Uvalde Shooter - The Facts

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robb_Elementary_School_shooting

ok

Maybe, maybe not. Wiki is not a source for facts.

I trust “facts” from Cliff or Carl more than Wikipedia.

Not sure I would classify a Wikipedia article as “the facts” but rather as a current summary of the official public information releases and background information. This article is guaranteed to be altered over the next few weeks as the investigation gathers more of the actual facts, but Wikipedia cannot be relied upon to provide middle of the road perspective on anything

Lotsa Wiki opinion and political slant in the article.

Word.

"the shooter was bullied"....who wasn't?

NO CAP

Whether you like Wiki or not most subjects are filled with references that they use. You can also fact check details with your own sources.
It gives you clues.

Bullying today is not like when we were younger. Back then you could walk away from it , now it will follow you online everywhere and folks can be relentless online.

And? Does that mean you would shoot up a room full of children? Is that how they do it in Wyoming?

He did not say that nor do I or you think he meant it.
He said the guy was bullied. From reading about it numerous times for a speech impediment.
No, not all or even many respond like that but it does become a factor.


So, would you exclude that bullying from being a factor that a professional use to evaluate a kid?
I would leave that to a them but it sounds plausible.

Yes, and Cliff and Carl are as far from truth as possible.

It might to a person with mental issues and I'm sure that's proven to be true already.

Amen. No consequences.

Maybe he was harassed because he dressed up like a girl. If you’re going to act like a freak, kids will treat you like a freak.

and he spent $3500.00 on weapons and ammo....

I have seen people talking about his trans personality and seen some grainy pictures that might be him or might not, but I have not seen anything that is proven. Did I miss it, or is it just the internet doing it’s thing?

News radio report is where I heard it. I suppose everyone is just making it up, but why???

Only thing for sure I have seen is one of his friends said he put on makeup and got made fun of.

Raise the age to 21 to buy a weapon. Just like cigs. Few 21 year olds are still in school. Increase security. Quit fire drills that puts the whole school outside. Figure something else out there. Show a presence of force on occasion but keep it undercloth during normal hours. Create lock sections that will keep a perp from moving further. Watch social media for clues. Listen to the kids. They know. Addressible ID badges for all. Increase security presence. Do not expect teachers to be security personnel. They weren't trained for it. Hire professionals and pay them well. They are protecting our children.

I could agree with that

So will you also raise the minimum enlistment age to 21? Doesn't make sense to send our 18-20 year old's off to war if they can't shoot

Buy a gun to 21.

I was in the service. We were trained. Most 18 year olds are not.

That’s all heading in the right direction.

Those would all help for the immediate future.

Can we change the age to vote to 35 while we are at it?

Some of his "friends" also said he cut up his face with a knife "just for fun" , so many red flags.

His face is a red flag for me.

Not sure if you are serious but I agree if you are. I mean you can’t buy a beer at 18 but you can buy a firearm as long as it is not a pistol. I do not see that logic.

Believe it or not but you can still enlist at 17

I know. I came awfully close

I'm not sure that kids making fun of a boy dressing up as a girl is text book Bullying. You gonna have a hard time putting a stop to that.

Stop normalizing a mental illness for starters.

I was taught how to shoot at a very young age. I think about 7-8 years old with a 22 rifle. I was shooting shotguns squirrel hunting about 10 years old. We had our shotguns and deer rifles hanging in our trucks at school never heard anyone state they wanted to go get a gun and shoot up our school. We also had no interest in dressing up like a girl or getting a trophy for just running the race. We worked hard to be better then others running to get a trophy that mean something.

This.

This, I dont see this as a Bullying, I dont see it as a gun problem. I see it as a criminally sick individual. 99.9999 percent of gun owners never do anything like this, 99.9999 percent of people who were at one time or another bullied as a youth never do anything like this. There are a few nut jobs walking the earth and it's probably impossible to weed them out or really identify them prior to them doing something ridiculous and evil. I see this as a failure of schools to secure themselves. Guards, trained armed personnel, fences, locking it down, whatever it takes. And I dont think the Burden falls solely on the schools, local police department and sheriff departments need to contribute to the efforts as well.

Yep.

What is the total number shot?
Was it a homeland officer that shot him?

Is buying beer a constitutional right?

Not to say your wrong but let's dig in to what your saying. Why are we blaming social media? Why aren't we being better about teaching kids or restricting access to that stuff? Saying all that I think it boils down to one thing, sin. We are sinful people and if we want to see the change happen it has to start with the heart first. It's no coincidence that the further we move from God the more evil we become.

I got my [censored] kicked and thrown in the bushes at Pt's one time ...

I’m reading some reports that local officer were outside, not going in while parents yelled at them to help.
They waited on a border patrol unit to go inside???

Allison, I'm pretty sure the he you are referring to is a she. just saying.
As far as bullying, I believe wytex is spot on. I think there have been quite a few young girls who committed suicide because of online bullying. It's a shame the psycho who killed all those kids didn't off himself instead. I don't understand how you can get put in facebook jail for 30 days for trying to help someone find homes for some puppies but that kid made 3 facebook posts that were clear warnings that no one thought to alert anyone about.

Excellent suggestions.

Right now, there are so many stories out there, none of us know what happened yet.
Probably going to have to wait a while to get the truth................
This media whirlwind of blowhards is another huge problem in today's society.

I'm probably going to get crucified for this but, a lot of this started when we took God and allegiance out of the schools. We took the Good Book and it's teachings of the golden rules, out of fundamental learning. It's been brewing for decades. Instead of teaching "Thou shalt not kill" (and the others) in kindergarten through ??? grade, the rules have changed to "it's OK if uncle Joe wants to touch you there and your pee pee should be a vajay jay." Like someone mentioned earlier, you don't see this in private schools. You don't see this in religious schools. You see this in public schools that politicians control with YOUR tax money. And it shows in every demographic.

In order to do this I think you have to raise the age of becoming an adult to 21. Again, the issue is you are comparing privileges to rights. Gun ownership is a right, voting is a right, smoking cigarettes, drinking, driving are privileges, and hence the government can arbitrarily choose ages at which it’s legal to do so. Making the age to own a handgun 21 arguably skirts the constitution given it restricts legal adults right to bear arms to some extent.

Raising the purchase age to 21 for firearms isn't a bad idea. Parents could still get their kids a firearm and then be responsible for it until the kid turned 21. Kid commits a school shooting or other crime with that gun, lock the parents up. Kind of forces the parents to, well, be parents. There is nothing in the Constitution about Adults owning or buying guns. So why 18 instead of 21?

Do you believe a legal adult should be arbitrarily denied constitutional rights? And should parents be responsible for the actions of their adult children?

I am serious. This won't deny them the ability to hunt or hit the range. They just can't own or possess a gun when not in the company of an adult over 21. Just a sensible step. Have a sunset on the law where it needs to be renewed every four years.

While you guys are at it, why not just go ahead and make the age to obtain a drivers license 21? There have been numerous drunk sub 21 year olds get into a vehicle and cause a wreck that killed others. We had a local 17 year old get a DWI here just two weeks ago, the under 21 law didn't make any difference in this situation. Until our DA's and Judges in the court systems quit not prosecuting cases and handing out light punishments, nobody is in fear for their actions. Its time for each state to open the express lane on the death chamber.

Either you're an adult at 18 or not. If not, make the minimum age for the military 21.

You are not an adult at 18. You have the option to volunteer for the military. You are not forced to sign up. Some go to trade school, some go to college, some go to work, some join the military and some live in mom's house. They still have choices.

That makes zero sense john. Force has nothing to do with it. Legally you are an adult. As such you should enjoy every privileges given to older adults.

I find it odd that they mention he started dressing in black kn the wiki page but no mention of his cross dressing......

Raise the age to 21 to buy any semi-automatic weapon, and make an exception for anyone in law enforcement or the military to buy them at 18.

Calling an 18 year an adult these days also makes zero sense Bob. Brains aren't even fully developed until you are about 25. 18 is arbitrary. Some kids are ready at 18, many these days are not. This 18 year old didn't even know how to drive. So we either need to make them prove they are an adult, or come to some sort of a middle ground and pick 21. Also, as you know, the 2nd amendment makes no statement on the age to bear arms.

Too broad. Many hunting rifles and shotguns are semi automatic. No one uses them in mass shootings. Heck, a ruger 10/22 is one of the most popular youth rifle. Never seen one used in a mass shooting.

30 years ago 18 was an adult , expected to find their way in the world responsibly and productively.



This kid is a product of today’s parent that literally does zero to nurture and develop and when as a teen they are “troubled” they blame the authorities vs looking at a mirror.

That is the epidemic of the USA

I don't agree with John on much, but as he pointed out, nobody is saying a kid can't hunt, they are saying that kid can't buy that gun. An adult would have to buy it and then either be with them or be criminally responsible for its use.

Has where he bought the guns been published?

Was it Walmart or Academy or a pawn shop , curious is all not sure it bares any direction

Below 18 I'm good with that, but not past.

Lack a parental leadership and supervision.

Just saw on TV it was at the Oasis

There are 13 year old criminals running around with firearms. If someone wants to raise hell, they will raise hell regardless of laws.

not a single suggestion about fortifying schools, that has been mentioned here, would have stopped this dude.

I don’t understand how restriction of age or restrictions of assault weapons will help at all.
If someone is capable of this, they are going to find a way to get the weapons they want somehow no matter the restrictions.
Kinda like he said in The Big Lebowski. “ it’s LA dude, you want a toe, I can get you a toe in 30 minutes. You want it painted, I can get one that’s painted”

I just looked at the detailed data on K-12 school shootings over the last 30 years. 85% of cases the shooters were under the age of 21. In 100% of cases, the guns were either swiped from friends/family or legally purchased. (Zero cases of these guns coming from the black market or being stolen from strangers). 100% of the weapons used were semiautomatic.

So on paper raising the purchase age to 21 and making parents criminally liable for unsecured guns would go a LONG way to stop K-12 school shootings.

I was curious about that. Really cool store but this will definitely be the end of it. Don’t know how they could weather the storm fixing to come their way.

It's been mentioned multiple times on other threads

So what parent gets prosecuted if they use a stolen gun from an unknown source? The ONLY one responsible is the shooter period. Quit blaming everyone else.

Because these are not hardened criminals living in the streets of detroit. These are lazy 15-20 year old males mostly who live in their parents basement playing call of duty, watching internet porn, and complaining on reddit about being Incels. This latest kid didn't even have the motivation to learn how to drive at 18. The smallest of obstacles and this kid would have gone back to his basement and maybe done us all a favor and hung himself.

I agree with 100% though, for most gun violence (outside of school shootings), age limits do very little.

Around 70M kids younger than 17 as of 2020.
https://www.childstats.gov/americaschildren/tables/pop1.asp

Around 6M kids younger than 17 taking psychiatric drugs
https://www.cchrint.org/psychiatric-drugs/people-taking-psychiatric-drugs/

~9% of todays kids are on psychiatric drugs? If these numbers are true, it sure explains a lot.

This is a good start down the road of solving a lot of the problems we're seeing today.

Why? He passed the background check, and was 18. Legal purchase. The store did nothing wrong.

AMEN ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE ONE WHO PULLED THE TRIGGER

Why sue Remington because someone used their gun to shoot other people? Because we are evil people that are denying the truth.

I believe you are referring to the Sandy Hook settlement? Don't remember all the details of that case, but I think it was about how Remington advertised the gun, not for manufacturing it, if I remember right.

I’m not sure what your point is. That mental illness is common?

Used to lock them up and drug them. Now we just drug them up and let them loose on society.

Same reason you can sue a bar or bartender AND the drunk person. You might not like it, but it has been effective at reducing drunk driving and changing the culture that acepted driving while intoxicated.

Are you saying if someone is diagnosed with mental illness they should be “locked up” just seems like a good way to deter people from getting help.

you can sue a bartender and bar for not stopping selling to a person to make them drunker. A mom or dad who bought a gun to go hunting or blinking that did not approve the person taking the gun and going to kill someone, is a big difference than a bartender making money by continuing to sale drinks to a drunk and they go kill someone with a car because they are drunk

What I am saying is that we used to lock them up and treat them. Had a classmate in high school that spent the summer in one of the "treatment" asylums. He was a totally different person when he got out. Almost a decent human.

It's the same concept. You are making someone else that can influence the situation responsible. The parents need to lock up their firearms in a manner that their kids can't get them without parental involvement.

I don't believe big Pharma will allow what you suggest. They are making way to much money to allow a working treatment to be available.

Jody

I blame the parents.

I'm a boomer and I'm gonna geez here, but when I was in high school in Dallas it was not uncommon to see rifles in racks on the back windows of pickups in the school parking lot. "School shootings" were two words never heard together.

What changed? Latch-key kids, anti-depressants for kids, a society in which people are not responsible for their own actions, terrible nutrition for kids (evidenced by increased Diabetes and CVD in kids), and the list goes on. (I'd include violent video games that desensitize kids to shooting people but I'll get raped here where adults will defend video games to the death.)

I believe the solution is to start holding parents responsible for their kids' actions. In this case, put Salvador Ramos' parents in prison for the school shootings. Find them, wherever they are, and lock them up forever. Then maybe, just maybe, other parents will start to pay attention to what their kids are up to.

What, they advertised the gun as the perfect weapon for school shooters?