Texas Fishing Forum

Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files

Posted By: J-Moe

Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 03:04 PM

The common conception is that big bass like big bait. So in an attempt to catch bigger bass I'm always looking for a bigger pattern. I use an 8 weight rod. I have tried the rabbit hair craw fish and large layered feather bait fish patterns but they absorb so much water and become extremely heavy. I tried a couple of the synthetic patterns. The patterns I tried had very poor action in the water.

What are your favorite materials and/or ties that possess a large profile, are light and have good action in the water?
Posted By: moonriver

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 03:55 PM

oh oh, you are asking for trouble, my dear friend. Get your wallet ready! grin
Posted By: moonriver

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 03:58 PM

For my big articulated streamers, I like to use large Palmer chenille, which gives my lures a large profile, and still light when wet.

I am not an expert, would like to learn as well.
Posted By: rrhyne56

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 04:55 PM

Spinner skirts can work well. The Calcasieu Pig Boat is a fine pattern for chuck and duck fly fishing.
Posted By: rrhyne56

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 05:00 PM

Oh, and Flyfishingtheozarks has some tandem patterns that ought to work for big bass as well as fat trouts.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 05:27 PM

I did tie Mike's articulated pattern once with a medium palmer chenille so maybe I can exeriment with that larger style. My wallet stays open unfortunately!!

I never saw these flies before rrhyne56. That Calcasieu Pig is something that really interests me. Can be used like a jig or add a spinner. And plenty of silly legs!! Since I grew up in Lake Arthur and Cameron, La. it has special interest to me.

Thanks for the input!!!
Posted By: wwest

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 07:27 PM

Addicted to the thrill of a top water take, I like the BIG spun deer hair and foam flies. BIG poppers, divers and Chernobyl ants have served me well. My best big fish were caught with a substantial "plop" onto the water, a few 1" pops and then just let the feathers and/or legs do their thing with only the slightest action added to keep them moving. Making an adult sized popper out of caulk saver (Lowes, Home Depot) is fast and easy to tie and positively deadly on the big boys. Interesting - bluegill like to torment the big Chernobyl ants...grabbing it's legs, pulling it under, etc. but they can't get it into their mouths. This seems to especially draw the attention of the bigger bass who move it to take it away from them. Fun to watch while waiting for the big guy to show up. cool
Posted By: moonriver

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/07/15 07:56 PM

I watched his video, and learned to tie his style, using different hooks.

Originally Posted by rrhyne56
Oh, and Flyfishingtheozarks has some tandem patterns that ought to work for big bass as well as fat trouts.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/08/15 01:39 AM

Originally Posted By: wwest
Addicted to the thrill of a top water take, I like the BIG spun deer hair and foam flies. BIG poppers, divers and Chernobyl ants have served me well. My best big fish were caught with a substantial "plop" onto the water, a few 1" pops and then just let the feathers and/or legs do their thing with only the slightest action added to keep them moving. Making an adult sized popper out of caulk saver (Lowes, Home Depot) is fast and easy to tie and positively deadly on the big boys. Interesting - bluegill like to torment the big Chernobyl ants...grabbing it's legs, pulling it under, etc. but they can't get it into their mouths. This seems to especially draw the attention of the bigger bass who move it to take it away from them. Fun to watch while waiting for the big guy to show up. cool


Agree Wwest. The top water bite has been dead for the last couple of months though. I caught 2 bass over 20.5 inches in September on Hook-Line&Sinker's Easy Froggy fly pattern. Hopefully the top water bite will pick back up soon. I sure miss it.

Good story by the way!!!
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/08/15 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by moonriver
I watched his video, and learned to tie his style, using different hooks.

Originally Posted by rrhyne56
Oh, and Flyfishingtheozarks has some tandem patterns that ought to work for big bass as well as fat trouts.


The rabbit hair will add a lot of weight though. That's what I'm looking to avoid.
Posted By: moonriver

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/08/15 02:22 AM

Agree. I didnt use rabbit hairs. I used hackle feather, palmer chenille and dubbings.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/08/15 02:37 AM

Originally Posted By: moonriver
Agree. I didnt use rabbit hairs. I used hackle feather, palmer chenille and dubbings.


Cool!!!
Posted By: mickfly

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/08/15 10:28 AM

Rabbit looks great in the water, but does get heavy, so for bass, pike, muskie and other fish that like big flies, stick with synthetics and bucktail, since they don't absorb water. They're are lots of synthetics to choose from. It's also possible to use a few long hackle feathers without adding much weight.
Posted By: Jim Ford

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/09/15 12:21 AM

Day in and day out, you'll catch more big bass getting your flies below the surface. Surface flies are certainly fun, but for me BIG bass are more fun.... Or at least they were, when I still did a lot of bass fishing. Rabbit strips and craft fur are the two materials I've come to rely on for action. I use those two in 99% of the flies I tie, and the craft fur gets the most use. It has a wicked action. Of the different brands I've tried I like the Rumpf best; I get it at Bass Pro Shops and I think I have gotten it from Cabelas through mail order.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/09/15 03:28 AM

Thanks Mickfly!!

Thanks Jim, I do see the benefit of rabbit hair. I just need to size it down for my 8 weight. The particular fly I tied was a crawfish pattern with 2 rabbit hair zonker strips as claws and a palmered rabbit hair body. It was tied on a 2/0 hook. So I need to downsize the pattern, replace certain portions with an alternate material or possibly use a different fur. I read that the more shine and stiffness a fur possesses the less water it will absorb. So maybe something like arctic fox would be a good alternative for the pattern.
Posted By: Jim Ford

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/09/15 01:22 PM

I've heard good things about arctic fox, but I've never tried it. I use rabbit on some of the saltwater flies I tie for the 2 weight; that rig needs a LIGHT fly to be able to cast it at all. I split the rabbit skin into very thin strips; it doesn't absorb so much water and still has a killer action. You might try that and see how it works. Use a razor blade or a very sharp knife, and work carefully.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/09/15 03:25 PM

Great information, thanks Jim!!
Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/09/15 03:26 PM

EP Fiber (I use Congo Hair, less $$) with a Hollow Tie method. Bulk without the material.

Still too heavy, thin it out with thinning shears.
Posted By: TXFlyGeek

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 03:10 PM

It really depends on what you're trying to imitate. Big bass have been around the block -- they're familiar with that forage base in their environment -- so should you be.

For adding getting the right profile on flies, bucktail is really hard to beat. You can easily layer several different colors of bucktail to get the exact profile and coloration you're looking for. Shad are a favorite bass food, but they're not just gray and white -- there are lots of other smaller sections of color present as well -- yellows, pinks, lavenders, etc. I typically add flash and saddle hackles for movement also (like the old school flatwing striper flies) -- it's important to get that movement right, I think. That's why I so rarely use EP by itself for my bass flies -- it keeps a nice profile but hardly moves!

There's lots of other materials you can use for getting nice movement in your flies. Craft fur, marabou, zonkers, saddle hackle, etc.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 04:45 PM

Originally Posted By: TXFlyGeek
It really depends on what you're trying to imitate. Big bass have been around the block -- they're familiar with that forage base in their environment -- so should you be.

For adding getting the right profile on flies, bucktail is really hard to beat. You can easily layer several different colors of bucktail to get the exact profile and coloration you're looking for. Shad are a favorite bass food, but they're not just gray and white -- there are lots of other smaller sections of color present as well -- yellows, pinks, lavenders, etc. I typically add flash and saddle hackles for movement also (like the old school flatwing striper flies) -- it's important to get that movement right, I think. That's why I so rarely use EP by itself for my bass flies -- it keeps a nice profile but hardly moves!

There's lots of other materials you can use for getting nice movement in your flies. Craft fur, marabou, zonkers, saddle hackle, etc.


Great post!!! That was my problem with the EP fibers; the movement in the water was poor. So combining it with other materials is a great solution.

Are there any synthetic materials that provide the type of movement that marabou or rabbit fur does?
Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 05:11 PM

Just wanted to let ya'll know, bass lures don't need to pulse. Look at the selection of conventional bass lures....metal spoons, hard crankbaits with 3-4" long plastic bills thicker than my windshield, jerkbaits with 6 hooks dangling unhidden off the bait, ect, ect. Only thing that might pulse would be a spinnerbait skirt or a jig. Rest of the baits are hard...and they catch plenty of bass....last I checked. smile

Bass fishing is mainly location, location, location. IMO.

Bass aren't like trout. They feed very differently.
Posted By: TXFlyGeek

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 06:21 PM


Originally Posted By: J-Moe

Are there any synthetic materials that provide the type of movement that marabou or rabbit fur does?


Craft Fur, Polar Fiber, etc. I'm sure there's other's I'm forgetting about.

Originally Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan
Just wanted to let ya'll know, bass lures don't need to pulse. Look at the selection of conventional bass lures....metal spoons, hard crankbaits with 3-4" long plastic bills thicker than my windshield, jerkbaits with 6 hooks dangling unhidden off the bait, ect, ect. Only thing that might pulse would be a spinnerbait skirt or a jig. Rest of the baits are hard...and they catch plenty of bass....last I checked. smile

Bass fishing is mainly location, location, location. IMO.

Bass aren't like trout. They feed very differently.


I think you missed my point -- I never said anything about "pulsing."

Every example of a conventional bait you mention has a specific movement action. Cranks and Jerks have a plastic bill which displaces water and gives them that wobbling motion. Spoons are basically a piece of metal that provide resistance in the water and flutter through the column. Fish aren't attracted as much to the "pulsing" of a spinnerbait -- it's the blades. These and other conventional lures work because of their action. Take that away, and you'll catch drastically less fish.

The same concepts apply to flies, we're just "building" action with different materials, which is what I was talking about. The end goal is to create something with the right color, action, profile etc. Baitfish swim. There's a ton of ways to create a swimming "action" in a fly as it's retrieved, one of those is selecting materials that create a swimming motion when retrieved. EP doesn't do that well with it, which I why I choose to use other materials on the rear of my flies. It does great at creating a realistic profile and bulking up enough to push water, so I do use it sometimes to build bulk in the front. Johnny King's Kinky Muddler is a good example of the concept.

And of course location is important. And obviously bass aren't trout. But that's not really the point of this thread.
Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 06:35 PM

Sorry, movement. smile

Bass don't see like trout. First off most of the water they are in is not gin clear like the rivers (exception is Amistad). So their site is very limited. In those stained/muddy types of water they feed off their lateral line more often than site. The pulsing/vibrations (even sound) alerts them to the presence of bait.

They will react to reaction baits and movement like a cat and mouse. I know trout will get reaction bites, but they are far more selective to everything. Sorry I brought up trout, people often carry their thoughts from trout into other species when discussing fly fishing/fly tying.

I fished bass tournaments for many years across the state and country....never with any feathers or rabbit belly. smile Just trying to give a little insight to the ways of the bass. They are not the brightest cookie in the jar. smile

Now back to Rabbit strips and feathers. smile

Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 08:19 PM

Thanks TXFLYGeek and Bass_Bustin_Texan!!!

Good discussion. I do fish several ponds that are crystal clear and shallow. So that provides some additional insight into my fly selection in these type of ponds versus the muddy ponds I fish.
Posted By: TXFlyGeek

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/10/15 10:57 PM

Truth. You have to find what works for you. I find the bass I fish for behaving very differently than as described above by Bass_Busting_Texan. And my comments were more geared towards targeting trophy-sized bass on a fly rod. Bass may not be the "brightest cookie in the jar" but trophy bass are smart -- otherwise they wouldn't get to be that size. The whole point of this is finding what works on the fish you target -- get to know your local body of water's forage base and go from there. That's typically a safe place to start.
Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/11/15 01:43 AM

What is a Trophy Bass? Just curious?

I agree Trophy Bass do get big for a reason, but like that ole Whiley Big Buck, they make mistakes. Got to be where they like, and be there when they wine and dine. Less fishing pressure does help. wink

We need to hook up and you need to make a trip up to East Texas. Too many lakes and too many big bass and too little time(right now is prime for a TOAD).
And no fly fisherman in sight! smile Lets go target them. I'm all about that Bass and no Treble now days.


banana
Posted By: TXFlyGeek

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/11/15 03:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan
What is a Trophy Bass? Just curious?

I agree Trophy Bass do get big for a reason, but like that ole Whiley Big Buck, they make mistakes. Got to be where they like, and be there when they wine and dine. Less fishing pressure does help. wink

We need to hook up and you need to make a trip up to East Texas. Too many lakes and too many big bass and too little time(right now is prime for a TOAD).
And no fly fisherman in sight! smile Lets go target them. I'm all about that Bass and no Treble now days.


banana


I think the term "trophy" really depends on the water. I fish a variety of settings in the Hill Country -- a 2 lb. bass is a "trophy" in some of them -- especially a 2 lb Guad. For the bigger rivers that I fish, like the Lower Colorado, I'd say a 5 lb. largemouth is a trophy, as is a >2 lb Guadalupe Bass.

That's what I was saying you really just have to find what works in your neck of the woods. I grew up fishing waters in East Texas and will agree with you that the bass over there can be dumb as a doornail.

However, the bass I target now in the clear streams of the Hill Country are no slouches, especially in places like the Llano and the Colorado. They definitely act differently than even the lake fish around here. You make a good point about being there when they are, which usually ends up being in the mornings or evenings.
Posted By: Bass_Bustin_Texan

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/11/15 03:48 PM

Oh yeah, much different than around here. My favorite lake is clear up here and fish can be selective on certain days, but it's a lake with a lot of grass and plenty of other places to run the boat and try a different school of fish if you can't get one school to fire up...just keep moving until the active school is located. Miles of underwater hydrilla lines out to 20' of water. 8-9 weights come out to play. smile Next time your in my neck of the woods holler and we can wet a line.

I'll trade you a trip for a trip! I don't get down there to the Hill Country enough.

thumb
Posted By: chefmike

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/14/15 04:22 PM

Another great material for tails and wings on larger bass flies is a mixture of marabou and ostrich herl. The ostrich has a lovely movement in the water and of course is light in weight

Mike
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/14/15 11:05 PM

Thanks Mike, I will check it out.
Posted By: osedma

Re: Discussion on Materials for Big Bass Files - 02/20/15 04:26 AM

Anyone using/making tube flies for bass?
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