What a shame!!!

I can't believe there are already a bunch of people trying to hire guides for the state championship parents should be ashamed of themselves or boat captains or anyone else trying to cheat the kids that actually go out and look for their own fish and patterns.

Roberts has a small guide community and word gets around. Even names get around. If you are one of these thoughtless crooked cheats you will eventually get caught . If you are one of those that hasn't read the rules for the season shame on you to.

I wonder how many times this has been done on other lakes. Thank you to the honest guides of the Roberts community that came forward with this issue.

That"s as Bad as the boat captain at lake Whitney giving a kid a 4lb fish to weigh in and the boat captain won the side pot with one over
6 What are these boat captains really teaching the kids

Is it in the rules you can't hire guides? People hire guides all the time prior to tournaments. Not sure I see this as cheating? I have no kids in this, just not quite sure I understand your stance.

Cant hire guides 30 days(I believe) prior to tourney. No rule against hiring guides other than this.

No guides within thirty days.

If someone hires a guide within the rules I have no problem with it. But to hire one and try to cheat that's just wrong.

There have already been people caught cheating they need to run these people through the ringer.

I have seen everything under the sun being a boat captain on these tournaments. Between letting the kids get out of the boat and fish covered boat slips as the boat captain holds the boat at the dock. Seen people pre fishing after the 7 o clock hour,and witness a gentleman caught two fish in front of my kids about 30 yards away and yes he was a captain put them in the live well they high fived each other and left. Went to way in and seen the same gentleman but no fish, just the boy,crazy. This is a great thing for the kids,to keep there grades up and earn there right to fish this. Let's take the kids out and help them be great anglers and let them figure stuff out themselves with of course the captains input if they need it. They do that they are the true winners!

And yes that boy had 5 good fish

Did you report any of that to the tournament director?

hahaha Ive heard about this and also gotten phone calls personally although im not a licensed guide. Ray Roberts does have a very small guide community. Its sad to see grown adults willing to cheat for these highschool kids...

This high school fishing is getting interesting lol.

No I never did that is my fault, I wouldn't be able stand there and watch them kids get disqualified and see there faces because the boat captain is teaching them wrong. I guess I'm soft hearted, but cheating is cheating so I guess in a way I cheated my on kids for not saying anything.

In most tournaments it's against the rules to not report violations. Don't feel guilty about it.

Boater on non-boater draw is one way to prevent this, you put two people that know each other in a boat the temptation to cheat will always be there, even in a kids tourney.

nobody likes to admit it but in most tournaments where anything of value or fame there will be some that break the rules the big problem here is instead of grooming the right way it set a bad example for folks to see. it is really bad when they catch one out of the bunch that do it.

I know of two students who were seen with a guide 6 days prior to a tournament. They were reported but when asked they denied it. They finished in the top 5. I didn't report them but know the people that did, they were the same ones that witnessed them with a guide.

It's a shame this happens but unfortunately it's not a surprise. In reality, there's little about high school fishing that's fair. Many of the students are fishing with boat captains that do all of the work and are very familiar with the lakes. The students do little to zero planning. They just show up and fish where they are told and use what they are told. We have students who don't want their dad to buy a boat because they'd have to fish with their dad who knows little to nothing about fishing and they know they'd do much worse in a tournament. I tell my son when he gets in college I think it'll be a little more even playing field. Saying that, I also know of a few kids who do all the work and are very good at fishing. They do great every tournament and will do great in college fishing also.

I guess it's just part of the game and without the boat captains volunteering most kids wouldn't get to fish and doubt high school fishing would even exist. I can't imagine letting my son weigh in a fish I caught. I'd like to say I'm surprised but I'm not. It's no different than any other sport or anything else in life, some just want the easy way out.

are the captains allowed to fish during the T? that seems crazy to me, and would certainly invite temptation to share a fish.

Not during regionals and state

In the tournaments my guys fish.....there was a report of cheating.....they confessed....and weren't allowed to fish the tournaments the remainder of the year....then the report got to BASS.....it's possible, these kids may NEVER fish a BASS sanctioned event again.....

Always consequences to actions.

we will be placing the punishments in the rules for 2017/2018 real soon. Until they are finalized I will not post or comment but it will be more than a slap on the wrist, I promise.

....as it should be. The captain should be charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!!!

^^^^^THIS

There were two kids on a different team that fished with a guide 6 days prior to one of the tournaments. They were asked at weigh in but lied and said they had not fished with the guide. I talked to the boat captain that witnessed it and was neighbors with the guide and has known him for a very long time. The kids finished around 3rd I think. I didn't witness it myself but two kids in our club know them and saw them plus their boat captain informed me about it. I stayed out of it but it's a shane some people refuse to follow the rules. If I catch any of our members cheating they won't be in the club any more. The adults definitely know better and should show leadership to our youth.

In a instance like this please report to the Tournament director and we will investigate to find the truth. It might not be resolved right then but it would be resolved.

In support of Ken and what the TXHSBA is trying to promote please report this type of "violations" to them hopefully on the day so the tournament but at least soon after. I volunteer my time to captain two boys in the LISD (yes one is my son) and try to invest the time to show them the right way to fish tournaments including courtesy which is another issue with many boaters in today's world. If we allow this type of behavior to continue we are ruining the sport and our children's lives from promoting bad behavior.

For clarification of my post "promoting bad behavior" it is the behavior of the captains who are doing it that are promoting it not you guys

I would love to know who's idea it was to let captains fish during the regular season tournaments? I captained one tournament for my son and his co-angler and saw so many cheating dads I said this is the last one of these I will fish unless things change. WOW!!!

The temptation is too strong I suppose when old pops sticks a 5 pounder to toss it back in the lake where it belongs with that livewell sitting right there and his kid's reputation on the line. Really left me with a feeling of not wanting to be a part of this again.

I feel like you all need to decide if you want to make tournaments a competition or a way to get kids involved in fishing. They are very different paths and it appears that the solution for now is to try to do both at the same time. I think I would rather see kids not fish than learn how to cheat from their boat captain.

I've heard the argument about the challenge in finding captains if they can't fish all day. Maybe there will be fewer entries but at the end of the day the winner will be the winner.

First off.......not all captains that fish in the THSBA regular season tournaments are cheats...........and second, did you report all the "Cheating Dads" that you saw to the tournament directors???

More than likely the captains you saw fishing were entered in the 'Captains side Pot', which would explain him culling a smaller fish in the live well during the regular season tournaments. Aside from a couple of competitors that have been caught out of 600 plus teams, I'd say 99% of the participants are compliant to the rules. I've been captaining my son's team for 3 seasons and we haven't missed a tournament (this includes Regional & State for all 3), other than the occasional 'fishing too close' to each other or arguing over a spot, I haven't witnessed any of what is being mentioned. THSBA has been exemplary in regards to organizing & executing 23 tournaments across the state this Season, and that feat should be what is recognized.

Thank you Tim, Ken, Steve, Matt and ALL the Guys & Gals who make this happen.
Clint Yeager

I have captained for my kids and others when needed. I will fish but only to show them or help find a pattern. I try not to hook any fish but sometime it happens and they go back in water. I never inter the captains pot because I fill that it takes away a fish they could have caught. Most of my time is showing new ways to work there bait to help them and show them good fish practice when on water.

Just do away with the boat captains being allow to fish. this would solve a lot of the problems. there is only 5 regular tournaments a year (365 days) that gives you 360 days to show and team them how to fish..

+1

I'm not sure not allowing the captains to fish would resolve anything. If they are that big of cheaters that the boat captain would weigh in a fish they'd probably cheat anyways. I can't imagine weighing in a fish as a boat captain, says a lot about that person.

The boat captains need to make the kids do some of the research and work also. I'm making my son research a lake, pick out a spot to fish, explain why he wants to fish there, then we go try it out. Having a boat captain that is extremely familiar with a particular lake take two kids to his spots, tell them what rod and lures to use, doesn't teach them much about fishing. It's great they are taking their own time, boat, and money but it needs to be a little more about education than just trying to win. We have kids that place in the top and wouldn't have a clue as to where to fish or what to fish with. This has nothing to go with the tournament organizers, they do an outstanding job I think. This has to do with the local school clubs, people that oversee them, and the boat captains. I know this probably won't really change much but they won't have a boat captain telling them every single thing if they compete in college or elsewhere.

Again, I think the THSBA and others do a terriffic job. I know it's not an easy one and they can't control everything that others do. We have to control ourselves. They are doing an excellent job on their part, we have to do ours.

I'm not "sure" it would either, but it would make it easier to police and possibly reduce any temptation. And it definitely would resolve an accidental drop into the wrong box by a captain. I just see that there are plenty of opportunities for you to put your money on the line for competition against other fishermen any weekend of the year. Like you, I believe it should be about taking care of the kids from launch to weigh-in and education of those kids. So let them sling the baits for the day and the captain educates. My .02

I agree and definitely see your viewpoint also. It sure doesn't matter to me if the ban the captains from fishing and definitely wouldn't make me any less inclined to be a boat captain. It's pretty sad we are even having to discuss the topic of cheating, especially regarding the adults who are supposed to be mentoring the youth.

I agree, it's sad.

great...havent even reached this point in my child's lives and the sport is tainted? awesome.

I've been raising my 2 boys to fish, and we practice often, go over conditions, lure selections and why, etc. Makes me sick to think that anyone would network prior to the tourney, whether hiring a guide, consulting a guide to gain a competitive edge. Sounds like an MLF-like approach might work best. 2 days notice to get from wherever you are in the state to the ramp (and being fully aware of the commitment) when you sign up.

"Networking" is nothing new in bass fishing. Pros do it, weekend warriors do it, club guys do it - everyone networks.
The problem is that there is a time to do it and a time you can not - some people do not respect that rule.

Allowing boat captains to fish is the worst decision in the history of the sport.

Bullcrap.
Cheaters. Are. Going. To. Cheat.
You'll find that the majority of fishermen as a whole are honest to a fault.

I agree, those that are going to cheat will cheat. If a person is nice enough to volunteer to take the kids out fishing all day why not add a little something to benefit them. There's a hundred ways to cheat I'm sure, letting the boat captain fish isn't going to make a difference for the cheaters.

The idea that a captain being allowed to fish makes any difference to the cheaters is just ridiculous. As already stated, cheaters are going to cheat, and unfortunately there are a lot of worthless people in this world that dont feel the need to have to earn something.

There are also a lot of people that feel that they can protect kids from all possible evil and that eliminating every tiny possibility for making a bad decision is the only way to keep their little minds safe.

Interesting that some assumed I was referring to "cheating", when I said "Allowing boat captains to fish is the worst decision in the history of the sport".

I agree with what has been said, that only a very small % of boat captains might cheat.

There are so many other reasons/problems that are not good for the kids or the sport when captains.

Draw a line down the middle of a page. On the left side, write down all of the reasons boat captains should fish; on the right side, write down all the reasons boat captains should not fish. You run out of room on the right side of the paper.

You only run out of room if you write REALLY big.

you dont think that "maybe" these kids are learning new techniques and ways to fish by watching the boat captain. i still learn something everytime i fish with someone in my boat. why hinder their education by disallowing more "education". that seems pointless to do to a kid in school....

and if there are cheaters, hopefully karma or bubba will take care of them..

Are polygraphs not allowed in high school fishing?

polygraphs are given at HS tourneys. Usually 1st, a random and then to anyone who has been protested.

I'd be interested in what is written on the right side of your paper. I honestly can't think of but one reason to not fish if your a captain. (You'll catch a fish that your kids need)

Yes, please list a handful of the reasons from the right side. I can think of 2 - might catch the kids fish and might put a fish in the live well for the kids. Not even sure I could fill up the right side of a post-it.

I have some really small post-its..1/2"x1-1/2"

Tournament day is not the day for learning from a boat captain or teaching the kids how to catch fish. This is a kid's fishing tournament that hopefully is played on a level playing field.

It's about the kids!!!

Don't think anyone ever said it wasn't.
My 2 kids have been to state twice, a national championship and a world final. They learn something EVERY TIME they are in a boat. Doesn't matter if I'm fishing or not.
I've been involved with the THSBA since it's inception - it's always been about the kids.

And, some of these kids only get to fish during the tournaments. Logistics don't always work out for " teaching" lessons.

It's definitely not a "level playing field" in High School fishing but neither is any other high school sport. Some kids have boat captains that are basically pros on the local lake while some have never been on the lake before. Some kids could be with a pro and still not catch fish. There's way more to it than just catching fish and placing at the top though that's ultimately what we all want our kids we take fishing to do. Some will cheat, just like any other sport, but sooner or later in life they'll pay. It's also up to the majority that don't cheat to turn those in that do if we catch them.

This is our second year and we have over 22 Anglers and most have never fished out of a boat but love fishing. They are very excited to fish their 1st tournament ever this weekend on Livingston. The THSBA does a great job and I know they work their butts off to make it all happen. The rest of us need to do our part in making it successful and educating others who are doing something they shouldn't be doing. Many of our boat captains are new this year also and haven't fished tournaments.

Thanks for putting that out there. I don't think everyone understands that not every team is made up of kids and a boater that live in the same town. I drove an average of 150 miles each way last year to captain my guys, and those are the only times we're in the boat together. Ray Hubbard was 500 total miles and 12 hours of driving for me. So yes, the logistics dang sure doesn't always work out for teaching lessons.

I'm always working on helping my guys figure the bite out. If we're fishing soft plastics, I show them I have a fish on, shake it off, then tell them exactly what the bite feels like. I then back off and coach. Some of these high schoolers don't have a boat in the family, or anyone to take them at all. The only time they get to fish is these tournaments, so learning on the fly is the only way they'll get better. And my guys are definitely getting better, and I'm 100% sure they would not have gotten better if I hadn't been fishing and showing them new techniques. They've weighed some dang nice fish, an 8, and several 5-6 lbers the last 4 tournaments. They've also broke off a 10. They most likely would not have been able to do that if I hadn't been fishing.

Nice job mentoring these kids. It really takes great people to volunteer their time and to be the boat captain for these kids and to do it for strangers is even more special. All the frustrations are removed once they catch a fish, the smiles they have, then take it up to weigh in.

"I'm always working on helping my guys figure the bite out. If we're fishing soft plastics, I show them I have a fish on, shake it off, then tell them exactly what the bite feels like. I then back off and coach."

This is a glaring example why boat captains should never fish.

um, what?

X2...
You've been on here criticizing things but still haven't offered a single reaon from the right side if the list.
With 25 posts, you seem to be here to troll and bash HS fishing.

I love high school fishing. I have a problem with a small percentage of adults that are allowed to screw it up.

Poll the parents - ask them if they approve of the boat captain casting to find fish, shaking off fish and telling the kids to 'cast right there'.

tduck, if you want to make it personal toward me, ok.

"They most likely would not have been able to do that if I hadn't been fishing."

This type of "boat captianing" is absolutely unfair to every other team.

[quote=vtile]"They most likely would not have been able to do that if I hadn't been fishing."

This type of "boat captianing" is absolutely unfair to every other team.
A - it is nothing personal.
B- EVERY team out there has the same opportunity.
Bottom line is some captain's fish MUCH more and are better fishermen than others. The exact same thing applies to the kids. The two boys I captain fish 3-5 times a week by themselves. That comes from living in a rural area where there are ample locations for them to fish. They love to fish and have a desire to do well fishing these tournaments. And as good as they are, there are multiple teams as good or better than they are - just in their division.
When I started with these two I told them where and how to throw a LOT. Now, not so much but I still will tell them to work a particular piece of cover if they didn't hit it. That is my job - to teach them.

vtile, do you captain a high school team?

I'll try and be politically correct here.
You're obviously attacking me and that's ok.
I'll let you know I'm not in the "every ones a winner" club. There are winners and losers in the real world. If you think I'm not going to pass on my 40 years of bass fishing to my guys, who are ate up with bass fishing, you're mistaken. The goal of this is to offer young men a chance to learn bass fishing, and to compete. The goal is to win and learn. I do both for my guys. If you're upset, you should take the opportunity to teach your guys (that's assuming you captain a team) that life is full of wins and losses for everyone. Losses are good, they highlight your weaknesses and pinpoint where you need to work on things.

Would you be OK if a teacher in your kids classroom teaching them Calculus just gave the students a book and told them to read and research by themselves to learn Calculus to prepare themselves for college while the teacher sat at their desk on their cell phone? I doubt you would be happy with that teacher. Fishing is no different. If we just drive the boat out to an area of the lake and tell the kids to learn to fish they will learn some, but not very fast. Most of these kids are VERY inexperienced and need someone to teach them even the basics. Sometimes that can only be done effectively by putting a rod in the captains hands so he/she can show the kid how things are done. If you think just reading a magazine or the internet will really teach you how to truly find and pattern fish then you are wrong. Half of the articles written are just someone trying to find something to write about to get paid. The real learning occurs on the lake. A new fisherman, whether a kid or an adult, will learn much faster by being in the boat with and learning from someone who has more experience than them showing them how to find fish.

Bigfish - I apologize to you if I came across attacking you. I have zero animosity toward you or anyone, for that matter. Based on your dedication to the kids and the time you invest with/for them, I have great respect for you.

I have 60+ years of bass fishing, have a degree in education and taught for several years. I've won my share of tournaments and served as a Regional Director in the 70s for the Texas Association of Bass Clubs.

RKT, your Calculus example made me laugh. Thank you, I needed that. ***Your teacher takes the Calculus team to a Calculus tournament - your team got disqualified when the teacher went to their table and helped solve one of the test problems.

Folks, poll the parents on all of this. They are not going to agree with an experienced angler finding fish on tournament day with a rod and reel.

The Elite Anglers at BASS can no longer use a "coach". As a life member of BASS since the early 70s, I applaud them. It is the right thing to do, and a high percentage of the Elite Pros agree.

Of course if you poll the parents they aren't going to support captains fishing because the majority of them that would provide no advantage. Just like if you poll the parents whether a bigger stronger faster kid who's dad happens to play NFL football should be able to run the ball 30 times in Jr. Football all the parents of kids who are get run over would say it's unfair.

I view it the same as whoever posted above, there are winners and losers in real life, and all over real life someone has an advantage over you trying to get to the table first. I am ALL FOR helping out the ones that aren't as 'advantaged' and making everything fun for everyone competing, but the ones that are the best at it for whatever reason shouldn't be dumbed down so everyone else feels like they have a chance.

I just think it's really ok if you realize you aren't good enough at something to compete at a winning level. At that point either enjoy it for the sport, and applaud teams catching more and bigger fish or quit, and move onto something you're better at.

ps I don't know why i'm posting about high school bassing as I have 0 interest in it, just read the whole thing and it's the same pattern you see in every other deal with kids

I fail to see where the conversation about winning and losing, real life, stronger, faster, etc., etc.,....has anything to do with boat captains fishing during the tournament. We're giving two high school anglers an unfair advantage (this is not what my grandchildren are taught). Were giving the most experienced hs anglers an experienced boat captain to show the the right place to fish, what to throw, etc.

Provide a level playing field on the lake and let the best, fastest, tallest win. The weaker, inexperienced will grow and someday win, in a fair environment.

Ok. I'm still not following your logic here so please correct me if I'm wrong....

Your saying that if an captain that is experienced is partnered with kids that have some experience and the captain helps the kids then it is an unfair advantage?
If this IS what you are saying, I have no words......

That's how I read it also, Vtile. That happens in every single part of youth competition.

Somebodies dad played in the NFL, should he not be able to coach?
Somebodies mom majored in math in college, should she not help tutor homework?

If the distinction that is being made is the level of direct interference (i.e. cast right here, do this, do that) during competition I kind of understand, although there is no other way to do it. It's like a baseball parent telling his pitcher kid between innings how to throw to the batters coming up. Some kids sure do have a foot ahead and I believe that's perfectly ok.

At the end of the day, the kids that aren't as good either need to fish for the enjoyment of it (nothing wrong with that), learn and get better (if they want to pursue tournament fishing) or quit and do something they're better at and can compete in (nothing wrong with that either in recreation, I don't believe)

I think we have moved past the captain fishing at this point and onto the captain being in the boat????? The captain doesnt have to fish to tell the kids cast here, throw this, I have a secret brush pile over here. What does this "unfair" advantage have to do with the captains fishing?

As a side note, I have agreed not to fish this year in any of the tournaments. My son felt like they wanted to do it on their own this year, but he was asking me to fish last year. I think this decision should be left up to the people in the boat, not the ones on the sidelines.

I think I get it Vtile.

The kids that have worked hard at practicing casting, reading material online, and trying techniques their captains showed them on ponds, who have experienced captains willing to mentor them, should not have that advantage, right?

From what I read, you think that the many kids out there who are getting to fish and learn, on the water, from guys willing to share decades of hard knock experiences with them, shouldn't have that opportunity? It sounds like you want the many to give up learning something they love to do, and a great opportunity, all in the name of lowering their opportunities to the level of the few?

If you've been in bass fishing for 60 years, and held a position with the Texas Association of Bass Clubs, do you not know a single person with bass fishing experience willing to mentor your grand kids, or whoever it is you're concerned is disadvantaged? What about the guys in bass boats fishing against the guys in pontoon boats with no trolling motor? Or ski boats? That's a disadvantage too right? If we want to make it fair for all, I guess we could give them all cane poles, a can of worms, line them up on the bank and tell them in 8 hours we'll see who caught the most fish. THSBA is offering kids the tournament experience. Guess what, in all levels of tournaments, there are going to be people with better boats, electronics, tackle, you name it. I applaud all the guys who are getting kids on the water in whatever they can find. THSBA is changing lives with this. Don't punish success in an effort to bring things to a middle. Bring the bottom up, whether that's getting on the horn and helping these kids find a more experienced captain. Have you ever thought about contacting BASS at the Texas Level? How about local bass clubs? College Bass Teams?

And, I'm going to have to get you to show me where BASS made a rule that the Elites couldn't have coaches. I'm not sure what to say about that.

Not sure of why all of the 'noise'. I have one simple platform - take the rod and reel out of the boat captain's hand on tournament day.

Check BASS newest rules; Elite Anglers are no longer allowed to seek or accept any information on lakes they are going to fish.

Yes, but your reasoning seems to be to take the rod out of their hands so that they don't help the anglers. But not having a rod in the captains hand is not going to stop a captain from going to a spot he know has fish, or telling the kids what and where to cast.

Maybe you should put your request to the THSBA directors? Bickering about it on a forum doesn't accomplish much.

And no info rules are not even close to "no coach" rules. No info rules have been in place for a long time. They just made them more stringent for the 2018 season.

Regarding rules. THSBA has rules. I follow them and will continue to follow them until they change.

I have put it in front of the directors...here.

You are spot on Shallow; help them, but not with a rod and reel.

+1

Crickets???

I captain for my sons school and have volunteered to take kids I didn't know, twice to lakes I've never fished.
I usually fish about 20-30 min out of the 8 hr day, sometimes more, sometimes less.

What the guy whining about captains fishing is forgetting is.....without captains, you have no THSBA.
The regionals and state tournaments are the longest days I've ever had on the water because I couldn't fish, but those were the rules and we abided by them (my tackle storage got organized like it never had before LOL)
Most of y'all have it just as bad as I do and if I'm going to be on the water, I want to be fishing.
I don't think I could be a captain if we were not allowed to fish the regular events.

We just came off a lake that I suck on and my boys caught fish on. I also know some of my close friends that are sticks on that lake that zeroed with their teams, so it is what it is....you still have to catch fish

As far as cheating, there are sorry people in every thing we do...shame on any adult that teaches these kids anything but the right way to enjoy the sport of fishing
I also have taught my boys how to be courteous to others fishing by simple things like not cutting off folks working down a bank, not running up on folks on plane, how not to be "that clown" at the boat ramp that acts like he's never launched a boat, etc
To me, it's much more about talking and teaching boys about life than fishing, but none of this would be possible without captains volunteering their time, money and equipment for the kids

Why do you call it whining? I have my opinion, you have yours. We will agree to disagree.

"I don't think I could be a captain if we were not allowed to fish the regular events" - It's only a matter of time that boat captains will be allowed to fish during tournaments. We're going to miss you.

Pretty obvious the importance of boat captains.

Everyone has their opinion on how things should be run or handled, etc. and although I may not agree with someone’s opinion, I certainly respect them for havin one. In the five years since myself and 4 others created the THSBA and the countless hours volunteering my own personal time helping oversee the THSBA, we have tried looking at all angles, constantly having to be proactive instead of reactive. Things are not perfect, but they do run pretty smooth considering the sheer size and how quick we have grown.

As far as the boat captains being allowed to fish, let me just say we (the board of the THSBA) have had many conversations and debates regarding this topic. As someone said earlier, without captains, the whole high school fishing thing doesn’t happen. It is hard enough to find captains without not letting them fish. Heck, just look at all the posts each week from folks looking for captains. I captain for some kids (not my kids mind you) in the East Division. I rarely fish, but when I do it is because the kids are needing some help figuring things out.

In our opinion, giving captains the option to fish with their team allows them to be able to teach and educate the students on the water. Not everyone gets to go out and practice, so tournament days are sometimes the only time the teams and captains are together. I personally learned more in college during labs when it was hands on rather than sitting through a boring lecture. In my opinion this is the exact same thing. I’m not saying I am right, it is just my opinion.

Does it promote cheating?? I don’t think so. Cheaters are going to cheat no matter what rules or regulations a tournament organization has in place. Those folks are just scumbags, plain and simple. And somehow, we usually find out about it and those teams and captains are immediately kicked out for good. We certainly address those with stern and stout punishment when we can 100% prove that a Team has cheated.

Letting captains fish is not going to change. Some may not like it and that’s cool. Like I said, I respect everyone’s right to an opinion. And as long as I am able to serve on the board of the THSBA, my vote will always be to let the captains fish.

Huh......you're still here?
I'm assuming that you do not captain a team, as you didn't answer my previous question. If you look on the forum you will find that there are a couple of teams in need of a captain, why don't you be productive and volunteer at the captain's level and leave policy to those that know what they're doing. By the way, I am volunteering this Saturday for a team that is outside of my son's division for a couple of young men with limited large reservoir experience. Rest assured that I will enter the captain's pot, and teach them everything that I know during the tournament. I look forward to your comments to follow, it makes for good bathroom reading.

Ken,

It won't be this year, probably not next year, but it will happen. You know in your heart that what some boat captains are doing to assist their two high school students, is wrong. We all do. Take the rod and reel out of their hands on tournament days. It's the right thing to do.

Phsshhh.........guess where I'm sitting while reading this.

Despite being asked - repeatedly - you have still not come up with a single concrete answer as to how captain's fishing is giving someone an edge over others who have the exact same opportunity.
To be honest, you sound like a child that can't make the team and wants the rules changed and the bar lowered so that you can compete. I may be totally wrong....i hope I am.
I may get kicked for this but I believe the FLW HS circuit has the rules your looking for in place, perhaps that may be an avenue you should follow?

duc...no answers needed from my desk; boat captains that are providing inappropriate guiding during tournaments have verbalized those "answers" in this series of posts. People are shaking their heads in disbelief that these boat captains feel they are doing what's right by these kids.

The board is part of the good-ol-boy network of bass fishing. Not a good thing.

Parents, be sure and keep up with Get's posts; this is the kind of boat captain you want your teenagers spending time with. Not.

Again, I've been involved in competitive kids programs for a long time. I have yet to have ONE parent ever come up to me and tell me - " hey, if appreciate it of you'd keep all of your knowledge about ( insert activity here) to yourself because I want little Bobby to struggle, get down-hearted, have no success and just figure it out on his own". Not ONE parent.
You are the only one I've ever heard say that the kids should just figure it out themselves...
And if something happens and I can't get my two monkeys on the water - I'd have no problem with "the net" carrying them out.

I just don't see how taking the rods out of the captains hands keeps them from acting like a guide.

[quote=vtile]duc...no answers needed from my desk; boat captains that are providing inappropriate guiding during tournaments have verbalized those "answers" in this series of posts. People are shaking their heads in disbelief that these boat captains feel they are doing what's right by these kids.

The board is part of the good-ol-boy network of bass fishing. Not a good thing.

Parents, be sure and keep up with Get's posts; this is the kind of boat captain you want your teenagers spending time with. Not

All that know me would never question my character. I doubt that any that read this thread would question it. Now, there are still kids that are looking for a volunteer. Do you have the character to mentor a teenager, or will you continue to bad mouth those that do? This will be my last response to you as I have to get up at 2:45am to pick my anglers up and fish a tournament ran by great volunteers.
But before I leave, I'll give you one more chance to guess where I was when reading your post.

It’s a sport, like any sport and life in general, it isn’t always fair. It’s easy to get frustrated and my son and I are no different. We have parents with boats but they don’t take their own kids out fishing the tournament series because they find it much easier to find a very experienced boat captain to do all the work for them and make their kid look good. This is the part I hate but it’s just part of the “give me everything” and I don’t want to do any of the work generation. I’d rather take my son out to fish and spend time with him and we both learn than have better results with someone more experienced just for the sake of better results.

As far as boat captains fishing it’s like everything else, just a matter of opinion. While most of us, including myself, probably take it a little too serious it’s really about way more than just fishing in high school. For many they’ve never fished out of a boat and it’s their first tournament. It gets them involved in somethimg great and that’s really what it’s about. 99% of the boat captains are great people that step up and do great things for our youth. We had a kid that needed a boat captain last minute yesterday for today’s tournament and the fishing community stepped up and a total stranger volunteered.

Boat captains should NOT fish during a tourney. They can coach with there eyes, ears, and mouth. They may fish with the kids during practice fishing.

That's how I'd lie to see it.

Boat captains should NOT fish during a tourney. They can coach with there eyes, ears, and mouth. They may fish with the kids during practice fishing.

That's how I'd lie to see it.

I’m fine with that, I always contribute my $20 but rarely fish. I’m all for getting the kids out fishing but it’s just so far from being fair but it’s like most everything else in life. I’m not whining or complaining, just stating a fact. I just hate it when I keep hearing “why would I want my parents to get a boat then I wouldn’t do good” or the parents telling me they have a boat but it’s much easier to have a total stranger that’s much better do it. I tell my son figure it out, I won’t be there in college and having it spoon fed wont teach you much.

JMO:

I can see it from both sides of the discussion. Knowing how quickly a teen can loose confidence in fishing if they're not catching I could certainly see the need for a Captain to stick a fish to boost boat morale. Teens with low confidence on a boat makes for a long day on the water. Guides do it for the same reason a Captain does it...get the motivation back up. I do it with friends I take fishing who haven't been out much. If I take a bud out to the lake I rarely fish unless they're just not getting bit and I see their confidence drop then I'll stick a fish and they're back at it.

Could a Captain cheat? Yeah. Could kids lose confidence if not shown the fish are there? Yeah. In the end you need to weed out the "bad" Captains. If you see a Captain cheat then let the Tournament Director know. If you choose not to do so because you don't want to hurt the kids then what are you doing allowing the kids learn that cheating pays?

Doing a little research, state by state, on Boat Captain rules; here is the first - Alabama

Alabama B.A.S.S. Nation High School Team Trail
2017 Boat Captain Rules (note changes)

During Official Practice* Boat Captains MAY:

Instruct or coach the anglers
Give advice
Teach by example
Fish
Run the trolling motor**
Land fish with or without a net
During Competition Boat Captains May:

Instruct or coach the anglers
Give advice (send in plays
3. Verbally explain techniques, how to…….
Boat Captains MAY NOT:

MAY NOT Fish or Net Fish
MAY NOT Teach by example
MAY NOT Tie knots
MAY NOT Handle fishing tackle during Official Tournament Hours
MAY NOT Handle fishing rods/reels during Official Tournament Hours
MAY NOT Operate the trolling motor

Illinois

26. Coaching: The captain or coach of the boat is
allowed to talk to the participants, but cannot fish in
any respect. Coaches may net fish.

Dude - really. Go play with them then.

The rules have been set, it has been explained to you and you've been told it's not going to change.
As I told you before, I'm out of this discussion. My grandma told me arguing with fools was a waste of time.

Central PA Bassin

 Adult Boat captains are prohibited from
fishing. Advice, netting fish and fish care is
allowed.

KHSAA - Kentucky High School Athletic Association

b) The captain of the boat is allowed to talk to the participants
and may make suggestions but may not fi sh in any respect,
including tying lures and handling fi sh or gear. Please note
exception in Subsection E for captain’s ability to help net fi sh
if only one student is in the boat

G.H.S.F. - Georgia High School Fishing

- Boat captains cannot fish but can drive the trolling motor, net, cull, weigh fish, etc.

I don't know why this is so much of a issue with you. You may post all you want to about other states. It seems like something has happened to you or someone you know where having boat captains fish put them at a disadvantage. My one and only comment on this is the following.
The THSBA will always allow boat captains to fish in the open events, if this is a issue(which obviously it is)then its simple don't fish. For someone that does not participate in the HS fishing program you sure do like to gripe a lot about it. Do yourself a favor and go take some kids out instead of sitting behind a computer with a made up screen name and make a difference in their life's. You said something about having all these years experience of fishing, put it to use and step up. If not we will just continue to sit here and read these ridiculous post of yours.

I will not be commenting anymore , so you can just continue to post your stats and research, but you will not change our minds.
Remember we are all just made up of the " good ole boy Bass network" ..... lol.

Have a wonderful day

There is much more out there. To be fair, virtually all Texas associations to all boaters to fish. National associations do not allow boaters to fish.

It will change...it is a matter of time. Simple reason - over time, the integrity of the sport will simply not allow it.

Ken,

Careful...you are in a leadership position. Rather than respond in a professional manner, you are stooping to Duck's insulting way of communication.

It is a issue with me because of my love of the sport, my support of youth and my belief of fairness.

"The THSBA will always allow boat captains to fish in the open events" - yes, until the rule is changed.

Wow....I got up at 2:45am to take some HS kids fishing in a tournament, along with hundreds of other captains and tournament officials. I see you got up this morning and did an internet search. Let's take a pole and see who's time was better spent. I know I said that my previous post was my last, but your ignorance beckons one last response.
Those who have but an opinion to offer, really have nothing to offer at all.
Again, I'll wait for your reply as I previously stated, "it makes for good bathroom reading".

Many of us do a lot to help the sport of bass fishing and to help kids. We just don't stand on our post-box, pat ourselves on the back, and tell all how much we do.