Tow Vehicle woes

I ask this question here because I am in this area the most.

I have a 2017 American made truck(not going to name brand or dealership as yet) with 63,000 miles on it, my commute is long, so lots of miles on my vehicles. I am driving home two weeks ago this Friday and the transmission goes out on I35. Took it to the dealership they give me a loaner truck and say I can not haul or tow anything with it?? They then take over a week to get it into the tranny shop to evaluate it. The torque converter has come apart inside and the tranny is full of metal. I find out trucks no longer have 100,000 mile power train warranties, they are now 60,000 miles so I am 3,000 over but it is a two year old $50,000 truck. My question...should it be fixed under warranty or should I have to replace what I think is obviously a defective tranny? So far they say I have to pay for it and should have bought the extended warranty. I have the money and can fix it but it is a principal thing to me, stand behind your brand! Now waiting to here back from a senior level case worker for the manufacture. What say ye, my responsibility or manufacture?

I say this very humbly and sorry for your loss but if you have a 60,000 mile warantee why would it be a “principal thing” for them to not warrant the vehicle for longer than stated warantee?

I would google the year model you have and see if others have had the same issue.
Have some ammunition to back up your claim of a defective tranny and if you don't have a strong argument you are probably SOL if the warranty has run out.

The situation sucks I bought my 06 silverado new and didn't put 10k on it and the tenant went out in Houston the valve body stuck open and would only go in 1st gear. It took me 8 hours to make it back to fort worth. I was able to figure out if I shifted it into neutral when it died at 20mph I could restart it and drop it back in gear while still rolling and the tyranny would grab and go for 1/2 a mile before I would have to do it again. They put in a new tyranny with a shift kit apparently those model 4L60E's servos were junk and they put a shift kit in it and haven't had any troubles since. Knock on wood!

2 minute google search and I have plenty of company with the same problem fairly early in the life of the truck. Company will not admit the problem, too expensive to recall IMO.

I have a brand new truck and it has a hesitation/miss and was told it was made like that. I have talked to guys that have had same issue and dealers won't do anything. The other guys payed a independent to reprogram the computer. Kinda irritating when its under warranty and to get it fixed you have to pay someone.

I am in the market for a new truck and would like to know this model if possible.

It would not be any big issue to name the brand. Reason I say this is because they will all give you the same run around with vehicles in your situation. If the warranty is expired it's expired in their thought process. Their business models don't factor in principle. I would if I were you watch for any recalls on that vehicle and check the sites for recalls regularly and you may be able to get it reimbursed if it ever comes up.

No doubt they should last longer but sounds like you are going to get the shaft on this. If its out of warranty I would make sure you get it to a transmission shop with a good reputation. Don't let the dealership pick the cheapest one. Trust me they are not all created equal. Many of these transmission shops are just a pack of thieves. Plus the dealership will likely tack on $400-$500 above the actual cost for all their hard effort. The other advantage of taking it to a good independent shop is the fact that most of the tourque converter issues that are common with several different truck brands can be fixed long term by using a higher quality aftermarket converter. Sorry for your bad luck on this.

You guys need to buy a Tundra!

How far past the warranty do you expect them to go? I blew a dodge engine at 42,000 and dodge wouldn't do anything for me since it was 6,000 miles out of warranty.

I think they should offer you some kind of discount.. not necessarily cover everything,,, but try for something.

When I bought my truck new in 2017 I added the 120,000 bumper to bumper warranty just in case something like this happens. I'm at 66,000 miles and probably won't need it but it wasn't much more per month versus no extended warranty

For 50 grand, American made, all maintenance done on time, I expect more than 2 years trouble free driving and if not I expect the company to live up to their advertising! That is all.



This is where we are at and if this is what happens I am good with it.

If they had better fuel mileage thats what I would have for sure, hoping the next gen one does.

I certainly agree they should last longer. Did you change the fluid? My Chevy made it 314,000 miles on the original fluid towing the boat every weekend. I've had several mechanics say not to do fluid changes.

Did they not offer you any more warranty than that or did you just take whatever the basic warranty was and refuse extended warranty? If they didn't offer you anything more than 60,000 miles on a new truck that is crazy. I just got 100,000 mile (on top of existing mileage), 6 year bumper to bumper on a pre-owned truck with 35,000 miles on it. I agree you should not have a tranny fall apart at 60,000 miles but if extended warranty was offered but refused then that will be tough to get anything covered.

I understand your feelings but if the warranty is 3-5 years / 60,000 miles then it is which one is reached first, not both or which ever is longer. Seems like they know about how long they will last.
I purchased a 7 year unlimited mileage warranty and found out that any part considered a wear item wasn't covered. Even if the wear item only lasted 2 weeks the warranty wouldn't cover it even on the factory warranty. Sucks though.

Are you sure your GM truck is made in the US or do you have a Crew Cab that was made in Mexico?

They should certainly last longer than 63K but if they only have a 60K warranty why would you expect it to be warrantied?

The only way GM will pay for yours or the countless others that have failed will be if a Class Action Lawsuit is filed (and won) against them.

They are still the 2nd leading selling truck on the road and with all the problems they had with the transmissions I know why they are swapping to the Ford/GM or the GM/Ford co-designed 10 Speed.

I had a friend who (against my advice) bought a JEEP Wrangler with a special ordered manual transmission in it.

She lives in Austin so there is a lot of city driving I would suspect.

Her clutch and pressure plate exploded, knocking a huge hole in the transmission, and transmission housing at 12,3xx miles and about 6 months old.

Well like you found out the wearable parts don't have the same coverage and it was only covered for 12K miles.

It cost her almost 9K to get it fixed and she was then traded it in so it wouldn't happen again.

When I bought my Tundra in 2007 they only had a 30/35,000 mile warranty. I have no idea what they have now, hopefully it is longer than that. Luckily I never needed anything major done. Still have the truck and it still runs great, only had a water pump go out in the last 12 years. I agree that the gas mileage is awful, but it is somewhat of a trade off for the longevity of the vehicle. Of course I am sure there are instances where others havent had the same luck with their Tundras as well, but I have been pretty lucky.

I remember the sales guy telling us how embarrassing it was to say the warranty information in the sales process.

Same here 249585 and counting 2006 f 150 lariat and I pulled 26 ft travel trailer with it pretty regular.
J D

My mechanic told me that changing fluid regularly will never cause a failure.

If fluid is already showing signs of wear, then he would not change the fluid as it can cause sooner failure.

60,000 is 60,000. It's out of warranty

That sucks, people always question why I still drive my suburban..... well because it doesn’t cost me a dime and at 325kkk it’s still pulling my boat no issues only been in transmission shop for one rebuild.

should be in Tow Vehicle section.

It never hurts to see what the dealer can do maybe give you a break, but it is out of warranty.

I had a dealer step up with the manufacturer one time (GM) and fix a trans issue I had when I was just outside of warranty.

I paid what they called a deductible of $500 for a new transmission. Heck for all I know it could have been an easy fix and I probably overpaid them. But it was James Wood and I’ve developed a pretty good relationship with them so I’d like to trust what they say.

You can buy a considerable amount of gasoline for the price of a transmission. Check the math.
Disclosure: I do not own a Tundra.

Hate to beat a dead horse but not sure where your argument is coming from when it’s 60k warranty and you’re passed that.

And you can name the brand, they don’t care how mad or wrong you think it is or if “you’ll never buy another vehicle from them again” they don’t care.

I paid cash for a 2500 mega cab new in 2014 and remember getting pissed that I found A pretty large scratch on it when the guy pulled it out front and they told me
Too bad I should've looked it over. I played The “I just spent 70k” card and they laughed in my face. Called Chrysler fiat they could care less. If you’re curious to the dealership it was autonation alliance of 35 N

Most likely you’re screwed, I had a crankshaft snap in a Chevrolet 5.7 at 41k miles. Chevrolet made me eat the new motor. They said the crankshaft was defective, but no warranty, no fix.

A good friend of mine had that happen in his 2500 with the 6.2L in it.

Thankfully for him it was at 30K so they replaced the engine.

Depending on what brand it is some companies offer after warranty assistance . There are several key factors such as maintenance history at the dealer, brand loyalty (# of new vehicles of that particular brand bought by you) , if you are the original owner, etc. Most bigger ford dealer are allotted p18 money. It is a number that ford allows that dealer every quarter to help in situations just like yours. If it’s a ford ask for assistance and if the advisor won’t help ask to speak to the service manager. A lot of varying factors and money can be moved ( reducing parts price, labor rate,etc) . Lastly you can contact the manufacturers customer assistance hotline and they may work with you. You’ll get further being polite and respectful. I’ve been lucky enough to see the other side of this situation so i use it in my personal experiences. Example, I bought my Basscat new from tommy at Rockwall marine. I had a Evinrude midsection gasket fail 1 month out of warranty. Even though I am a mechanic for a living I still paid to have all services performed on the boat by Rockwall marine with oem parts so they would be on file. When the time came Rockwall presented those facts to brp and they offered to split the billl which I thought was very fair and I was also very appreciative of Tommy’s help. These are the things that no one speaks of when bashing dealers for service and repair. 1 bad experience and people tell 10 friends. 1 great experience and people tell 1 person. Not always the case but seems more par for the course from my experience. Hope this helps you in some way on getting your vehicle fixed.

Wesley
Ford Senior Master Diesel Technician

Thanks for all the feedback. In the end I know it is out of warranty, I was basically curious about others opinions and experiences. BTW I was told today the new tranny will have 100,000 mile warranty. What does that say? I think it says either they have improved them or they really like financing extended warranties up front.

I am a production manager for an American made product that is sold all over the world. I was just shocked that an American company refused to stand behind their product. Someone calls us with a problem it is resolved most of the time on our dime immediately. It is way to easy to trash companies now days, you have to give good customer service and yes give stuff away if you want to survive.

In the end, I have a 99 Toyota 4 Runner with nearly 300,000 miles that has never had a drive train issue. Unfortunately I will probably be buying a Tundra for my next truck which is terribly disappointing to me! Merica!!

Don't work through the dealer, write a letter and call car company. Probably won't help but I've had luck. I own 2 old Lexus's 05 GL470 I pull my boat with and 07 RX350. I can find 5-8 year old Lexus's with low miles and every 5K done at the dealership so they are pretty good older used cars/trucks for the price. Mine have 140K and 180K and I've rarely don't anything besides change fluids.

Anyway, my daughter had a Corolla that at about 60K had a wiring harness go out. Part was like $900. I wasn't getting anywhere with the dealer, called Lexus and told them I had 2 (didn't tell them I buy them used) and that this Corolla sucked and next time I'd buy Honda. They covered the part and I just had to pay labor. So you never know, but the dealer won't help. The car company has deeper pockets.

I can already tell you are talking about a Chevy/GMC with the warranty periods now going to 60k powertrain, I drive the same truck and ill be the first to say the Toyota Tundra is more American made than our GM's just a FYI. They are made in Texas to be exact.

Tundras are made in San Antonio so maybe not American made but it is Texas made!

I worked for a dealership for 13 years...……...The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Throw a fit, do not take "no" for an answer, contact the service manager, then the general manager, then the zone rep, then contact "customer service" on the internet. They will take care of you. Seen it happen a million times. Usually the worst case is you split the cost 50/50

I would be speaking with the manufacturer - not the dealer.

I would talk to them saying how bout I pay half you pay half kind of deal. I see your frustration.

I worked in dealer service departments for about 14 years - mostly as warranty administrator or service advisor. Be happy to give you my 2 cents.

First you need to speak to the service manager and have him arrange a meeting with the district service manager (i.e. rep from the manufacturer). It sounds like you've done this. Some manufacturers are more willing to help than others. In my experience Ford reps were more generous than GM or Chrysler - but I guess that's a moot point. Probably the most important factor in the decision process is - "Can we make this person a happy, return customer?". If you start off with "I hate this truck. I'll never buy another *BRAND* vehicle, etc." you're shooting yourself in the foot. They want to know that spending money to satisfy you is going to pay off in the long run. Other important factors: Did you buy the vehicle new? Did you buy it from this dealer? Do you stay current on maintenance? Do you have the maintenance done at the dealership? (I.E. are you spending money with them?) Does the truck look well cared for, or like it's been rode hard and put away wet?

If they refuse to cover the repairs 100%, try to negotiate. Maybe they will pay 80%. Maybe they will pay the labor and 50% of the parts? (They have more room to negotiate on the labor than the parts. On the other hand, the manufacturer makes a profit on the parts and 0 profit on the labor. The dealer gets all of the profit from the labor). Maybe they will pay 100% if you agree to pay for a 60k mile service (probably $500 - $600 depending on the vehicle). Maybe they will give you full trade-in value and fix the transmission on their own budget. Lots of possibilities.

Most importantly, try to keep a positive goal-oriented attitude. Getting mad or argumentative won't help at all. Try to show them that by spending some money they can make you a happy customer for life. Best of luck!!

Just have to add one more thing. I love my 2012 Tundra with the 5.7. It tows like a son-of-gun and I've never had an issue. *knocks wood*

Toyota is American made so why would choosing one disappoint you?

Might want to look at that American made (built is a better term) Toyota transmission. I'd bet that part is Japan built still to this day. Always have been.
I owned 3 Toyotas. 2 older 20R and 22R motor truck sold. Both had over 200K on them. My last was a 2013 Tundra which gained a whopping 10.3 MPG towing. If it saw a gas station, I had to stop at it.

Switched to and Eco Deisel and glad I have. 2016 model. 26.7 MPG non towing and 15-17 with boat depending on my foot in gas. To date nothing has had an issue. Bumper to bumper for it until 2024 or 120K. So far 39000 on it without a hiccup.

Bottom line is all these trucks are good but designed to fail. That's how the dealers and mechanics earn your business. They are too electronic conrolled and computer chip based. If we expect that to never fail then we all are suckers!

Just my 2 cents.......

Because no matter where they are made, (cars are made all over the world at this point) the companies PROFITS go overseas. I will never buy a vehicle made by a company that is not based in the USA. I wish more people in this country had this point of view. Let the Japanese people buy Japanese cars put together in the USA.

I had a 2002 Ford F150. Transmission went out at 24/K miles. Ford replaced it under warentee. Service guy told me i should not tow with it. Said it was hard on the transmission. Last Ford I ever bought when their service people recommend not using it for towing. Have had two Tundra's since then with no problems from either of them.

This happens all the time! Heck I bought a 2018 kia forte with 16 miles on it drove to galveston and on the way home motor started misfiring like check engine light flashing and everything so bad it hydrolocked itself! This car was less then 300 miles on it and one week old yet it had taken the dealership more than 30 days to get me my car back, which sucked because I had to uber to work $20 a day.

Our company was notorious for buying the cheapest version available which was always an XL V6 with 5 speed standards in them.

They were rated to tow 3800 lbs IIRC and they clutches went out regularly.

In this case they were not made to tow with and you could tell from the premature failures.

Now that isn't the case anymore with any of their transmissions.

I was fishing with James Biggs and he's pulling with the Colorado diesel 4 banger and pulled like a champ. Gets 30 mpg on the highway so not bad. Now if only I could fish like James.

I personally find that strange, most MFG's offer 100,000 mile warranty on the power train at the least! I would question it. I would!!!!!

GM and Chrysler lost me when they screwed over the American taxpayers and their bondholders. I would consider buying a Ford still, but will probably never own another GM even though I'm very fond of the Corvette.

I am a full time guide. I tow every day. 99% of my miles are towing my 26ft large bay boat which weighs 6500 pounds. My first choice tow vehicle is BMW x5 with 3L diesel. I get 36mpg empty and 13-14 towing that boat at 70mph. Wife got hers first. I towed my boat with it once and sold the chevy 3/4 ton as fast as possible. It tows, stops, handles and is so much more stable than that truck ever thought about. Does everything better. Again i am a full time guide on the water 250 days a year. Heres a pic of my boat, my buddies 26ft twin engine offshore boat, and wifes 7'10" tall two horse trailer for her giant 18 hands jumper horses. One of the best tow vehicles for up to 7500 pounds i have ever had. I have 85k miles on mine. Wife has 95k miles on hers.

We just got rid of a mid size gm suv with a 3.6l for a miss under slight load! They had it 7 times and couldn't fix it!

Now i swear our new tahoe with the 5.7l is doing the same thing!!!!

This may be my last gm vehicle. But no way i'm going with the gas mileage of Toyota's.

Do you post on THT? I think I saw one of your posts there some time ago.
I have considered an X5 and sell my Dodge Cummins. Its reliable but a 2000 and does not get the mpg yours does and I don't really need a truck anymore.
I've looked at a couple used and done some research on BMW forums. The biggest problem I've seen is the DEF system failures and BMW has a deal to replace them on the problem vehicles.

5.3L here.

sorry it is a 5.3 also. too much yota talk i guess. lol

I would call 1800-GM-CARES
This worked for me in the past. Tell them your story and where you took the vehicle. They bought my ac control unit for me post warranty because it was just out.

Call the manufacturer explain the problems you are having. I bet they do something for you. Anything is better then nothing. I hear this from the dealership all the time.. They cant do anything but the manufacturer can..

Might be a Tundra they are made here.

Manufacturer did nothing after I called them and the dealership called them. I am picking my truck up in the morning after more than two weeks and a lot of arguing. It is costing me $4300 out of pocket and they say that is a deal and big concessions on the dealerships part. 2017 Z71 Chevy LT purchased at Moritz and being serviced at James Wood in Denton. I will be shopping for a different truck as soon as I can reasonably afford to do so!

Typical dealership costs. About twice what it would cost at an independent.

A heavy diesel transmission rebuild for high horsepower would cost close to that.

First I would have taken it to the selling dealer.

I have heard of others paying for parts only in similar circumstances. Is it an 8 speed? I know they had recalls specifically on the torque converters on some of the 8-speeds.

if your paying all out of pocket I would take it to a non dealer service shop.

63k on a truck transmission is GARBAGE. With trucks these days it seems like if you want to be able to touch 200k towing a bass boat you need to step up to a 1 ton diesel and get that 200k in QUICK..

I really want a Jeep Gladiator but the way vehicles are coming off the lots now I doubt I would get my money out of it. My tow vehicle is an old '07 Dodge with 220k on the original trans and engine, I just do regular maintenance and she is happy with a new part here or there. I wouldn't honestly trust jumping in it with a trailer and heading to California tomorrow, but it's a great side vehicle for grabbing parts or towing out to about Austin.
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8 speed trans? Did you ever experience hard shifts and weird transmission behavior prior to the torque converter failing/metal shavings discovered in your transmission? If so, since 2016 they have been dealing with that. Under a load those hard shifts could wreak havoc on your trans. Google your specific transmission (8L90?) and look at service bulletins on the Third Gen (2014+)

https://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2018/gm-8-speed-transmission-fix-lawsuit.shtml

Here are service bulletins to start Googling. I would go back to the dealer and GM and fight them hard.
--- TSB 16-NA-175
--- TSB 18-NA-177


You can look up all service bulletins for your year. Look them over and see if they apply to you.

I find the quality of the more modern vehicles I have owned to far exceed the older ones. My 2011 1500 z71 trans was way better than the 1994 1500, my current ram 1500 with the ZF-8speed is better than the 2011. There are a lot of people out there who could F*#K up a mothers love when it comes to vehicles and blame it all on the manufacturer too.

That could be true, but the service schedule shows only a fluid change at 45k. Pushing it to 63k wouldn't be what killed it. I bet they noticed a lot of shavings if he did the 45k service and didn't say anything. I sent OP a link with more info on his transmission - maybe he missed the warning signs from the TSB's and can push GM harder - ESPECIALLY if he did go to a dealer because of any of the symptoms in the TSB and they told him it was taken care of (the TSB's show the original repairs didn't work).

Personally I'm obsessive with service so I would probably have done the trans fluid/filter before 20k with towing, then let the dealer do the 45k service if worried about service records.

I knew it was a GM product as soon he said torque converter. People look more at the EPA ratings when comparing MPGs than actual numbers. Problem is the Tundras get much closer (in fact all of mine) to the EPA numbers than the BIG 3. I think Fords are probably off more than the others. My brother's 5.0 F150 does worse than mine. Plus $4300 and all the inconvenience will buy a lot of gas. It will easily cover the extra gas over the life of the truck even the life of a Tundra.

Yes, 1/2 ton GM's are Mexican made.. But the HD trucks with the Duramax/Allison are American out of Flint, Michigan.

But, I'm sure his is not a 3/4 ton... An Allison taking a [censored] at 63,000 miles is unheard of.

I has a 2007 LMM and the Allison grenaded on it @ 38,000 miles. It was replaced under warranty, but that dang truck just didn't like to run in the Texas heat. If I would sit at idle for more than about 10 minutes the A/C would [censored] out. I had it into the dealer multiple times and they said they couldn't replicate it. I sold it and went back to a Dodge. After I got rid of it I started noticing in the heat of the summer driving through road work that several different contractors would be pulled off the road with the hood up. I finally stopped and asked a guy one day he was driving an LBZ and he told me that if he didn't pop his hood at idle the cab of his truck would turn into a sauna.

Hmm interesting all our duramaxes freeze your azz off running, idle etc. don't matter.

They all turn out a lemon, it happens. Ive owned ford, honda, chevy, ram, dodge, GMC, Kia and maybe some others if I think hard enough. I haven't had a driveline failure bigger than a u-joint on any of them and most of them were kept till 200,000+ miles.

Ive also never had much trouble getting the EPA rated fuel economy out of any of them either... I could also get worse. If you wanna drive like Ricky Bobby your not going to get good fuel mileage.

Possible GM class action lawsuit

This should tell you what you need to know about GM's 8 speeds

x2! A/C on my LBZ puts ice cycles on my nose! Idling, driving, don't matter. GM has the best HVAC by far out of the big 3 IMO. I haven't seen a good Dodge HVAC honestly.

Same truck 2000 miles later and now the AC is out. I promise I drive normal, just back and forth to the lake, to the woods, to church, and to work. Here we go again!!!!

they can't do that the MPGs suck. At least that is what their excuse is. Real world MPGs are not that much different and between the resale value and repair bills I can buy a lot of gas.

Do you think people enjoy spending money fixing their vehicles? This guy is pissed off he is having to. If buying a Toyota was the simple answer of never have problems again it would have caught on somewhere in the last couple decades don't you think?

Toyotas break too.

I have owned several GM/Ford/Dodge vehicles and when properly maintained I haven't had any big failures and the vast majority of them were kept till well past 200,000 miles. Not saying Toyota doesn't make good vehicles because I think they do, but the rest aren't the steaming piles of feces that many would have you believe. I have almost 67k on my current RAM (supposedly the worst) and it has been absolutely flawless, knock on wood, not even a check engine light.

Over 300k on my 07 Ram - one water pump and just replaced the transmission. Over 160k on my 15 Ram and had to replace a water pump. Get 16/17 unloaded out of my 15 (gasser) and would be better if I kept my foot out of it. So Ram isn't the terrible vehicle that everyone claims.
Over 300k on my Tacoma and it still runs strong.

I have owned all three, Diesel and gas. I can honestly say that with Ram I have by far had the lowest cost of ownership, a 2006 5.9 Cummins I never put a wrench on except for routine maintenance sold it with 190k on the clock. Hindsight I should have kept it but the interior was inferior at the time. Now my daily driver is a 2016 Rebel and it has been great 85,000 on the clock and not a lick of trouble fuel mileage has been pretty good too and I also find that Ram interiors have set the new standard for comfort and luxury. The last statement is subjective but the cost of ownership is fact.

Agree with the new Ram interiors. Look great. Now, my Tundra interior is CHEESY! Plastic [censored] everywhere. And gaps between trim panels. Horrible. But still looks ok. For what it is, it’s durable. Toyota needs to get with it on their interiors. My wife’s Lexus has mismatched illumination colors from the dash area to radio. Looks like an afterthought.

Ah well. They’re trucks.

Maybe the new GM's High Country model will last longer, after all it is only priced at $100,000. This is for the 2020 year model. Not a typo either!!!!

Sounds like my one and only Ram.

Only towing was my 21' bassboat.

High Country is over priced cosmetic carp

The only issues I have with mine is the chrome and the gauges are hard to read in low light and with sunglasses on. I think Toyota started illuminate the cluster full time in 2018 like my Tacomas were.