Active Target power issues

I finally received my active target and hooked it up according to the directions and the wiring diagram. Tied the yellow wires from the power cable on the FS 9 and the AT module together as instructed but the AT module does not power up when the FS unit is turned on. Anyone else have this problem. By the way the wiring diagram on page 26 of the installation guide has the positive and negative feeds labeled backwards.
Thanks

There is an update for the yellow wire issue. You can find the update on the list of updates under Active Target. This update is for the AT transducer and module not your unit. Follow the instructions on how to update.

Thank You Sir

That worked until I hit update and then the next screen is supposed to have the device to update but it is blank. The headers are there but there is no device to select can you help?

is the AT box powered up?

What he also means to ask is do you have active power available at the connector for the Active Target? The yellow wire can't make power appear magically if you have a switch on the boat turned off if said switch must be on for you to have +12V on the red wire. The fact that you don't see the AT listed probably means the FS9 isn't seeing it on the network, which leads us to asking if the module is actually powered up.

Yes it has power directly from the fuse block that is turned on at the master power switch. My understanding is that the yellow wire is like the on off switch. The AT box has power but no way to turn it on.

Not quite like that.
Yes, the yellow wire is a "trigger" or "wake up" wire, think like remote on/off switch. It's an output from your FS unit, and an input to the AT module. Anytime an MFD is on, it's yellow wire (output) has 12V on it. As an input, that 12V on the yellow wire will cause an accessory to power up if that accessory's red/black wires are connected to an active power source (your fuse block in this case).

Lowrance confirmed in videos produced by the company that the issue was/is as follows: When the MFD turns on, the yellow wire WILL turn on the AT module. However, ONCE IT IS ON, turning the voltage OFF on the yellow wire would not result in the AT module turning off. In other words, you could turn it ON, but there was no way to turn it OFF - unless you had a switch to interrupt the red power wire going to the AT module. So, your unit never powering up is NOT an indication of the software error that existed. That error is corrected in the AT module release 20.1-64.2.66 that occurred about 4/24/21.

When you say "the AT box has power" explain exactly how you have determined this. For instance: Look at the module to see what the indicator LEDs are doing. The "normal" state for the Power LED is to alternately blink amber and green. (If I recall correctly, solid green means booting, not "up and running".) The amber/green alternating indicates the unit booted and is operational. The Ethernet LED should be blinking on and off to indicate activity. I'm not familiar with the Elite FS, so must ask do you need to enable the hard wired Ethernet port? If that LED isn't blinking, your MFD isn't communicating with the AT module.

Thanks Flippin-Out. So the LED will light up even if the unit is not on? Everything in the boat is hooked up to a 12 socket fuse block that powered up by a master power switch. Everything else is working so the AT module should have power when I turn the master switch on. However if the LED's should light up when I turn on the master switch I must have a problem. Thanks for your help

The way I wrote it up may have confused you, and I probably didn't consider one other possible gotcha.

Yes, I think there's some gremlin. No, you shouldn't always have lit LEDs. In order for the AT to power up, three things must be true:
1) The AT power cable must have a connected Ground
2) The AT power cable must have connected and live +12V
3) The yellow wire of the AT power cable must have +12V (or there-abouts) on it. It would normally get this from the yellow wire coming out of the MFD.

I would agree you should have 12V on the AT power cable - assuming they are properly connected at that fuse block. Do you have a fuse block model that provides a Ground to go with each fuse? (That approach is less prone to Ground connection problems.) You might want to check for 12V between the fuse block screw for the red wire to the AT and the Gnd for the AT power cable just to be SURE you really do have power. Remember, you could have a bad fuse that might not LOOK blown, but doesn't have continuity. I'd say replace it as a test. If power out of the fuse block gets confirmed, then you have a "yellow wire issue" if the unit won't power up. That issue could be that the voltage level isn't getting from the FS unit to the AT unit (because of something like a bad crimp, for instance).

I don't know how you have the yellow wire connected as you haven't said. Mine are on terminal strips, so I can always access them. What you may need to do as a temporary diagnostic test is to jump the AT power cable yellow wire straight to 12V. If you have it all crimped into connected wire, I don't see much way around having to cut it. The yellow wire at the end of the AT module power cable can safely be connected to the same fuse block screw as the AT's red wire. This will not hurt anything, but the AT module will be on all the time when connected this way. Try this and get back to us.

Thanks Flippin-Out. So the LED will light up even if the unit is not on? Everything in the boat is hooked up to a 12 socket fuse block that powered up by a master power switch. Everything else is working so the AT module should have power when I turn the master switch on. However if the LED's should light up when I turn on the master switch I must have a problem. Thanks for your help

The yellow wire is soldered directly to the yellow wire from the FS 9. I'll go get some wire to make a jumper and try that. Thanks again

Not to assume but do you have the ethernet connected from the AT box to your FS ethernet port also?

Thanks so much Larry and Flippin out, I cut the yellow wire and installed a jumper and the AT module powered up and the FS 9 recognizes it. So do I install the new software and put the yellow wires back together or just keep the jumper in place?

Yes on the ethernet Thanks

The “new software” to correct the yellow power up/power down sequence isn’t out yet. Just keep it on a switch for now.

Then, I am now baffled on what the heck I downloaded from the Lowrance Active Target support page just five days ago! The filename I got was "ActiveTarget-20.1-64.2.66-Standard-1.riw". I even saw instructions on how to install it onto the AT module. Note I'm NOT confusing this with an update for the MFD as those are "upd" files. An riw file is something completely different - an accessory update file. I recall that release date listed as 4/24/21. As of right now, it has disappeared from the support page. I'm really OCD about managing update files, so I can't imagine I didn't really get the file from the proper page. I bet Lowrance pulled it back down. (Larry, can you comment?)

So, to answer Nitro's question: Yes, keep the yellow wire cut. You mentioned you have a master power switch for the electronics power system. You could put that yellow wire under the same screw as the (fused) red wire for the AT power cable. BUT...then you must realize that your master electronics power switch is what now determines when the AT module is powered on or not. I wouldn't think this to be a big issue; the module typically draws about 1 amp, so it's not going to kill any decent power system in a day of fishing. Just remember you MUST turn off that master switch when done fishing, or a dead battery may result.

Do the update then the Yellow wire will work as it is suppose to.

The file has not disappeared it was moved to Active Target from Transducers.

https://downloads.lowrance.com/software/index.html?r=4290

Here is the update that fixes the yellow wire, read the notes

OK, I missed it somehow.

Steve - keep up, ya' hear? ....the update IS available.

That said, I still have a switch for my AT (if I ever get the one on backorder). In addition to the yellow wire connection, I noted that I may not always want the AT module powered up. What if I'm fishing in a situation where I just don't need or want it? No need to burn power that could be useful for a livewell of 8# bass, lol. My "pre-wire" for the AT has the fused power allocated for the AT going through a dedicated on-off switch at the console. That way, I can use it as an over-ride to keep the AT off if I know I just don't need it, but I will be using the units at the bow in other ways.

The reason I ask about the jumper is that if we go that route the AT module will be powered up when I turn on master power even if I am not using AT. It would be preferable to have the FS 9 turn it on so it is only on when I am using AT. My FS 9 is dedicated to Active Target and won't be used for anything else. Thanks again guys for your help.

Sorry for the last post guys I just got the most recent posts when I posted that last comment. I will try the update and then put the wires back together if that doesn't work then I will use the jumper and put a separate switch in it for when I am not using AT. Thanks again for all your help. If I have success in the morning I'll let ya'll know

For your intention to have the FS9/AT in a dedicated use model, the yellow wire connected between the two should be exactly what you need. Just do the update first. BTW, soldering the wire is overkill, and actually not generally preferred in a high-vibration environment. Connect them temporarily (like with an alligator clip jumper wire) for a test after you do the AT module update. Confirming it works as you think it should is a good plan before doing a permanent connection. I suggest a solderless crimp butt connector (color code red for wire size).

I’m behind.

Bad news. I fired up the AT module using the jumper and successfully installed the software update. I powered down and reconnected the yellow wires and powered up the master switch. Turned on the FS 9 and the AT module did not power up. I am just going to install the jumper and put a switch on it so the AT module will be off unless I'm using active target. Thanks to everyone for their help.

Is there possibly a software update for the FS9? I didn't check; did you?

A question for you: You've established that the AT will power up if the yellow wire is connected to the red wire. When you remove the jumper between the two, does the AT power down? If so, that says the AT is working correctly, and also now "listens to" the yellow wire for instruction. If this is true, then the issue has now become the FS 9, which is why I ask if there is a software update for it.

When you did the update did you wait until the unit rebooted internally and said complete or something to that verbage. If this is the case update it again and follow the instructions. This internal reboot can take 3 min sometimes depending on the size of the update.

Here is a video that shows the exact steps and points out where you must wait for the reboot to complete in order for the update to be successful before you exit the process:

Youtube Video for Active Target Update

Yes I waited for the reboot which took a while. First it uploaded the software which was quick and the after a minute or two it started rebooting which took a while. Then it said reboot complete or something to that effect I'll check out the video Thanks

Thanks again guys. I got to spend yesterday on the water trying out the Active Target. I know I have a lot to learn but so far I am thrilled with the ease of operation and the detail. On several occasions I actually saw the fish take the bait. Also saw fish look at the bait and swim on. It seems to help immensely with suspended fish. Incredible, just one more arrow in the quiver.

You're making me miss mine that I haven't even gotten yet. When I installed new wiring for the latest electronics update, I positioned dedicated power and Ethernet cables for the intended module location. I wanted to make the effort to complete the installation minimal for the day the box shows up.

The issue is the FS power cable. Look at the end of the connector... only two copper connections are made into it- the yellow wire is not making connection here. If you use a power cable from a HDS live or Gen 3, the yellow wire will wake up the AT box as it should.

No, there is nothing wrong with the FS cable; it would be the install that is the issue. I took a power cable out of an Elite FS 9 box today to inspect it. On the cable I looked at, the yellow wire IS there. There is no need to "use a power cable from and HDS Live or Gen 3." The yellow wire is cut off flush with the outer sheath of the cable, but it is there. All one need do is carefully strip enough of that sheath to access the yellow conductor for connection to the Active Target.

Yes, the yellow wire IS there. Do a continuity test from the plug end to the other end of the yellow wire.

Good point. I'll check that today. That would be really weird to have it in the cord but not connected. That's wasted material cost that a factory wouldn't normally toss - they'd use a 2 conductor raw cable.

You didn't say (earlier) that Lowrance confirmed it, I don't believe.

Lol, I didn't believe it either. While on the phone with them I requested they get a FS power cable and inspect it while on the phone. And I told them the EXACT thing... waste of materials and misleading to customer's.

There are only two copper lugs built into the connector plug- one for power and ground- yellow wire has no continuity. Dang shame it took me several installs to figure it out.

I forgot you mentioned there were only two contact pins present. In that case, no meter check needed as you can't connect what doesn't have a contact in the connector housing. I'll bet they had a language goof in getting the FS to market - Mexico and/or China are generally involved, unfortunately.

Bingo. Hope this helps others from pulling any hair out.

They need to replace the inferior cables on demand from a customer. It won't do what it's advertised to do.

100% agree. It seems they prefer to keep telling people to install a switch to feed the yellow wire on the AT and that the next update will fix it- which we know is BS.
We just got our order of HDS live power cables today- calling any of our FS customers to make them aware of the issue.

Of all the units sold in Bass Pro and Cabela's I have heard of no customers with this issue must have be a very small batch that this happened to. While in those stores this weekend I looked at their inventory on the power cords and found nothing that is described on this post.

Larry, I have an Elite FS that I'm sure was "current stock" that definitely only has 2 contacts populated in the connector housing. I can see that this cable will never make an accessory work on the "trigger wire" signal because it will never get onto the cable. I can send you a photo if you need to see to believe.

As to a customer having an issue, that would only happen if the customer has an installation that includes an accessory they expect to be powered on and off by the display unit. Accessories for FS would likely be limited - such as Active Target or SonicHub. Unless they have such a configuration, they won't notice any issue. That could be why you haven't heard of problems.

if you look at the diagraph for wiring in the FS Manual it does not show a yellow wire for the unit power cord, you go to the AT module drawing in the manual and its their. The issue with the yellow wire not working was for the Active Image module and was software, not the FS so when a poster says its BS I looked into it. I have not confirmed with anyone on why the yellow wire does not show up on the drawing but I will.

Larry, it doesn't matter if the yellow wire is shown in a manual illustration or not. What matters is what is delivered in the box. I have all the pieces involved, all purchased in the last few months: Live 12, Elite FS, AND Active Target. I happen to be an actual engineer (not just with a title) with a lifelong career in product design. I'm well aware of the Active Target software issue; I was one of the ones bugging Lowrance to hurry up with the update (that is installed on my Active Target).

Yes, there's a yellow wire in the Elite FS raw cable used for the power cable - just like in the raw cable for the Live 12 power cable. However, on the cable that came with the Elite FS, (now pay attention here), the yellow wire is not connected to a contact in the connector plug that connects with the display unit's receptacle.

There are 10 possible contacts on the plug. The pattern for that plug is the same for both Live units and Elite FS units, but not all contacts are populated. On the power cable for the Live units, 8 of the 10 "pin positions" have contacts in them. Three of those would be +12, GND, and the yellow wire. On the power cable from the Elite FS box, only two "pin positions" are populated with contacts. Those two are required to be +12V and GND, or the unit would not power up. There is no other contact populated in the Elite FS power cable plug; therefore, the power cable as provided will never allow any display unit to turn any accessory on/off. You need at least 3 working contacts in the cable & connector to have power as well as control an accessory.

The attached photo of my Elite FS Power Cable is fuzzy, but it shows my point. In the photo, you can see two reflective gold dots in the connector pin array. Those are populated contacts that would be mandated for +12V and GND. The other eight are empty; there is no possible connection that can be made because no other contact is present (regardless of how many wires may be in the raw cable used) - there are just 8 empty holes that do nothing. THIS is why this cable will never be able to power an accessory on/off as should be possible. Do you understand yet?

Ya I got all that but we are talking about 2 different things so until I find out what its suppost to be this is just a do loop You demonstrate what the manual shows so I need to confirm if the FS is even suppose to have a yellow wire at all on the power cable.

I would "think" it should have had the yellow wire connected and operational because the Elite FS is stated as supporting Active Target (as opposed to "mostly" supporting Active Target). Apparently if you use a Live power cable, the Elite FS will turn the unit on/off like a user would expect it to do.

Exactly what I was gonna say. If the FS is supposed to be used with AT, it would have the provisions to actually control the mundane functions of POWERING UP THE UNIT. HAHA.

Elite FS Power Cord> At this time what you see is the correct configuration.. There is no Yellow wire on the FS. Its better to switch the yellow wire for on and off on the AT so at this time no yellow wire if they hear from customers that they want the wire to turn on and off then it could change. So to all that believe this is a mfg defect this corrects the record.

LMAO! Larry, that's an answer that matches the shortcoming that inadvertently occurred because someone had their head up their a** at the time product planning was working on the parts list of what went in the box. How convenient, but it is insulting to the intelligence of the customer.

So, by what you said, for customers who have a Live unit and Active Target, there's a general feature desire for the display to be able to turn the AT on and off. HOWEVER, if the customer happens to have an Elite FS unit instead, he/she suddenly has no urge to have the display unit be able to turn the AT on and off. Yeah, that just makes a world of sense!

What really happened is glaringly obvious, but you go right ahead and tell that with a straight face. I'm a big Lowrance user (with $20k+ of their gear on my 21' boat right now) but I'm not stupid.

Go back and look at the prior Elites Non of them have the yellow wire.

So what do they have to do with the price of eggs in China? They aren't on the Active Target supported model list. The Elite FS was released as supporting Active Target,so it's cable should have been designed to support power management for AT. The ball got dropped.

If the FS is advertised to run the AT, then it should with no modifications. Installing a switch on the yellow wire was Lowrance's way of working around the software update - need to turn the AT off to reduce battery drain and dry firing the transducer all day long. Besides, switch installation is an extra cost to the customer and an added point of resistance for wiring to fail.

Buying a properly pinned power cable makes for a cleaner install.

Larry, I had confirmed this with Lowrance , not a Lowrance Pro Staff. Thanks though