HVAC Question

The heat pump system for my home is 25 years old. It's a Lennox 3.5 Ton 12.5 SEER unit. Apart from replacing the capacitor this weekend, it has worked great. Google says heat pumps last up to 15 years. At what point do you replace the unit, whenever it has a major issue?

My philosophy with stuff that has lasted way longer than normal is to keep using it unless there's some good reason to replace it. My buddy has a fridge that he and his now ex-wife bought when they got married in 1982. Its sitting in his garage right now keeping the beer cold.

You're living on borrowed time IMO. Heat pump compressor works all year long.

Having said this you could get another 5 years out of it. No one knows the day or the hour . . . !

I was told a couple of months ago that my ten year old heat pump compressor was pulling high amps. I'm going to roll with it until it breaks. Every month that we keep using the old one is one less month on the new one.

I wait til stuff like that carps out, then deal with it

This but also start budgeting now for its replacement if not already done so.

What's the going rate for these systems? $5k to $8k?

Like the old saying goes....If it aint broke, don't fix it. Keep it cleaned and should last a few more years.

We paid $6000 or $6500 in August 2020 including new inside unit.

Depends on size and seer rating. I did mine last year and didn't skimp out on anything. The unit I put in was 10k with labor. It is a 5 ton 19 seer. It also came with static electric filter and 2 ozone producing bulbs 2 feet into the start of duct. New Ecobee thermostat with 2 extra room sensors. Everything programs to wifi and is connected directly to my phone and can be controlled from anywhere.

With filters and Ozone bulbs my air in the house is REALLY REALLY clean and keeps dust WAY down with this system. Bet we may need to dust maybe once every 6-8 weeks. I also had my return moved and increased in size for better air movement and to quiet everything down because where it was before, it sounded like a small plane when it kicked on. This came with new condenser and complete HVAC system in attic. So new furnace and new a/c all the way around. It aint cheap but with the home improvement loan, I was able to take a 15 year loan at like 6% (if I remember correctly). I am paying way more than bare minimum payments every month but I think it was just under $100/month for this loan. I will have the loan paid off within 2 years. So in terms of cost, overall it seems like a punch to the gut but with the home improvement loan, it was a no brainer to get the best I could get my hands on last year when everything was kind of hard to find.

Think I have a 5 or 10 year warranty on the unit (honestly can't remember unless I go look at all the paperwork). I just am religious about keeping condenser screens cleaned and hosed off so they can breathe and change out filters in units every 3-4 months. Should last me at least 10 -15 years I am hoping.

Let it run until it won’t t and save for a system!

Cost will be going upon a couple of reasons. The lowest SEER rating allowed right now is 14 as of next year it will be 15 and there is word that the EPA wants to increase this to 17 which will mean variable stage and added cost. As of next January the start of the phase out of 410A refrigerant begins however it took 17 years to phase out R22 so cost of 410A will start to increase.

A new refrigerant has not been decided on by all manufactures Carrier wants to use one type and Trane another with both being mildly flammable. The EPA has never approved a mildly flammable refrigerant for residential use so who knows.

Also new guidelines are coming into play for the refrigerant drums. At this time they are disposable but this will change so the drums will be heavier and hold less refrigerant and will have to be inspected and pressurized. This was suppose to happen next year but there are no approved stations at this time so it’s been pushed to 2025. This will add cost.

Lots of the units are using ECM motors (Electronically Communicating Motor) they cost more to the costumers and from what we are seeing don’t last as long. At this time the supply chain issues has SCREWED everything up.

So bottom line is prepare for cost to go up 1.5 to double for units from what they are now. Carrier did a 10% increase in April already due to Supply issues.

5 yrs ago we had all outside units replaced with trane xr units, 3 - 4 ton, 2 - 3 ton and one 1 1/2 ton. furnaces all stayed but were replaced 2 yrs ago after one tried to catch fire.

cost of all outside units was just over 14k installed, no idea what the inside replacements cost but all 6 were done.

and that is all I know about that.

Ride it til it dies

But doesn’t it carp out on the hottest day in August and an “expedited” service call means they’ll get to you in 3 days?

So last week the capacitor went out. Two days later, I was still having problems with the new capacitor. The fan motor was seized up like no other. New fan motor came in today and we are back in business. The fan motor should have been replaced years ago. It didn't make any audible sound indicating it needed replacement though. The fan blade wouldn't spin freely before, now it makes several turns with a slight nudge.

Well, ours just carped out on Wednesday night. Warm air from the vents and I went in the attic and checked and there was ice on the evaporator. Tech came out next day and measured pressures and temps at the compressor and showed me it was about 3-4 pounds of freon low. Looked at the evaporator coils and said there is some oil residue at the far corner of the coils. So 11 years and it is finally shot I think. I rolled the dice and had him service with Freon $350 worth and it only lasted 2 days. Options: Change out just the evaporator coil $3450, and it may be a kluge to find one to fit, or invest in a new matched Compressor Unit and Evaporator coil set. It is an American Standard 16 SEER 4 ton unit.

JMO but I think you are better off with the full system upgrade. We have the same unit specs but Trane brand in our house you mention installed a few years back and the energy savings is significant. House is about 1600 square feet electric bill this past month was $88 but we also have gas that bill same period was $47 but overall still reasonable. When we upgraded ours we changed everything outside unit and attic AC and furnace. I think it was around $7k but that was a few years back probably higher now.

I agree. I will probably go with both compressor and evaporator unit. This is gonna hurt $$$$$$

11 years doesn't seem very old. I would think these units should last longer than that, especially for what you pay for them.

11 is slightly off but remember that a heat pump "works" year round. Also QC can vary by manufacturer and design changes can cause problems like in anything else (example would be the early SHO Yamahas, 1st gen Merc Optimax, etc.)

The AC went out in the shop. Trane was quoted 24 weeks for a 3 ton, Lennox was at 3-4 weeks. We took the Lennox. Better be ready to buy window units if your system goes out.

Oh yeah, it was 12k installed. Don’t even try to compare what someone paid 2 years ago.

Ouch!

If you are replacing major components of your HVAC with the hopes of improving efficiency, then you should also look at your duct work and plenum. Doesn’t really matter the seer rating of you new unit of the air is getting hung up in the ducts.

Any installers worth a hill of beans seals the components of the system on a change out at least to the duct outlets from the planum. But yes, go into the attic and feel around for air escaping. If not sealed get 'em back out there.

Give up Google.

Words to live by. Also "Don't take any wooden nickels", another great life hack!

It is more than leaking ducts, which as you stated should be easy to identify and correct. The routing of the duct work and configuration of the plenum is what I am talking about. Think of your ducts as a highway that moves air throughout your house. If a highway has a 90 turn in it, or if it constricts from 5 lanes down to 2, then traffic will pile up. Poor duct routing can decrease air flow and even cause backflow, which puts extra load on your compressor without adding more cool air.

And don't just assume your system was installed correctly either. My neighbor moved in to his house about the same time I did. House is about 5 years old, and he was ready to add a window unit to help with a section of his kitchen that stayed hot as a hamster in a wool sock. Turns out the sheet rock guy did not cut out a hole for one of the vents. Took a lot of head scratching and counting ducts in the attic compared with vents in the ceiling to figure it out, but previous owner had lived with it since the house was built.

Well, here is another FJB moment. Since our Coil went bad and is leaking, and our condenser unit is also at the 11 year mark, we told our AC company to go ahead and quote us a new Condenser and Coil unit matching American Standard (Trane) system.
Ok, will do. Guess what, they cannot find a new system in inventory at any of the major distributors across Texas. There is a waiting line of folks sitting with broken AC systems in their houses waiting for new systems to come in.

So we are without AC for God knows how long. We are turning into Venezuela. I am wanting to buy a new AC system and cannot. Isn't that just peachy?

a guy at work waited 10 days for a coil to come in.

Putin must be affecting this too

One of mine 20 year old ACs just took a dump. Almost identical to what Bob Davis described. I'm being told prices from a year ago are up 20-40% depending on the particulars. Best deal I've been able to find is $8,600 installed for a 3.5 ton Trane XR-16 single stage and $13,995 for a XV-18 (variable). It's impossible to cost justify the variable speed units. If you get one it's purely a splurge on a little more comfort. My issues is I have 3 ACs, so there's zero chance I'm going to pay 14K three times over.

Holy smokes, 3 AC units? But the good thing is that you may be able to shut one down for a period if need be. We bought and installed a 14,000 btu Window unit this weekend and I have a portable Honeywell for the BR if need be.

The AC company just let me know they did find a Coil available and found the Outside unit that will take two weeks to arrive. So we should be back up and running good tomorrow with the new coil, then replace the Outside unit 2 weeks from now. Hope it gets done prior to me getting my Hip surgery in June.

Staying at home...it's the new going to work.