabolism, run livewell recirculation pumps continuously to provide oxygen by mixing and exchange water in livewells only two to three times a day.

Livewell recirculation systems are incapable of maintaining oxygen concentrations higher than 100 percent saturation, even in the absence of fish. The water-air mixing which introduces oxygen into livewell water also serves to remove oxygen in excess of saturation level concentration. With small to moderate limits of fish, five fish weighing up to 15 pounds total, fully functioning recirculation systems can maintain oxygen between 5 and 7 mg/l. Although this concentration is substantially lower than normal reservoir oxygen levels, it is sufficient to keep fish healthy. Oxygen levels below 4 mg/l are harmful to bass, especially if allowed to remain this low. Note that there is little buffer between the oxygen level harmful to bass and the level maintained by livewell recirculation systems.

Without injecting oxygen into the livewell, it is very difficult to supply enough oxygen to keep alive heavier tournament limits. These can exceed 30 pounds and are common at Falcon, Amistad and other Texas reservoirs. Numerous scientific studies have shown that larger bass are inherently more susceptible to tournament mortality, which further compounds the difficulty of maintaining the health of heavy limits. Modern bass boat livewells average about 30 gallons total capacity, and this capacity is effectively reduced when containing a heavy limit of fish, as the fish biomass displaces water out through the overflows unless they are plugged. In this example the load ratio is more than one pound of bass for every gallon of water. Think of two five-pound fish in a 10-gallon aquarium or one five-pound fish in a five-gallon bucket.

When anglers are fortunate enough to have a heavy limit, they should be mindful that their fish are at severe risk of mortality because of insufficient oxygen. Remember there is only a small buffer between the oxygen level maintained by recirculation systems and the oxygen level detrimental to fish survival when a livewell contains a small to moderate limit. In the case of a heavy limit, there is even less water to hold oxygen relative to the biomass of fish, and the large fish have a higher oxygen demand. Fully functioning livewell systems and proper application of proven livewell management and fish care procedures are absolutely necessary and may keep a heavy fish limit healthy, but oxygen injection offers a surer alternative.

Oxygen injection has long been used by Texas Parks and Wildlife Department (TPWD) hatcheries to maintain the health of fish being stocked into reservoirs. Fisheries staff regularly transport or hold fish in ratios equal to or greater than one pound of fish to a gallon of water. However, boat manufactures do not offer oxygen injection system options, and very few tournament anglers have installed oxygen equipment on their boats. Minimal information is available concerning effective and necessary equipment to do so.

TPWD's Inland Fisheries team in San Antonio tested various oxygen cylinders, regulators, hoses, connectors and diffusers and determined a simple, effective and safe system that anglers can install in their bass boats. Equipment was evaluated on three different bass boat makes having slightly different recirculation systems. Testing revealed that livewell oxygen concentration after one hour was about twice as high for the oxygen injection system compared to standard recirculation when a small to moderate fish limit was present. When a 27.6 lb five-fish limit was added, oxygen fell below the critical 4 mg/l level with only the recirculation pumps running, whereas oxygen level rose to slightly above 100 percent saturation level to 10 mg/l when oxygen injection was turned on.

Proper installation and operation of an oxygen injection system will ensure oxygen levels remain above the preferred level of 7 mg/l even when livewells contain heavy limits. Tournament anglers desiring specifics about system components, installation, safety, operation and cost can view an informational Power Point presentation.

Also, demonstration oxygen injection units can be seen at Falcon Lake Tackle in Zapata and at Angler's Lodge in Del Rio.

Anglers should be aware that during summer the vast majority of tournament fish mortality occurs one to three days after release back into the reservoir. Recent TPWD studies involving major tournaments at Amistad showed low initial mortality year-round, but high delayed mortality for summer-time events.

Initial mortality represents the percentage of tournament fish weighed in dead and ranged from 1.7 to 8.7 percent among five tournaments held from January to September. For each of these same tournaments a large sample of tournament fish was placed into large holding pens to determine delayed mortality, which is the percentage of fish dying within three days after release.

Delayed mortality was low (less than 5 percent) for tournament events held when the reservoir water temperature was less than 65 degrees. However, delayed mortality ranged from 18.2 to 43.1 percent for tournament events held when the water temperature exceeded 79 degrees. Totaling initial and delayed mortality for one of the studied tournaments revealed that 50.1 percent of all weighed-in fish died at that particular tournament. Anglers should be mindful that many of the fish released alive back into the reservoir during summer experience mortality a short time later. Although use of proper livewell management and fish-care procedures will somewhat increase the likelihood of long-term survival of tournament-caught and released fish, oxygen injection guarantees against low oxygen causing mortality.

Anglers having questions or desiring more information about livewell management, oxygen injection or tournament mortality studies can contact TPWD Inland Fisheries staff at the San Antonio office, (210) 688-9460.

They are fish, they taste great, just eat them if they die! Not a huge deal.

I always hear to use the recirc, add ice, put in an additive, etc. when it's hot. I just run the fill pump a lot and keep fresh water constantly coming in during the summer, and I never have a problem.

Gotta love that hot surface water. Steams the fish nice and toasty!

Fill the livewells all the way early in the morning then add 20# of ice and Please Release Me additive. Run the Oxygenator and the Recirc only pumps all day. Don't pump any fresh water onto the fish during the day.

Only lost a couple fish this way in the hottest part of the summer and they had been deep hooked.

Never lose fish... so I think I'll keep pumping fresh water in.

I wonder.....
I catch most of my fish, even in the summer, in 5' of water or less.
I totally understand if your fishing deep but how much does it affect the shallow fish? I also seldom lose a fish and run the pumps non-stop once a fish gets put in the box.
We did lose 2 fish last Sunday. One had his gill plates torn when he came into the boat, I knew that fish was dead as soon as I saw him. The other one was a dink and I have no idea why he died. He was in trouble within minutes of putting him in the box. I put additives in the box and ran it non-stop. He revived quite a bit and then 10 minutes later, rolled over dead. Sucked, I hate losing fish and it cost the boys a check.

I've got my VT-2 vents and use recirculating and never lose fish. They're very lively at end of day. No ice and no addative needed

Aint no way I'm buying two little pieces of plastic tube for 50 bucks!

Remember what P.T. Barnum said.....

Has any trusted independent entity ever installed one of those products on one livewell while leaving the mirror image livewell as a control, then recorded water temperature and oxygen saturation level during the day?

I'd love to see that. It would probably turn out like the TPWD test with the Oxygenator......

OK, buy 2 PVC drain covers in the plumbing section of Home Depot for $6-$8, that works well too. I know what I have seen with my own eyes after they're installed. To each his own, I couldn't care less what others do or what doubts they have. And no, I don't need scientific data when I have used them myself and seen the difference they make.

James,
Thanks for that TP&W info!

So are people just assuming that when they turn a fish loose after weighin and it swims off that it is fine and will live a long happy life? These posts about how lively fish are in the livewell that imply that means no harm are interesting to me. I shot a deer this year and last I saw of him alive he was running full blast and looked really lively. Now, I found him 50 yards in the brush stone-cold dead, but hey, he sure was lively when he ran off.

Ok

so your saying July and August would be a good time for a fish fry

To my knowledge there are no studies that compare survival of black bass in 3-fish versus 5-fish limit tournament scenarios; I know black bass tournament-related literature fairly well. The organizations that use a 3-fish limit in the summer are just operating under the logic that fewer fish going through the process should equal fewer fish dead from initial and post-release mortality.

There are studies that have been done by TPW on the mortality rate of fish that occur within days of being released from a tournament. So your point of a fish making it to weigh-in alive and full of energy and dying later is valid. I haven't seen any study on 3 fish tournaments but one would have to assume that a similar percentage will die and thereby turning in a smaller bag would have a smaller die off as well as any benefit they might occur by less fish inside a livewell.

Has anyone ever had a tournament that was split where at the half way point they weigh the fish so that they can be released and then again at the end of the tourney and just cull the numbers to the best 5?

In the summer months, we go to a 3 fish format. I have no factual data to prove this, but I assure you there is less death loss in a 3 fish tournament versus 5. Here are my common sense reasons why:

1) The overall number of fish subjected to the tournament stress is less, therefore the overall number of dead fish is reduced.
2) There is only a limited amount of oxygen in an average fisherman's livewell (non-average meaning guys that have pure Oxygen systems installed), no matter if you run aerators all day or pump in new water all day. 3 fish will consume this amount at a slower pace than if 5 were in there. I'm not saying 5 would deplete the oxygen to the point to where they all died. I'm simply stating a low level of oxygen increases stress on fish. Have you ever been in an environment with low levels oxygen? It certainly effects your short term health.
3) I personally feel that more fish are culled throughout the day, reducing the chance of that fish you caught on your second cast being one you actually weigh in. On average, the final 3 fish you bring to the scales, will be "fresher" than if you were keeping 5.
4) We cut our summertime tournaments short. For example, our August 12th tournament is over at noon. I think because of the shorter tournaments, a 3 fish limits sounds more appealing to some guys than a 5 fish limit.

Bottom line is this, and it's a fact. Lowering the limit to 3 fish in the summer doesn't hurt. So until some very convincing research reveals otherwise, we will err on the side on conservation.

This ^^^ you don't need a "scientific study" to understand the basic math and common sense of the equation. They're easier on the fish period. No real reason to debate it further. Any trail deploying this format on behalf of conservation in the summer months is doing the right thing.

There's days all I can catch are three keepers and a ton of short fish. Johnny three fish days.

***Is this thread turning into a sea kitten thread?

AND there is also a significant difference to the SIZE of the fish that are trying to be kept. 5 small fish are easier to keep alive than 5 big fish. Trying to keep 25lbs of fish alive in the summer is a continuous chore. (Especially if they are caught in deep water.) There are so many variables! The primary idea that tournaments should consider is that MANY of the teams do NOT know how to take care of their fish. In that case, adjusting the tournament "controls" to help the anglers, by reducing the numbers of the fish that are stressed, is a Tournament Directors responsibility. You can tell teams to take care of their fish but many don't know what all to do, or even can be done. Fizzing, Ice, Oxygen, Chemicals are all things that can be used in the correct situations. BUT, many do not even care. Loose a check because of a dead fish and it won't take long to think differently and be more concerned. VERY CONCERNED!!! Personally I have upgraded to Pure Oxygen (as described in the TPWD Slide Show https://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/livewell-oxygen-injection-8773301 ) along with Ice to reduce the water temperature. (Colder water can hold MORE oxygen than Hot water). I have installed foam insulation under my lids to help retain the cooler temps. (IF you ice your water then you need to keep that cool air/water insulated, just like in a cooler.) I flush out my early morning water to remove the Fish Waste Amonia and replace it about 11:00 am and add Ice and Chemicals to cool the water. I take 2 liter bottles and mix with water & CHEMICAL and freeze them at home. Then poke holes in the bottles in the livewell to have a slow release of cold and chemical. Run the RECIRCULATE to keep all the Chemicals and Ice Temp water. Keep your big fish separated if you can, so they are not both/all "sucking" up the available oxygen in one tank/side. Remember if your nozzle is below the water level you won't get the benefit of the "spray splash ambient oxygenation" in recycle. Just MOVING the water is NOT AS beneficial as the spray. Be prepared to Fizz your fish, Even if you catch them shallow. I have seen many fish that still need to be fizzed. Get some Belly Clips (Or make them with small Curtain Clamps and small Catfish Weights). Use them along with everything else if needed. DO NOT over FIZZ. They will sink like a rock and look ok but die in the bottom. (1 Sec fizz per 1 lb of fish APPROXIMATELY.) Remember that ambient oxygen is all you will get with circulation/recirculation and that the saturation level of Oxygen is dependent on the Temperature.
( http://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/inland/livewells.phtml )
Some boats even have a COOLING REcirculating system installed.(Nitro KoolWell http://advancedangler.com/2013trackermarineraw/ewin-evers-nitro-livewell-cooling-system/ ) I built one in my old boat. I rerouted my recirculating line into a cooler with a copper coil, covered with Ice and drinks, and it would cool the recirculation water (in a closed system!) back into the livewell. They even have automatic ones now. Mine just used the Recirculation Timer. Personally I don't understand WHY some of the current Boat Manufacturers do not include this in their boat designes. Minimal Cost and still built into an existing cooler would not be that difficult. Could even be a SELLING POINT for Southern boat sales.

It all depends on how much you want to do to keep from loosing money in tournaments! If you are only catching "Peanut Whistles" then you don't have to worry as much. If you plan and hope to win some with big fish then you need to completely evaluate your system of fish care and to what extent you want to go. It can also depend on how hot it gets where you fish!

Commercial Cooling Systems:
KoolWell: http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/KoolWell_Livewell_Cooling_System/descpage-KWLIVCOOS.html
ProKool System: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtQL70fkVu0

Here are some of the TPWD Slideshows:
Oxygen Saturation: http://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/didyouknow/inland/livewells.phtml
Oxygen Systems in Boats: https://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/livewell-oxygen-injection-8773301
Oxygenator Effectiveness: https://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/the-oxygenator-how-effective-is-it
Hydrogen Peroxide Effectiveness: https://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/hydrogen-peroxide-for-bass-boat-livewells
Fizzing: https://www.slideshare.net/raminlandfish/myers-fizzing-san-angelo-2010

Great post Ron. Anyone arguing or disagreeing with that post is just trolling/doesn't know any better.

A lot of good stuff in here guys. Kudos to the folks who understood the question and provided real info that I didn't have access too. Especially the delayed mortality studies.
I was just interested in learning something I didn't know about. I should've known the word science and research would make a few break out in hives.

I always knew why tournament directors made the 3-fish decisions, error on the side of caution. Which is the responsible decision. I just wondered what/if there was studies supporting it. Because it undeniably changes the strategy of a tournament angler.