Braid Question

I know some of you only use mono and others only use braid so please do not hijack this thread and turn it into a debate about which one is better.

To the braid gurus ...... does 65lb braid (not sinking braid) have a greater tendency to float than (say) 20lb braid?

I've tried Googling for some answers but not yet found anything.
Anyone know??

yes, larger diameter

Yep it will float and thats bad when boats are around.

Does anyone know if 65lb braid will float more than 20lb braid though?

i would think so being it is bigger in diamter.

+1, but I have never tested it.

I would say definitely -- maybe!! Fishing two rods side by side in moving water (flow or undertow), one with #65 and the other #30, with identical terminal gear - the higher test line will move a lot faster the the lower. By move I mean get line drag in the water, and it end up pulling your gear across the bottom.
Not exactly proof of buoyancy, more of a resistance factor due to the larger diameter. However - think of the buoyancy difference between floats (bobbers!!) A slender porcupine quill, takes far less weight to [censored] it, than a (same length) wider cork bodied float. Logic tells you the bigger diameter would float more - however - conversely, it is clearly heavier the the smaller diameter - and heavier should sink faster
Good question El Capitan Whoopass

It would seem to me that, since larger diameter gives more over all surface area of an already bouyant material, then heavier test line would certainly be harder to sink.

Its gonna float. They both will if you are cork fishing. If bottom fishing it can be remidied.

I'm well aware of that ...... my question clearly asked "does 65lb braid have a greater tendency to float than (say) 20lb braid?"

We have all said it will float. What more you want.

i use 40 lb braid on a carp rod and 15 lb braid on a bass rod.

i dont have much trouble getting the 15 to sink with a weightless senko worm, but i do have trouble getting the 40 to stay down even when using a 2oz or bigger lead. ive never thought to compare them though, and each is used in a different application so im not sure how accurate the comparison actually is?

i DO know that since ive added a 25lb florocarbon shockleader to the 40 braid, ive had far less problems keeping the line under. i havent snagged a single boater yet! HTH?

Hey Keith - To answer your question about which one will be more bouyant... it'll float, mate.



But there's more to it than just having more of the floaty stuff in the water with 65lb braid as opposed to a 20lb braid.

All modern braid is pretty much the same material - the polyethylene fiber is the same in Dyneema, Spectra etc, and it's all relatively lighter than water (gravity of dyneema = 0.97 Gravity of water = 1). It's the coating and the number of strands that makes the difference I think and the amount of air that is trapped by the line as deteriorates over time and as it hits the water.

With a 20lb braid that has the same number of strands as a 65lb braid (4, 6, 8 or even 16) and the same density of fiber winding (twists per inch) it should make no difference in the relative weight of the line compared to water. (It's like the same argument about what falls faster a steel ball or a tennis ball - after a very short length of time, they both fall at the same rate which is the speed of terminal velocity.)

However, the more strands you use, and the tighter the weave, the less air is let into the line (maybe?) so something like the new Sufix 832 with 8 strands and 32 winds per inch would be denser than PowerPro which is only a 4-strand line. However, in this 8-strand line, one strand is a GORE fiber which is water resistant and also less dense than water, so it will probably float too. It is much more abrasion resistant than Dyneema or Spectra though.

Additionally, lines that use Dyneema tend to be less “fuzzy” and when the coating wears off the line, will trap less air in the line than a similar diameter line that uses fuzzier Spectra. PowerPro is a 4-strand Spectra braid.

The more strands in a braid, the rounder it's profile is. So even if it doesn't float any more than a16-strand braid, a 4-strand braid will have a flatter, wider profile. This means that there is more surface area for water to influence so you may find that the flatter, 4-strand braid is picked up by water currents more readily than round-profile 16-strand braids.
And one more thing to consider – are the strands in the braid coated individually or is the whole woven braid coated instead? Individual coating would suggest more abrasion resistance and less air-trapping fuzziness since there is more coating to be worn off before the fuzz comes along. However, what material is being used for the abrasion-resistant coating? Is it a floating material?

If it is Teflon, as used in SpiderWire, it is even more buoyant than the braid it is coating (gravity of 0.6). A wax coating will also make braid float (gravity of 0.something).
http://www.machinist-materials.com/comparison_table_for_plastics.htm

If it is a silicon coating (gravity of 2 point something), it helps the braid to sink. Most sinking braids usually rely not on heavy coatings, though, but on combining the Spectra or Dyneema thread with other high-tenacity fibers. Past efforts at sinking braids have tended to look more like rope than braid, with a higher than expected diameter.

Kevlar (gravity of 1.6 or so) has being wound into some “sinking” braids in the past because it is highly abrasion-resistant and also heavier than water. However, there have been problems in the past because Kevlar is abrasive in itself that could cut into rod rings etc if it loses its protective coating. I'm not sure how JRC has gotten around this issue with it's Gold Connection sinking braid, but it has been getting some good reviews for sink rate and diameter.

Nash Bullet Braid has been around a bit longer bit it falls into the “rope” category (and so may not cast well) and is only just heavier than water so its sink rate is slower than you may want.

Relix also has a Quick Sink braid made from Aramid (Kevlar) fibers. The sinking braid is up to 30% thicker than the regular Relix braid. (http://www.relixfishing.com/)

Additionally, Kevlar has been shown to degrade in UV far quicker than even monofilament, and can reduce to as low as 40% of stated strength very quickly (within 12 months). Again, I'm not sure how, or even if, this problem has been conquered recently.

If you want to keep it from floating just put a clip on lead at your rod tip after casting out and pull out most of the slack.

I think the point of the question was to ascertain whether there would be significantly less floating with a lower breaking strain of line, say 50lb as opposed to 65lb. Sure, you can use flouro leaders and backleads and flying backleads, and you could rub tungsten putty into it etc. Lots of ways to counteract the floating but if you're gonna buy 50lb instead of 65lb and hope it floats less, I don't think that's the answer. I think the answer lies more in how the line is designed, how it is coated, what it is coated with, whether it is dyneema or spectra, how hardy the coating is, the number of strands, and the density of the weave.

Yes, you can drown a braid, no problem, but keeping it drowned for a period of time is more of a challenge.

nice write up scouser! where the hell did you learn all that?!?!

If I told ya I'd have to kill ya!

good luck with that!

Yeah -- What Tony said
I started looking around for sinking braid earlier this year, as I was fishing a very hard water - where the big Carp have IQ's approaching that of Albert Einstein
I couldn't find anywhere here that stocked anything but 120yd spools - which wasn't going to cut it. I found an Australian company that supplied it in bulk but only in red colour!! They weren't much interested in selling it here though
So - it was back to the tried and trusted heavy leadcore leader and sliding backleads - fishing tight line, to keep it all pinned down.
I'm intrigued as to why you asked Keith? I'm definitely a big fan of the PP braid I've been using for some years now - as I haven't had any issues/problems at all --- just I hate the fact it floats. I mostly use PP hooklinks, and in 'touchy' situations, when using a link any longer than about 6", often put a small split shot midway between the hook and the lead - just to make sure it's going to lie down.
Interesting topic!! Anyone that comes up with a supplier for very high quality sinking braid -- in sensible sized spools - like 300 yds+ - please let us all know.

Was that Aussie line the Platypus? I think that's the one you can only get in red, but since red is the first color in the spectrum to "disappear" under about 8-feet of water, that shouldn't be an issue. I think that used the Kevlar fibers but it doesn't specify in the manufacturer's site.

Oh, and if you wanna P1$$ an Aussie tackle dealer off, tell him you wanna buy his fishing tackle to practice C&R carp fishing!

Oh, and you can get the JRC sinking braid in eBay.co.uk for around a cool $150 for 1200 yards. Plus about another $5,000,000 for shipping.

Mind you, how much of it do you really need? 100 yards max per reel I'd say unless you habitually fish the far bank at Emma Long... from Town Lake.

Last year on Emma, I had one rod out all night - and nothing on it. I went up the bank to get a cup of coffee with Jim, and on my return -- there were about a dozen turns of line left on the spool -- from over 300yds. There was a 40+ buff sitting across the far side of the lake - just waiting for me to finish my coffee I know this was a strange event, however - I don't like having any splices in main lines - even at 120yds. If I'm casting close to 100, and hook a stinking monster -- that other 20yds is going to come off PDQ. BTW, the batteries had run down in my remote - which is why I wasn't aware that fish had buggered off over there!!

I really don't know!

I have never tested it! Now if anyone has tested this please reply to Keith's post. If not please do not reply..

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Yes Sir -- (cap in hand) lesson learned, and now I've got ATTX's and the RX receiver, I can at least safely close my eyes for a few seconds!!
My previous alarms -- EV+'s, with an ATTX remote were terribly hard on batteries, and the range for the receiver dropped as the batteries went down!!
No excuses though, as it just shows that even a rod out there that hadn't been moved for over 9 hours can do the biz.
A nice ending to what could have been a horror story for the fish

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Not throwing any stones Richard -- just hoping others might learn from my "confessed" mistake. Hopefully, it will never happen again, and it doesn't cause others to start needlessly throwing stones at my glass house

Wow, never realized this would create so much confusion.

To those that understood my original question, thank you.
I guess I need to do my own testing to find out the answer.
Tight lines.