Texas Fishing Forum

THE STICKLE HOOK TM

Posted By: leanin post

THE STICKLE HOOK TM - 04/15/21 02:45 PM

anyone here manufacture hooks for crappie jigs?
I have an idea for a hook I would like made..
basically a sickle style hook, with the eye oriented horizontal to the shank.

THE STICKEL HOOK .. STICKEL ..... the STAY LEVEL SICKLE HOOK.... TM
Posted By: Mo

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/15/21 07:55 PM

I have had jigheads like that before, can't remember if they were sickles or not.

MO
Posted By: Laner

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/15/21 09:10 PM

I think your best bet is going to be contacting a wire company (Western Wire may be able to help) and give them your idea. Probably looking at a couple hundred thousand piece minimum order, based on business I've done with them in the past.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/16/21 05:04 AM

I dont think sickles were around yet when the horizontal eye jig heads were made, the ones I have, have a bait keeper pin that comes down alongside of the shank, its in the jig in the pic, so u cant see it. I dont care for the keeper pin, but u cant remove it without destroying the lead head.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/16/21 05:16 AM

Originally Posted by Laner
I think your best bet is going to be contacting a wire company (Western Wire may be able to help) and give them your idea. Probably looking at a couple hundred thousand piece minimum order, based on business I've done with them in the past.



thanks Lane, im going to do some research. im also thinking abt a slight modification of the sickle shape of the gap.
instead of a vee in the bottom of the hook, it will have a small flat area giving it more gap . \
\ /
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Posted By: randy12972

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/17/21 10:40 PM

Bass Pro Shops sold a jig head called a "stinger" that fits your description.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/18/21 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by randy12972
Bass Pro Shops sold a jig head called a "stinger" that fits your description.



thanks I will check it out.
Posted By: TroyKing

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/18/21 11:29 PM

I like the idea of a horizontal eye... but I'm through with sickle hooks.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/20/21 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by TroyKing
I like the idea of a horizontal eye... but I'm through with sickle hooks.


the shape of the hook, be it sickle or round bend, is not the issue, the issue is the inconsistency of the manufacture ring process of the hooks.
its kind of like electric fillet knives, many get a bad rep because the blades are inconsistent in thier sharpness.
They get a brand knife that has very sharp blades, and think, wow, what a great fillet knife., cuts good, doesnt get too hot, ect.
but in reality, the real difference is the blades.. ive bought sets of blades from the same manufacturer, that cut great, then the next set no so good.
anything that is mass produced, especially in china, with little or no quality control, will have varying quality.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/21/21 07:46 PM

I am currently working with a manufacturer to get the STICKLE TM hooks made.. {stay level sickle hooks).
if they can be made the way I want them made, with consistency, I will have a run made. I will get a strong round bend hook made and a strong sickle shape hook made. in the sickle hook shape, the weakness is in the vee at the bottom gap of the hook.
I believe this hook design will make most of the hooks with the vertically oriented eye obsolete.


Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/21/21 07:54 PM

Originally Posted by randy12972
Bass Pro Shops sold a jig head called a "stinger" that fits your description.



I found a hook, but not a jighead, and the hook has a straight shank, to be added onto the back of another jig hook., could not be used to make a jighead.
Posted By: CHAMPION FISH

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/22/21 01:22 AM

I would like to see one
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/22/21 03:09 AM

this is the way it will look, notice the eye is opposite in direction of basically all other jigheads. I tried bending the eye cold, and they snap. I heated this one up, but it weakens the metal.
with this design, no more gluing the line to the eye, no more pulling the line to the middle of the eye so it will sit level, no more missed fish when you set the hook, because the line is pulling the eye out of the fishes mouth.
No more knicked line because the point of the hook scrapes the line when u tie a loop knot. a loop knot will make the vertical style hook eyes sit level, but when u set the hook, it pulls the loop outward, instead of upward, like the horizontal eye does. [Linked Image]
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 04/30/21 10:15 PM

Have you thought about pouring some jigs with a Mustad 32900 hook just for testing purposes? It's a 60 degree bend hook, but it is made in crappie hook sizes, and looks like it would fit a 90 degree hook mold easily enough, if you deepened the mold hook eye a bit. Here is one overlaid over a Victory hook.

[Linked Image]

The 32900 has the Ultra point, so it's likely the same metal as the Mustad 32746 hooks I use, which are super strong.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 12:08 AM

thanks Bud, I have seen those, but I want a 90 degree angle for the balancing factor as well as hookset action. with the eye angled at 45 degrees, the hook will want to pull more outward than upward when you set the hook, when fishing vertically. the position of the eye also affects how the jig undulates up and down in the water when jigged. at a 90. the back of the jig drops instantly, as the top rises. when fished vertically.
what ive discovered with the 90 degree bend and a horizontal eye set up, the only thing that would need to be done is a slight modification of the mold.. where the eye sits, will need to be drilled out just a tad deeper, maybe 2 MM so the hook can have clearance for the mold to close. it would not affect the mold being able to be used with vertically mounted eyes either. No need to have a custom mold made. you can use up all of the old style hooks and pour jigs with the new style as well.
I am currently in negotiations to have the hooks made. so BOLO for the STICKLE HOOK. "The Stay Level Sickle Hook". TM
After I get the hooks, I will likely pour some myself, and get them out to folks.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 12:25 AM

Bud I looked at my Do - it mold and the mold is slotted for a 90 degree bend hook. the only way it could be modified to work is to fill the existing slot with jb weld, or solder, and recut slots in the mold with a dremel tool to fit the bend in the shank and drill the eye deeper. .
Im sure a custom mold could be made though, Ive heard of blank molds that can be cut at a machine shop, or mold maker.
It will be alot easier to just drill the eye a bit deeper in an existing mold. a 5 minute modification, no money spent and use a 90 degree bend hook.
Im working to get a high quality, nickel plated , low flex hook made at an affordable price. those mustads are great hooks.
I tried just bending a regular hook eye to the horizontal angle and they snap. I tried heating one up as well and it will bend, but when it cools, it becomes brittle and loses strength, and snaps easily.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
thanks Bud, I have seen those, but I want a 90 degree angle for the balancing factor as well as hookset action.

But if the eye is in the right place, and the rest of the bend is pretty much contained within the jig, it doesn't much matter what the bend was. And I suspect those 32900 jigs are strong enough that the bend could be changed a bit, too. I don't mind modifying my round head mold, since I really don't make round head jigs anymore. I was already making a Barlow's order. I'll post a photo when I get a jig made.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 04:30 PM

typically in metallurgy, the stronger the metal is, the more brittle. this goes for hooks, knives, ect. you can have one, or the other, but not both.,. there is a balance. the tempering process usually determines this. I spoke with someone abt the process, and asked why light wire hooks are so flexible compared to other and they told me tempering. Getting a hook just right is quite a task, because of the thickness parameters that must be used. there are many recipes. some closely gaurded secrets in the industry. in respect to the strength of the hook, cost to manufacture plays a large role in what can be made and sold. nobody is going to pay a dollar for a crappie hook, made from an exotic alloy of expensive materials.
I have tried bending the eye on several, and they snap, maybe yours are different. some will bend, but try bending it the other way, simulating a hookset on a big fish, and see what happens, it will break.
The angle of the eye is very important in my opinion for vertical fishing. with the eye at a 45, the jig is simply not going to sit as level in the water as with a 90 degree angle, and when you set the hook, the 45 will tend to pull out of the fishes mouth, rather than upward, especially if your not fishing horizontally. like pitching a jig out.
also as I mentioned the jigging motion will also be different.
Before you modify your mold, maybe try bending a few hooks, then try them out, the eye may not snap off right away, like several of the ones I tried did but may snap off when one of those big 2 lb slabs you catch runs around a bridge column.
in the pic of the jig I posted, the eye snapped inside the head, I just turned the eye horizontally to get the idea across.
you may be better finding a lightwire hook, bending it, then try some tempering,.
if you decide you dont want to spend weeks or months trying to work all of this out, just wait a bit, and the perfect hook will be available to just do a 5 minute mod to your mold, pour it, and have the best crappie fishing hook in the world made for everyone from beginning anglers, to competition anglers who realize the importance of a natural presentation for thier jigs, and with minimal hookflex , wide gap and sharp point to seal the deal while being able to tie a strong knot. that wont get tangled or knicked by point. all increasing the chances of putting more fish and bigger fish in the livewell.
increase strikes, and reduce loss of fish. If this hook helps to catch even 30 percent more fish in a year, its well worth it in my opinion,.
Thank you for taking interest in what im trying to do, it really helps solidifies my belief in the design of the hook im going to produce. I will likely give samples away for testing and would love to send u some, as I respect your opinion. thanks
I will be headed to cedar creek in a couple weeks, to do some fishing, hoping to find some big fish. im yet to catch a 2 lb er.,. very close, but they are rare in central texas, for me anyway. with central texas having mostly white crappie, u would think there would be plenty. our crappie tend to be quite long, like racehorses, but just dont have the girth or retain as much weight. when cleaned the vee in the fillets is almost non existent.
Posted By: Ken Gaby

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 08:11 PM

Reference the bend of the shank and an eye at 45 or 90 degrees to facilitate the hook set: worm hooks for bass fishing have no bend, shank is straight to the eye except for the hooks with an offset to aid in getting the worm straight. Those hooks have the eye bending away from the point. Seems the bass guys don't have a problem with hook sets and straight shanks; even when casting long distances. Crappie minnow hooks have been straight for 100 years. Maybe the hook gap has more to do with the hook set than the direction of the eye.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 08:23 PM

I don't think I would need to bend the 32900 hooks at all to fit my mold. But if I do bend them, I wouldn't try bending at the eye. I'll bend at the bottom of the angle. If you'll check the jig makers forum, you'll see my thread there about Victory hooks. I posted some photos of Mustad 32746 hooks that I had widened the gap on (that's always been my only gripe about those hooks; I like a wider gap, hence my attraction to the Victory/Matsuo hooks). Even after bending to widen the gap, the 32746 hooks still pretty much refused to bend when I hung them up. That is some really strong metal. But I've never had a problem with them breaking, so it's not over-hardened metal, either.

But even if they refuse to bend at the bottom of the angle, you'd still be tying to the center of the eye of a round wire. I wouldn't think 60 degrees would have a lot of effect, as long as that round wire eye is sitting at the correct placement on top of the jig. A knot would center itself, or rotate, the same on an eye that's sitting at 60 degrees or 90 degrees. Perhaps the eye will be far enough above the jig that the location of the eye will be, as you surmise, too far forward. If that's the case, and I can't bend the angle, I'll try the hooks on the pill head jigs I normally use. The hook eyes are much closer to the jig head on them, so an eye sitting too far forward because of the 60 degree bend shouldn't happen.

Your hook inspiration happened at a time when I'm already experimenting with hooks myself, so it's another thing to try. I really like the 32746 hooks, when I'm wanting a stronger hook, especially now that I've learned to widen the gap. But, there are places where I still want a more bendy hook. And I want one that, unlike the Victory or Matsuo hooks, is still a viable hook after it's been bent once, and you have to bend it back. I know hooks like that are out there, but it's been so long since I've used a softer hook other than a Matsuo that I don't remember which ones tolerate re-bending better. And so many of the softer hooks have a curved point, which I really don't like. I enjoy experimenting when jig making, and it will be even more fun testing them out on the lake. It doesn't take much of an excuse to get me out crappie fishing on Cedar Creek. I go a couple of times most weeks.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/01/21 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ken Gaby
Reference the bend of the shank and an eye at 45 or 90 degrees to facilitate the hook set: worm hooks for bass fishing have no bend, shank is straight to the eye except for the hooks with an offset to aid in getting the worm straight. Those hooks have the eye bending away from the point. Seems the bass guys don't have a problem with hook sets and straight shanks; even when casting long distances. Crappie minnow hooks have been straight for 100 years. Maybe the hook gap has more to do with the hook set than the direction of the eye.


I believe you are correct, in instances when you are not fishing vertically, , it doesnt matter as much, but most crappie fisherman usually do fish mostly vertically.
the bass sector is also getting in on the eye, check out CROSS EYEZ jighead. but it too sits at a 45 degree angle to the shank.
Bass fisherman have many different ways to fish different baits, such as octopus hooks for drop shotting, true turn hooks for worms, . super wide gap hooks for flukes, from an 18 inch worm to a 2 inch coffee tube. the list goes on forever. as crappie fisherman we either put a one to 3 inch plastic jig on it, or tie some feathers on it.
comparing a bass fishermans hooks to crappie fishermans is really comparing apples to oranges, just way to different. most bass fisherman who fish vertically use slab spoons in deeper water. 95 percent of thier presentation is a cast and retrieve.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/02/21 07:07 PM

One of the reasons I'd like to test this style hook is that most of my crappie fishing is no longer vertical fishing, it's casting. But even when swimming crappie jigs, the retrieve is so slow, I still think that hook eye needs to be in the same place as when vertical fishing. I'll be comparing eye placement of these new hooks with other jigs I've made to see if I get it the same. One of the questions I have is: how well will a jig keep itself horizontal during a retrieve with this eye orientation versus a conventional jig? It makes me wish I could watch retrieves in a big tank to compare.

I also wonder if small braided line will still be as prone to escaping the hook eye through the eye gap if a loop knot is used with this style hook.
Posted By: BJH ( JUST JIGGING)

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/02/21 07:54 PM

Yeah !!!!! Let's reinvent the Wheel!!! hammer
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/03/21 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by BJH ( JUST JIGGING)
Yeah !!!!! Let's reinvent the Wheel!!! hammer

Let's be thankful the wheel went through some improvements. That stone wheel might ride a little rough on the highways.
Posted By: Brent's Dad

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/03/21 04:57 AM

I am 70 years of age, been fishing for 60 years. First 30 years bass fishing, last 30 years crappie fishing. I guess you can call me a cross breed fisherman. Can’t honestly say that I have experience the issue that Is trying to be resolved or improved upon here. The only time I have experienced a hook set issue is when the hook eye is not aligned with the hook point or the hook gap is wrong. Each can be easily fixed with a needle noise pliers. Until I experience a hook set problem, I don’t believe I will find a need for a new improved hook that Mr. Leaning Post is developing here. When developed and is proven to be the best hook ever, I doubt that I will discard the many 100s of jigs I own now to resolve a problem I don’t have. Not bashing the idea, fishing tackle improvement is always good. And if I deplete my current stash of jigs/hooks, I see no reason not to try the Leaning Post design.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/03/21 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Brent's Dad
I am 70 years of age, been fishing for 60 years. First 30 years bass fishing, last 30 years crappie fishing. I guess you can call me a cross breed fisherman. Can’t honestly say that I have experience the issue that Is trying to be resolved or improved upon here. The only time I have experienced a hook set issue is when the hook eye is not aligned with the hook point or the hook gap is wrong. Each can be easily fixed with a needle noise pliers. Until I experience a hook set problem, I don’t believe I will find a need for a new improved hook that Mr. Leaning Post is developing here. When developed and is proven to be the best hook ever, I doubt that I will discard the many 100s of jigs I own now to resolve a problem I don’t have. Not bashing the idea, fishing tackle improvement is always good. And if I deplete my current stash of jigs/hooks, I see no reason not to try the Leaning Post design.

I am also 70. I switched from mostly bass fishing to mostly crappie fishing a bit more recent than you, 15 years ago. And as many fish as I catch, I really don't need to change anything. But, there will always be those of us who like to tinker. That's why there will always be new innovations coming along. People can choose to use those new innovations, or not. I, for example, have nothing but cheap electronics on my boat, and haven't seen the need or had to urge to upgrade to what so many anglers now think they can no longer live without. To each his own.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/05/21 08:21 PM

I believe fishing has alot to do with human instincts, Ive seen folks with great boats, sonar, equiptment , but they just cant figure it out,. they are not tuned in to nature and rely on reports of where a guy caught fish yesterday.

300 years ago man fished with fishhooks made of bone and thorn, then something better came along, iron.
centuries later, tempering, forging and alloys, then plating. all of this came to be because we are always trying to improve the effectiveness of the tools we use. new technology always opens doors for improvements across many spectrum's.
Sometimes improvements are hiding in plain sight, because we tend to think that it must not be a good idea, because nobody else has not done it yet, and just continue to use the same old same old.
some folks are initiators, some imitators. its just how it is.
Time will tell if my idea is a worthwhile endeavor. I am getting alot of positive feedback from peoples whose opinion I value. with the covid situation the hobby of fishing is at an all time high, over 8 million new fisherman and woman above last years average, so its a great time to put out new tackle. cheers
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/06/21 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bud B
Originally Posted by BJH ( JUST JIGGING)
Yeah !!!!! Let's reinvent the Wheel!!! hammer

Let's be thankful the wheel went through some improvements. That stone wheel might ride a little rough on the highways.



yes, not many people are still driving thier great grandfathers model T anymore. and nobody is making them. when they were made they were revolutionary, now they are considered crude, inefficient, unsafe . unreliable dinosaurs. If it wasnt for people who challenged the status quo, its good enough already mindset, we may still be driving them., hammer
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/06/21 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Brent's Dad
I am 70 years of age, been fishing for 60 years. First 30 years bass fishing, last 30 years crappie fishing. I guess you can call me a cross breed fisherman. Can’t honestly say that I have experience the issue that Is trying to be resolved or improved upon here. The only time I have experienced a hook set issue is when the hook eye is not aligned with the hook point or the hook gap is wrong. Each can be easily fixed with a needle noise pliers. Until I experience a hook set problem, I don’t believe I will find a need for a new improved hook that Mr. Leaning Post is developing here. When developed and is proven to be the best hook ever, I doubt that I will discard the many 100s of jigs I own now to resolve a problem I don’t have. Not bashing the idea, fishing tackle improvement is always good. And if I deplete my current stash of jigs/hooks, I see no reason not to try the Leaning Post design.



thanks for your thoughts, let me ask you what type of knot do you tie to keep the jig level in the water with the vertical eyed hooks u use now? unless u tie a loop knot, its not sitting level. so your either missing ALOT of fish because they wont hit it do to sitting vertically in the water, or your constantly adjusting the knot position.
the only remedy for this is glue, which is messy, weakens the line because it makes it brittle, and gives off chemicals that may turn crappie away. OR the loop knot, which is a dicey knot. if you dont tie it so the loop is close to the eye, it will tangle in the hook point, or knick the line, it also has 2 points of potential failure instead of one,.
last when u set the hook, the eye slides on the knot causing abrasions. The eye lets are not micro polished, they are tumbled mostly and polishing the inside of the eye would take alot of extra work.
Let me ask you, how do you know how many fish you are missing, if you have never tried something better? Do you hook and land every fish almost every time? If u do, dont change a thing.
I think alot of the reasoning for some folks not liking the idea, is because they have 100s of vertical style hooks on hand, and feel like they will become obsolete if they find that my jighook is better., wasted money.
I have thousands of the vertical style hooks on hand, so I understand this feeling, but theres plenty of people to sell them to right now, there is a tackle shortage. or make a kids week by giving them away.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/07/21 06:36 PM

I have discovered another benefit to having the horizontally faced eye today, when you tie a double jig rig, for fishing bridge pilings or deeper structure, the jig stands outward from the line, in a natural, horizontal position. less likely to tangle in the main line and easier for a crappie to eat it. I like to peg a split shot in between the 2 jigs, to keep the whole rig from tangling. I also tie a lighter jig on the top instead of bottom, to keep the weight heavier towards the bottom to prevent tangles.
I also sometimes do a set up called the triple threat, 3 different jigs with a split shot in between them at abt 14 inches apart on a long rod. it is a quick way to find out what depth the fish are hanging in and if theyy are prefering a certain color,or profile
in saltwater baitfishing, ive seen something similar called the Sabiki rig.
Posted By: Ken Gaby

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/08/21 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
I have discovered another benefit to having the horizontally faced eye today, when you tie a double jig rig, for fishing bridge pilings or deeper structure, the jig stands outward from the line, in a natural, horizontal position. less likely to tangle in the main line and easier for a crappie to eat it. I like to peg a split shot in between the 2 jigs, to keep the whole rig from tangling. I also tie a lighter jig on the top instead of bottom, to keep the weight heavier towards the bottom to prevent tangles.
I also sometimes do a set up called the triple threat, 3 different jigs with a split shot in between them at abt 14 inches apart on a long rod. it is a quick way to find out what depth the fish are hanging in and if theyy are prefering a certain color,or profile
in saltwater baitfishing, ive seen something similar called the Sabiki rig.


Do you have pics of the jig standing outward from the line? This is very intriguing.
Posted By: JSouther

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/08/21 11:01 PM

Put me in n the list I need some!
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/09/21 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by Ken Gaby
Originally Posted by leanin post
I have discovered another benefit to having the horizontally faced eye today, when you tie a double jig rig, for fishing bridge pilings or deeper structure, the jig stands outward from the line, in a natural, horizontal position. less likely to tangle in the main line and easier for a crappie to eat it. I like to peg a split shot in between the 2 jigs, to keep the whole rig from tangling. I also tie a lighter jig on the top instead of bottom, to keep the weight heavier towards the bottom to prevent tangles.
I also sometimes do a set up called the triple threat, 3 different jigs with a split shot in between them at abt 14 inches apart on a long rod. it is a quick way to find out what depth the fish are hanging in and if theyy are prefering a certain color,or profile
in saltwater baitfishing, ive seen something similar called the Sabiki rig.


Do you have pics of the jig standing outward from the line? This is very intriguing.

I can take one .
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/09/21 02:50 AM

hopefully this helps, no magic tricks, photoshops, no reverse gravity emulator, just simple physics.
this is tie on with a basic reverse clinch knot. [Linked Image]
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/09/21 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by JSouther
Put me in n the list I need some!



I appreciate your interest and will be sending testing jigs out when I get them, the interest has been incredible!! thank you.! cheers
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/09/21 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by TroyKing
I like the idea of a horizontal eye... but I'm through with sickle hooks.



dont deep six the sickle just yet. ive been working with hook manufacturers and was told that the sickle , made the correct way, is very strong, the problem is inconsistency. The company im speaking with uses German steel, the best in the world, and have thier machines made by japanese companies. I myself have had very strong sickle hooks, and some very weak. its like a [censored] shoot, u never know what you will get. Im trying to change that. theres alot to it, and getting a strong hook, while keeping a desirable thickness diameter is challenging, but not impossible.
I want a hook with reliable consistency, so I always know what to expect, everytime.
how many times have we stuck a hook on a big fish and the hook bent, we just dont know.
I like to set my drag so that with a spirited hookset, it gives a bit, but I fish with several people who like to lock thier drag down.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/10/21 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by Bud B
One of the reasons I'd like to test this style hook is that most of my crappie fishing is no longer vertical fishing, it's casting. But even when swimming crappie jigs, the retrieve is so slow, I still think that hook eye needs to be in the same place as when vertical fishing. I'll be comparing eye placement of these new hooks with other jigs I've made to see if I get it the same. One of the questions I have is: how well will a jig keep itself horizontal during a retrieve with this eye orientation versus a conventional jig? It makes me wish I could watch retrieves in a big tank to compare.

I also wonder if small braided line will still be as prone to escaping the hook eye through the eye gap if a loop knot is used with this style hook.

Bud those are excellent questions, my thoughts on how the jig will travel thru the water is that with the eye facing horizontal, you may get more action, due to the eye creating a bit of resistance going thru the water, causing a slower fall,, it may even cause a slight wobbling action, As we all know especially in windy conditions, when the wave action is rough, pitching a jig out from cover and letting it pendulum over brush is highly effective, when fishing vertically wont garner a strike, I believe the fish station themselves on the slack side of cover and structure, and wait for something to come swimming by to ambush. for me, most times this is the only way I can get a strike when the waves are bucking the front of my boat around,

as far as a loop knot, there is no need to ever use them with this hook, they are in my opinion the worst knot you can tie. if the eye of the hook is properly formed there should not be a gap in the eye big enough for the line to slide through, and as u mentioned the knot will naturally want to stay in the center of the eye due to its orientation... . is there any other reason whatsoever that you tie a loop knot other than to try and make the jig sit level?
I cant think of one.
knowing that the loop knot is an inferior knot, in the application being used, but knowing it helps the jig sit level is what brought me to this desire to fix this situation.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/10/21 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
as far as a loop knot, there is no need to ever use them with this hook, they are in my opinion the worst knot you can tie. if the eye of the hook is properly formed there should not be a gap in the eye big enough for the line to slide through, and as u mentioned the knot will naturally want to stay in the center of the eye due to its orientation... . is there any other reason whatsoever that you tie a loop knot other than to try and make the jig sit level?
I cant think of one.
knowing that the loop knot is an inferior knot, in the application being used, but knowing it helps the jig sit level is what brought me to this desire to fix this situation.


If a knot is cinched down on an eye, I don't see how a jig can be expected to always stay horizontal, with pull on the line from different directions. If you cinch the knot down with the line facing forward, the jig would be horizontal while you're retrieving it, but not as it gets more directly underneath you. If you cinch it down with the line facing straight up, the jig wouldn't be horizontal with a horizontal retrieve, would it? That's why loop knots have such favor with crappie anglers. The line might rotate easier on this new jig than it would slide on a conventional crappie jig, but it seems to me it would still interfere with keeping a jig horizontal.

If you use 10 pound braid like I do, even an inferior knot like a non-slip loop knot is more than I can break without wrapping the line around a wooden dowel so I can get a hard enough pull to break it or bend the hook. I carry a sawed-off end of a broomstick just for this purpose. Besides its strength, the thing I love about braid is its small diameter. That lets a swimming jig get deeper with the same retrieve. But you'd be amazed at how small a gap small braid can get through. Even with hooks where I can't see a gap in the eye with a magnifying glass, small braid still manages to flatten enough to get through. I've taken to using a palomar knot when I tie directly to a single jig, just to avoid this problem. And powder paint just chips out of the way, so it doesn't stop braid from escaping. I'm going to try some vinyl paint to see if that does better, but I'm also going to compare with just using palomar knots instead, on the new jig.

I'm also in experiment mode on the two jig rigs. Where I can use them, they seem to draw a lot more bites for me. But when swimming a two jig rig, 90 percent of the bites always seem to be on the bottom jig, so I'm going to try just replacing the top jig with a split shot in situations where I'm prone to hang up a lot, and see if that draws close to as many bites. I've always figured it was the action of the two jigs tied together, rather than the fish seeing two jigs. Now that I swim jigs so much more than just fishing them vertically, it seems like a good time to experiment with split shots.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/10/21 08:47 PM

I finally got my order from Barlows. It took 9 days for them to get my order from Richardson to Gun Barrel City. That's far and away longer than I've ever waited for an order from Barlows in the past. The 32900 hooks aren't as similar to the 32746 hooks as I thought. The 32746 hooks have forged wire and a needle point, where the 32900 hooks have standard Mustad wire and their classic point. The point is still plenty sharp though, and they are about the same size. Here they are, side by side.

[Linked Image]

Bending the 32900 to 90 degrees wasn't a problem. I don't know how much that may have weakened the hook, but since the weakened spot will be in the middle of the jig head, I suspect that won't be a problem. Only some testing will tell. After you bend the 32900, it is, of course, shorter than the 32746.

[Linked Image]

Here are jigs made with both. These are 1/16 oz jigs with a size 2 hook (I prefer size 2 hooks on a 1/16 oz jig, rather than the prescribed size 4 hooks). It looks like the balance will be similar. I may test them out tomorrow, if storms don't keep me off the lake.

[Linked Image]
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/10/21 10:08 PM

looking forward to your results. im thinking the lead will firm the bend up a bit, but there will still be some flexing of the metal inside the head. keep in mind, hooks are tempered after they are shaped. if your going to try this route, ive heard that lead tire weights have more iron content than the softer lead used for tackle, maybe it will keep the hook from flexing more? most tire shops are happy to give buckets of old weights away.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/10/21 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
looking forward to your results. im thinking the lead will firm the bend up a bit, but there will still be some flexing of the metal inside the head. keep in mind, hooks are tempered after they are shaped. if your going to try this route, ive heard that lead tire weights have more iron content than the softer lead used for tackle, maybe it will keep the hook from flexing more? most tire shops are happy to give buckets of old weights away.

I don't do lead. The metal in my jig heads doesn't flex. It's a bismuth/tin alloy.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/11/21 08:21 PM

I got out and tested the new jig out this morning. As expected, storms chased me off the lake early this afternoon, but the bite was good this morning. Today wasn't by any means, exhaustive testing, but it was enough to give me a first impression.

First, a little about how I fish. I'm usually shooting a jig (or two). Even if it's not dock fishing or some other shooting situation, I still shoot. After 50 years of heavy machine shop work, my shoulders are cratered. I've learned that by shooting, rather than casting, I can fish all day and not wake up with my shoulders hurting the next morning.

When I shoot, I grasp the jig head, with the hook straight out to the side. That accomplishes two purposes. (1) It keeps the hook away from my fingers, so I never get hooked as I shoot the jig, and (2) if I'm using a palomar knot, as I pull back the jig, it automatically moves the knot to the top of the hook eye, right where it belongs. I don't have to do that separately, or even think about it.

I did use this jig with a palomar knot this morning. I was swimming a jig 16 feet deep, so I used a split shot above the jig. That does do a nice job of letting a 1/16 oz jig swim really slowly at that depth, and I caught fish on it. I noticed as I was shooting the jig that the knot seemed to be close to the top of the eye even before I pulled the jig back, moreso than with other jigs, so my first impression is that this jig does do a good job of accomplishing its stated goal of keeping the knot where it belongs. I may switch to this type jig in all situations where I tie a palomar knot directly to the jig.

But I ended up re-tying to my favorite two jig rig, to give the jig some time there too, and it worked great. As much as I like that rig, I don't think that's going to change because of this jig, but it's nice to know that if I decide to just use this jig everywhere, it works fine on my two jig rig, too. My two jig rig consists of a double eye 1/24 oz jig on top, and (usually) a 1/16 oz jig on the bottom. I posted about how I make that double eye jig in the jig making section, if anyone is curious about it. I've switched to better swivels since that post, but other than that, the jig hasn't changed. I just tie palomar knots to both eyes of the jig. The rig, itself, keeps the knots where they need to be, and the jig level, so there's no messing with that, and this jig fouls less than any top jig I've ever used in a two jig rig.

If you are tying to both eyes of a double eye jig, there's no reason not to use different lines on the top and bottom, and I do. I use Seaguar Blue Label 12 lb test fluorocarbon leader between the jigs. For a between jig leader, Blue Label 12 lb really checks all the boxes. It's so stiff it keeps the jigs apart better and fouls less than regular line. It's even more abrasion resistant than braid. It's a big enough diameter that it will never escape through the eye gap of a jig hook like braid does, and it's stong enough that even a non-slip loop knot will usually hold up all day. And if you're fishing clear water and concerned about line visibility, even 12 lb test fluorocarbon disappears in the water.


I wasn't in a situation where I was hanging these jigs up, so seeing what happens when I do will have to wait for another day, but so far, I really like these Mustad 32900 hooks.

[Linked Image]


Here's the two jig rig I favor. Usually, that bottom jig is a pill head jig too.

[Linked Image]


This jig really got a workout today. That frayed plastic tells the tale. And as I suspected, bending the hook didn't keep it from holding up fine in my bismuth/tin jig.

[Linked Image]


Modifying a mold to accommodate these hooks is easy. Just find a drill bit the same diameter as the hook eye indention in the mold. Use a center punch to get the bit centered in the eye indention, then drill the indention a little deeper. The mold will accept either style of hook after that with no difference in performance.

On a related matter, I've ordered a Do-It Midwestern Finesse Jig mold. Has anyone used one of those? It's intended for Ned rigging for bass, and I'll do some of that with it, but I want to try it for crappie jigs, too. It claims to accept size 2 hooks, so it's not too big for crappie. It has a wire keeper that I'd like to try out with my plastics. Ned rigging is one of the few bass fishing rigs where the users actually tie a loop knot, so these hooks might be a good alternative in that mold, too. Most bass fishermen use size 1 or 1/0 hooks for this jig, so availability of this style hook in those sizes would be nice, too.

Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/11/21 10:31 PM

Bud, great report. I have a couple of the double eye jigs a friend gave me, not sure where he got them but they are fantastic for double rigs. !
why the swivel on the line going to the bottom, swivels allow jigs and lures to spin.usually not what you want, does it automatically orient to the correct position?
I like to peg a split shot in between my double rigs, it keeps it very tangle free.
Keep the reports coming, thanks!
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/11/21 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
Bud, great report. I have a couple of the double eye jigs a friend gave me, not sure where he got them but they are fantastic for double rigs. !
why the swivel on the line going to the bottom, swivels allow jigs and lures to spin.usually not what you want, does it automatically orient to the correct position?
I like to peg a split shot in between my double rigs, it keeps it very tangle free.
Keep the reports coming, thanks!

I used a swivel because that's what I had that worked. If I'd had a simple wire form, I would have used that, but the swivel works fine. A swivel doesn't spin unless something causes it to spin.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/12/21 03:47 PM

someone makes or made that wire form you could use, I will try to find one in my tackle room that im speaking of, it has an eye on the top and bottom. works great.

as far as what could cause the jig to spin, resistance in the water could cause it to spin, as it does other lures attached to a swivel, I see folks with crankbaits attached to swivels, and wonder what are they thinking,,, A crankbait will spin in the water and twist your line.. under tension the swivel doesnt spin as well as it does when not pulled tight. all it is is wire ends crimped in a barrel... no bearing, no oil, just brass rubbing against brass. or stainless steel rubbing against itself... It would be interesting to see what happens in a swimming pool when the rig is retrieved in deep water. It may not be spinning at all, or it may spin more than your thinking,.
This is why we test these things, things are not always as they seem.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/12/21 04:23 PM

https://www.tacklewarehouse.com/OMT...oB71SfxHNVSENQxmTkbn9CzqJHxoCpj0QAvD_BwE
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/12/21 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
I see folks with crankbaits attached to swivels, and wonder what are they thinking,,, A crankbait will spin in the water and twist your line...


Huh? That makes no sense. If a crankbait was spinning below a swivel, the swivel would make your line twist less, not more. That's kind of the entire intent of a swivel, to keep something that's spinning from causing twist further up the line. They are usually of limited help, because they're not going to stop nearly all the line twist from happening. If you put them somewhere where there's no spin induced by something else, they don't spin. Bottom line, even if something did make my bottom jig spin, the swivel on the double eye jig would actually help keep that spin from twisting the top jig and the line above that. I don't know where this creative physics of yours is coming from, but I'm telling you right here, you're dead wrong. I usually get my jigs rigged so that they induce very little spin anyway, so I didn't see any need for a swivel on the top jig. But having one there is a plus, not a negative.

A swivel causing line twist rather than helping stop it? That's the craziest thing I've heard since..........wait, I'm not saying.
Posted By: Bud B

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/12/21 07:42 PM


Those double eye jigs are far too big. Most of them you find anywhere are much larger than the 1/24 oz I make. The smallest one at that link is over four times the weight of mine. There's no way you'd want that as the top jig with a little 1/16 oz jig underneath. The only place I've seen double eye jigs as small as mine is Grizzly Jigs. They used to have a 1/32 oz one, but I don't even see that one on their site any more. I make all my own jigs anyway.

Everyone ties two jig rigs their own way. That's fine. I didn't mean to sidetrack this entire thread with mine. I only mentioned it because I ended up testing this new jig with it. Mine does work better than anything else I've seen. If I was still selling tackle, I'd be pushing it for sure (and wouldn't have posted exactly how to make it in the jig making forum). But I only make tackle for myself these days. If I still wanted to work, I know of much easier ways to earn money. When I was trying to keep up with shipping tackle to others, I wasn't enjoying making it nearly as much as I do now.
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/13/21 01:19 PM

I dont think you would have anything to worry abt by posting your method on a crappie fishing jig makers site.. 98 percent of all crappie fisherman do not make thier own jigs, they buy them, working with lead is very dangerous, let a drop of sweat fall into the melting pot and see what happens. it explodes.. and also the toxic fumes.. we are a minute portion of consumers.
Also you would have intellectual property rights to your idea, methods ect if you decided you wanted to make them exclusively, provided it met all of the criteria.
Take my idea, ive done extensive research on patents, trademarks, ect on my name The Stickle Hook TM. The design, everything, nobody makes it or made it yet.
With the interest that is being generated, is thier a good chance I could be copy catted, yes..
It is human nature to take someone elses idea, and try to profit from it when the almighty dollar is to be made.
If this project materializes, and goes worldwide, I wont be making runs to my local post office..
I will either set up a distribution and marketing hub, or sell the idea outright.,
Also sometimes Ideas have hidden value, heres an example. lets say Eagle Claw corp. who has the lions share of the hook market has a big decrease in sales of the hooks they make now, due to a better design, what are they going to do with millions of hooks nobody has interest in anymore? Many times large corporations will buy inventors out, sit on the idea, until they deplete thier current inventories.
My priority is to get my idea out to the world, and also be compensated for my ideas.
Most of the great ideas that come to fruition, come from a common man, tinkering in thier garage, trying to make a product that THEY use, better.
Posted By: Asleep At The Reel

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/16/21 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by leanin post
anyone here manufacture hooks for crappie jigs?
I have an idea for a hook I would like made..
basically a sickle style hook, with the eye oriented horizontal to the shank.

THE STICKEL HOOK .. STICKEL ..... the STAY LEVEL SICKLE HOOK.... TM


Been following this post, both pages! When you get this, I would love to know and try some out. That would make a good show for the youtube channel. I really like the idea you have!
Posted By: leanin post

Re: THE STICKLE HOOK - 05/18/21 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by Asleep At The Reel
Originally Posted by leanin post
anyone here manufacture hooks for crappie jigs?
I have an idea for a hook I would like made..
basically a sickle style hook, with the eye oriented horizontal to the shank.

THE STICKEL HOOK .. STICKEL ..... the STAY LEVEL SICKLE HOOK.... TM


Been following this post, both pages! When you get this, I would love to know and try some out. That would make a good show for the youtube channel. I really like the idea you have!

thanks brother, im working with hook manufacturers right now,
. a company is hand making a batch for me, if I like them, the minimum order is 100.000. before I pull the trigger, I want to be sure they meet my specs. They sent me some sample hooks of the old style just to see if I liked the diameter, sharpness, strength, ect,. and I am quite impressed, sharpest, strongest crappie hooks ive ever had.
I will likely start with a number 2 hook. then a number 4... we are experimenting with designs, such as a slightly longer shank for the number 4 hooks. the way they are made now, the hook point is a bit too close to the eye in my opinion.
The hook manufacturers in working with have over 60 years combined experience. and they understand what im trying to do. hopefully in the coming months, we can have a run made. I will be glad to send out samples to folks to try.
As crappie fisherman, we have many things to figure out when we get on the water.
wondering if having a hook that is sitting level. strong, sharp, consistent is not going to be a concern anymore.
will the hooks be bendable, or breakable, yes, with enough force anything can be bent or broken.
What we are doing is making the best possible hook in the parameters that we have to work in.
Many fisherman tend to be galvanized in thier way of thinking, and have trouble making changes, but innovative, open minded people such as yourself, get it. our generation sees how design changes and improvements can change things dramatically.
we went from paper sonar graphs to livescope in a very short time, handle operated trolling motors to spotlock.
The most important thing though hook and presentation, , the part of our quest to entice, hook, and land crappie in the boat has been stagnant for over 50 years. !!
The vertically positioned eye bothered me for years. WHY are they still made this way, I asked myself over and over and could not think of a good reason, still havent.
My thinking is that it all started with a perch hook.. hanging vertically in the water is fine. we put a worm, maggot, piece of shrimp , ect on the hook, and dropped it down. then folks just copied it for crappie.. made a slightly larger version,. then, along came the weighted jighead, so the hook shank was bent 90 degrees to help keep the lead in place. all improvements.
The critical orientation of the eye, though, was never a consideration and most anglers and manufacturers didnt pay attention .
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