Texas Fishing Forum

request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons

Posted By: KEGracing

request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/17/21 05:10 PM

OK, for the GURU's out there, I have another request. Help my learning curve please...

Chris, your "General Guidelines" for wind and weather was really cool. Made good sense.

How about putting something like this together for Water Temperatures and Seasonal changes.

Lakes are mixing and cooling off finally. Looking forward to fall and winter as many of you are, but trying to chase the changes and keep everything aligned is a big part of the learning curve. Helps to have a general target area to start in... know they will not always be there as the fish are not too good at reading and following our plans, but at least we start with an idea... then adjust as we must!

Looking for water temps to depth patterns specifically (I think?), but also depth to layouts - cuts, cliffs, flats, channels, etc.

Then again in the spring, as things warm up. Summer patterns, etc.

Would love to hear from you guys - everyone chime in as always, etc. I am going to be traveling a lot over the next few weeks, and will have more time to study my lake maps than actually get out on the lake. Want to have some plans ready to try when I get back in the boat.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone! Early, but I am hungry! LOL


Ken
Posted By: 🍀El Gato Azul🍀

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/17/21 06:53 PM

We’ll that’s the million dollar question Ken and one that is not easily answered. There are so many factors that go into that equation and I certainly haven’t figured out the algorithm! The fall transition usually means I gotta search more for good groups of fish. I’ve been up in 5 ft and out to 35 ft this fall and the fish haven’t been where I thought they should be one time. Not once! I’ve been grinding to locate good groups of fish with side image sonar and some days it takes me 1.5 hrs before I see what I like and throw down.

Most of our lakes in North Texas fish pretty much the same. The one major exception is Texoma. That lake fishes much different than any other lake I fish and we’re often much deeper on that fishery.

We all do things a little different but here are a few things I do to locate fish right now. First thing I do is try and figure out the bait and fish pattern. There can be multiple patterns on any given day but there is usually a magic depth where most of the biomass is hanging out in and it changes from day to day. Once I figure out that depth I eliminate the dead water and start scanning the areas I think fish will be at those depths. You can literally go all over the lake checking that magic depth and the fish are there. Once I start marking a good group with some bigger fish in that magic depth I throw down.

As the water gets into the 50s the lake is done mixing and Shad will start to group up in mid depths. Some years this can happen in October and some years like this year it happens around Thanksgiving. Lots of guys still fish shallow and do good but I start focusing my attention on the channel in 15-35 ft and the flats around them. I also fish pockets and shoreline contours with wind blowing into or across them. I’m looking for large concentrations of bait with fish around them. Once I locate these concentrated areas I throw down.

As the water hits the mid 40s, the bait moves deeper and I start looking in 30-60ft. Get a big cold snap and I look in the deepest parts of your lake. As it warms up in February we start moving more shallow from 35-2 ft. Big warming trend go shallow, cold front hits and drop back out to mid depths.

In the spring it’s all about the rain coming into the lake. When the lake is on the rise we’re up in the mouth of creeks or river. Shorelines with wind blowing on them that lead to these creeks can be good. If it hasn’t rained then im looking in 23ft up to 2 ft.

Generally speaking, if you can locate the larger concentrations of bait then those are the best areas to target. 90% of the fish will be concentrated in 10% of the lake. Finding that 10% of water on any given day is the trick!
Posted By: KEGracing

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 03:53 AM

Thanks Chris!

This is exactly what I was looking for. I know things change and some days nothing seems to work... but need a starting point. Need to make sure I am keeping my notes and reference like this to help build patterns and plans.

I am looking forward to the next few months.

Tight lines y'all

Ken
Posted By: Catfish Tim

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 12:51 PM

Ken,

I agree with most of what Chris said, I practice a little different than he does. Chris looks around more than I do. I tend to want my bait in the water quicker. When we fished together on Tawakoni he did what he says. We looked and looked. That day, we didn't find 'em. But it wasn't for lack of tryin. I heard him comment several times we were looking for a driftable pattern. I will put baits down and start drifting sooner than he does just to be fishing. I will do so when I mark some fish but less of a concentration than what Chris is looking for.

I agree completely about finding the magic depth. When I see fish in 25' and shallower, I leave the deeper water out of my search. I will move from one spot to the next and when I get to that same depth, the fish will usually begin to show up when I hit that depth. Is it temp? Is it barometric pressure? I don't know. I tend to think the barometer has a lot to do with it but that's just what I think.

I do look at the wind pattern closely. I will fish with the wind 99 times out of 100. Chris fishes contours a lot and when I was with him he did it well. I tend to fish open water flats at a specific depth where I can drift a long pattern if I can. If there is no wind, I will pull boards with the trolling motor. If I don't have any success doing that, I will head for the trees and tie up.

I have been waiting and waiting for the surface temp to get below 60 degrees. It has been stuck about 62 for a couple weeks. When it does get below 60 I look for the bait to school up and get easier to catch. I like what Chris has said about finding 8 or 10 places where the bait stays year round so you don't have to throw and throw and catch one or two at a time. I have not done that and I need to.

For me the easiest pattern to recognize and take advantage of is the early spring warm up. When the water has been cold and the sun hits the shallows in the spring or even in the winter when we get a good warm day, the water in those shallow coves will warm up and the fish will come. Fishing those shallows in 4 or 5 feet of water and hanging a 25 or 30 pounder is a blast.

I guess the easiest patterns are the extreme temps when the water is very cold, in the 40s, the fish will pile up deep. When the shallows warm in the spring the fish run for the warm water. All they are trying to do is get comfortable. That's what all this is about.

If you think about it in those terms it will help you pattern them...

Chris, did I get anything wrong?
Posted By: ReelBusy

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 01:00 PM

Question, is this targeting blues only?
Posted By: Blue Blazer 2400

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:13 PM

I am by no means a GURU but here is what I do. I have got a lot of info from Chris over the past couple of years and I have applied it with greater success. One thing that Chris does more than me is side scans until he sees exactly what he wants to see before he throws down down. I do a lot more side scanning than I used to but rarely will I ever scan for more than 45 minutes to an hour. Usually after about 30 minutes I am ready to start soaking baits. I am more like Tim when it comes to scanning. But I will always have a game plan ready and the fish usually mess it up. HAHA. Just when I think I should know where they should be they will be in the opposite direction. I start by finding the depth of where most of the bait is hanging in, and the fish are usually close by but not always.

I still need to do more searching for bait holes though. I have about 4-5 that they are usually in but I need to find more because there are times when I have to go searching because they aren't there. It always makes for a frustrating day when it takes all morning to find bait.

But fish are like people, they have different opinions sometimes. Last year I was catching solid fish in 40ish feet, teens to mid 20s. Once I got back to the dock I met a super nice guy and we were talking and he is more like Chris when it comes to scanning. He said he saw me out there and marked a lot of fish but no giants so he kept looking. He ended up finding a group of good fish in about 25 feet and caught several big fish all the way up to mid 50s, I scanned for a little bit in that depth but obviously I didn't spend enough time because I wasn't marking anything. He did say that there was no bait in that depth though, so I am not sure what those fish were doing there. I guess they just wanted to be different from the fish I was on.
Posted By: Catfish Tim

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by ReelBusy
Question, is this targeting blues only?


For me that's a yes. I think some would apply to other species as well but Blue's is what I'm all about...
Posted By: Bluecat Bob

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:18 PM

Incredibly helpful thread guys.

Thank y'all.

I've been up on RayBob all week, and when not fighting the waves and wind, I've been putting in time locating bait and fish. It's been completely different than last month when I was here, and fish have been hard to find and even harder to catch!
Posted By: Catfish Tim

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:25 PM

That's why they call it fishing and not catching Bob. The season changing changes everything and the worst part is, it can be different from year to year. It takes a lifetime of doing this to really begin to understand it. I learn every time I go out.
Posted By: 🍀El Gato Azul🍀

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:29 PM

Your spot on Tim! I like to fish those open water flats too and that’s where I was expecting the fish to be that day but they just weren’t there. We scanned em all and they looked like the surface of the moon. Lifeless!! It’s not like they were scattered either, they were gone completely and you know I’m not throwing down unless I’m marking good fish. I focused on contours that day because those were the only good groups of fish we could find that were driftable. I build a pattern and then I go look for fish on that pattern. We found fish but couldn’t make em bite that morning. The only other fishable pattern was up in heavy timber and those fish didn’t want to play either. There are going to be days like that occasionally and God does that to keep us humble and to help put things into perspective. I’m just glad it only happens once a year! because those kinds of days are painful but they do make you appreciate the good days more that’s for sure! There is only one kind of fishing trip that is worse and that is when you can’t locate fish at all!
Posted By: ReelBusy

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:45 PM

Great info guys thumb thumb
Posted By: Bluecat Bob

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 02:46 PM

Yup, learning, learning, learning, especially if like me if you're a n00by to cat fishing.

Last time I was fishing up at Ray Bob, just over a month ago, I fished the shallow flats to the NW of the lake in the area shown below,

[Linked Image]

I was getting rods bit one after the other, quite the workout, just pulling boards with the wind in 15 feet of water.

This past week it was empty of fish, like running over the desert.

Amazing.,
Posted By: 🍀El Gato Azul🍀

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 03:04 PM

Guys, I scan the way I do for several reasons. #1 is because that’s how I learned from the high level guides and tournament anglers I’ve fished with. #2 reason is out of pure necessity. Lewisville is notoriously tough for big fish and if your not willing to scan hard for them then your not going to catch very many good fish. Most days I’m scanning 30-45 minutes but if I’m not marking good fish then I’m going to keep looking. If I don’t find them then I go back and fish the best group I marked earlier. Lewisville isn’t like Twok or Lavon where there are good fish all over the lake and you can just pull long drifts and do good. Try that on Lewisville and you’ll be disappointed the majority of the time. I’m not scanning my tail off because I love to scan guys, I scan because I love to catch fish and I just don’t have much success unless scan hard.
Posted By: KEGracing

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 03:15 PM

THIS is the conversations I was hoping this thread would spawn. Thanks all!

Sitting in a conference room in Arkansas, wanting to be on the lake...!

Cheers,

Ken
Posted By: Fish Killer

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 03:27 PM

Great posts by everyone!!

Could have a couple of beers and talk about this stuff for hours just picking everyone's brain.

I just hate catching bait.
Posted By: TRH (formerly xpress00)

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 04:38 PM

Well put guys. Lots of great information and the more you can retain, the better you will become.
I'll always start my days with a plan of attack. Now, just to be clear, that plan almost always has to be tweaked. What I've learned is that it's never the same year to year or season to season. Start with what that general pattern should be, then adjust as needed.
Looking around, scanning, searching.... for hours, lol... That's part of the game.
I think the best thing a person can do is to not rely on any one pattern or technique. Be ready, and prepared, to change up whatever you were thinking going in. And by that I mean, be prepared to make a complete 180 in pattern or technique, or even both on any given day.
Posted By: Catfish Tim

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 07:56 PM

Chris, you are one of if not the most disciplined fishermen I know. I don't appreciate how blessed I am sometimes to be on Lavon. I might be a better angler if I was faced with a Twok or Lewisville regularly.

You catch better numbers than I do every week. I might catch a bigger fish but that's got more to do with the fishery than the fisherman. I get impatient when I'm not getting bit. I will stick and move after 30 minutes or so until I start finding fish. Sometimes I think I might improve my numbers if I would stay longer in one spot. Same is true for scanning. Would I do better if I looked for higher concentrations of fish before I put baits down? I think I might. Lots for me to think about for this weekend...
Posted By: 🍀El Gato Azul🍀

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 09:36 PM

You do great Tim but once you get used to that side scan sonar you will hit a different level buddy! Trying to compare Lavon catches to Lewisville is like comparing a Ferrari to a Fiat. They are completely different fisheries. Lavon is considered a top Big Fish lake while Lewisville has long been known for putting guides out of business. There is a reason that there are no trophy catfish guides on Lewisville in the winter. They all leave for better fisheries. Chad Furgeson gone. Randall Hall gone. Tom Gravley leaves in the winter. Bobby Kubin quit.

Now that you have side image you will start to fish differently and after you run side scan for 5 yrs you will be fishing completely different than you do now no doubt. After 10 yrs you’ll wonder how you ever fished without it. You’ll start to see things on SI that you never could see with 2d and you’ll start looking for those things every trip. You’ll quit that old school stick and move game and you’ll start scanning until you find what your looking for. It is the natural progression. My other buddies Kurtis Get Slimed and Tim Carroll fish both our lakes often and destroy the big fish on Lavon and I mean frequent days with 5-10 fish in the 20-50 lb class and they take a beating on Lewisville just like everyone. I wish Lewisville would rebound but it’s heyday is long gone. When I want to catch trophies I travel fish.
Posted By: 🍀El Gato Azul🍀

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 09:39 PM

Just ask Trent aka TRH about Lewisville. He is a tournament angler and used to call Lewisville his home lake. I’d bet the house he will tell ya big fish are very hard to come by on Lewisville.
Posted By: TRH (formerly xpress00)

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/18/21 09:59 PM

well dang.. just had my reply up and then accidentally shut my window down.

Oh well, here goes. I cut my teeth catfishing lewisville. Spoke to Bobby and Tom numerous times, fished with Tom, etc. Both great guys and guides. I agree with Chris, Lewisville is a tough lady to get big fish on. They just don't seem to make up the population there. Sure, there are still some toads in there, but no where near the likes of Lavon, Twok, Texoma, ect. I know a few lakes much, much smaller that produce more big fish, more regularly than Lville. Who know's what happened, but it happened. I'm sure there are still some toads swimming around, but to me it's become more of a fill your box lake. Just my opinion... probably don't mean too much to anyone other than me...lol



Speaking of Tournaments....the CTCT classic is this weekend on CC, you would have needed to qualify to fish it, but the new season will be starting soon and it's a very well run, somewhat local, trail if your interested in getting in on some tourny's.
Posted By: Catfish Tim

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/19/21 12:39 PM

It is a mystery to me how a lake that was a trophy lake in the past is now a fill your box lake. The only reason that makes sense to me is over fishing. Maybe that's the case. When I look at TFF and only see 150 guys on the catfish page and 800 guys on the bass page it makes me wonder. I know catfishing is growing in popularity but to me, that is a recent development. Not sure it has been a thing long enough to change the dynamics of a lake like that.

I do think that if we don't practice good conservation habits, all of our great Texas catfish lakes will become like that. Y'all know I go to the Tennessee River and fish Guntersville. I am going again in January. in past years we would be fishing Wheeler. Josh tells me that there has not been one fish over 50 pounds caught in Wheeler since last January. The commercial fisherman are killing the rivers and lakes harvesting all the big fish for the pay lakes.

If the ACA is good for one thing, I think it will be as a lobbying force to get legislation past to protect our fisheries. I just hope it isn't too late.
Posted By: 🍀El Gato Azul🍀

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/19/21 01:21 PM

There were juggers from Oklahoma that used to come down to Lewisville and run strings of 100s of Jugs for pay lakes. They would bring a water tank truck to keep em in and the lake has never recovered from it. You would thing the fish would just regrow and replace the lost fish but that just not the case. I’m big on catfish conservation and this is one of the reasons why. Lewisville was a top 5 lake at one point but the last 20 yrs it’s steadily declined in big fish to a point where there aren’t very many toads left at all. Most of the new breed of anglers practice CPR of big fish but there is still a certain group that doesn’t. I still see juggers keeping big fish to eat and I know several guys that are on this forum that used to post pics of big fish that were about to get filleted. After getting called out by me and others they no longer post those pics but you can bet they are still keeping big fish though. There is a Facebook group called Catfishing America and y’all wouldn’t believe how many folks still keep big fish and are proud of it in that group. They laugh at catfish conservation and flaunt these big fish they are keeping just to piss people off. They call anyone who stands up for conservation a Karen! Makes me sick so I quite following that group. Only catfish groups I will follow now must be conservation minded. Even a lake like Twok will get ruined as every time I stay at anchor inn I see huge fish at the cleaning station. Texoma is another lake that gets hammered by juggers and I see huge fish being cleaned at the cleaning stations where we stay. That lake should crank out 100 lbrs a lot more frequently than it does. I hope the laws continue to go the way of big fish conservation but the speed at which these things are studied and implemented is like pouring molasses on a cold day.
Posted By: Blue Blazer 2400

Re: request for another "general guidelines" around water temps and seaons - 11/19/21 02:31 PM

Yes is sad that people keep these big cats. Not all catfish have the genetics to get big, just like deer. Once people remove these fish with the best genetics in the lake then they ruin the lake. Most people don't think about genetics, they think that all fish have the ability to get big and that is not the case at all.

There used to be a group out of Oklahoma that would come to Twok and run jugs and they would not keep anything smaller than about 20 pounds. They had a big goose neck trailer with chest freezers on it and a generator. There was a bunch of guys in the group with several boats and they wouldn't leave until the freezers were full. They would take the meat and sell it (illegally I would think).

3 years ago me and a buddy were fishing Twok for hybrids and sandbass and we got out there before daylight to get live shad. We pulled up over by the city park and we could smell dead fish from about 100 yards away. Once I got closer to the bank i could see a bunch of big cats that had been filleted and washed up on the bank. I don't remember exactly how many I counted but if I remember right I counted 12 and that was just what I could see. The smallest head I saw was close to a 20 pounder, the biggest was over 40 pounds.

I absolutely get disgusted by anyone who would do such a thing. I am glad TPWD is now putting restrictions in these big fish. We have to look out for the future generations.
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