So at this point are we all willing to admit that

We should have taken the virus more seriously than we did? Should have stayed locked down longer....should have put a national testing process in place....should have developed contact tracing procedures.....you know, what everyone else in the world did.

For a long time and while we were sheltering in place there were not test. Now there are test and they are doing a lot of them, With more testing now comes more cases of the virus. Is there more cases or just the test that show there is more cases.

Cue the COVID-19 truthers

I do not believe we should have stayed locked down longer. I do, however, believe we should have been told to wear masks from the very beginning, had contact tracing in place, and had testing available a heck of a lot sooner so we'd have more information about the infection rate and fatality rate.

No.

No

No

Ummm check your hospitals, your greatly misinformed, many texas hospitals are at capacity in the icu and extra spaces they can put covid patients, that has NOTHING to do with testing numbers... Its hopitalization numbers

Plenty of early blunders, but it’s absolutely critical what we are doing now, tomorrow, and the days going forward.
It’s not too late to correct the course.

[quote=Ted Dyer]We should have taken the virus more seriously than we did? MAYBE
Should have stayed locked down longer? NO
...should have put a national testing process in place? PROBLY
...should have developed contact tracing procedures? MAYBE
you know, what everyone else in the world did. I don’t give a rats uknowwhat about the rest of the world. Come to think of it the other side of the world perpetrated this upon us.

"Come to think of it the other side of the world perpetrated this upon us."

This, and they are NOT our friends...... think about it . . . . .


DUH ! ! ! ! ! !

Should of had hobos spit in our mouths an get it over with long time ago .

The USA has 4% of the world's population but 25% of the COVID-19 deaths. There's a reason for that. But it's like presenting facts to Flat-Earthers, creationists, and Holocaust deniers. A deeply held belief will not be swayed by facts, data, or any amount of evidence.

Easy to say more testing and contact tracing. How does this realistically take place? Everybody get a test everyday? If I am negative today I could be positive tomorrow. If I test positive do we trace & lock everybody down I came in contact with for 14 days? Do I start testing again everyday if I then test negative after recovering? Where do all the contact tracers come from? Unrealistic?

Maybe we are just being more honest in our reporting than other countries.

F no...

Thank you.

Could even be fluffing the numbers upward as well.

I'm just thankful the riots and protests didn't spread it, whew we got lucky there

No

You two reach arounders will believe anything your fake news clowns will tell you.

Bingo! We have a winner! Some countries have absolutely been less than forthcoming on this. Iran, for instance, has been digging mass graves, but denies it. At least they look like big trenches in the cemeteries, per satellite imagery, but maybe they're building wine cellars?

Prepare for Antifa Illustrated article links.

I find this as a source of motivation. We should all show China that we can defeat a virus that originated there by wearing masks, sanitization, and social distancing. If we continue on our current path, we show a weakness.

Same with north Korea. No telling.

Better yet how about both sides simply stop politcizing it.

No

I am not willing to admit anything....unless of course you have pictures or videos...:)

Frankly I don't what or who to believe about anything any more...

You're playing the "both sides game" and equating the proper practices for containment of a very contagious disease on a mass scale with some political ploy or agenda.

Don't you find it odd the experts couldn't even agree if wearing a mask was good or bad?

Even in 'lockdown' people were piling into Walmart, Target, Lowes, HD and other stores. Why didn't it spread then? What really changed?

No, maybe from now on people will keep their damn hands away from their face and practice good hygiene.

heck no stay shut down for the left's hoax.

Woulda, shoulda, coulda. No matter if it continues to increase like it is now, it will be ugly and those that were affected by the lockdown will likely be affected even more.

Yea the “expert class” cheered on the brick throwers but wanted the rest of us to cower in the basement.

Thinking maybe we should have just rode it out and 500k deaths happen.....3 million deaths annually anyway....crippling the economy will ruin way more than 500k lives

I found an expert that tells it like it is

https://www.facebook.com/euanart/vi...STEyMzE5NjgzNTA6MTAyMjMzODUyMjIwNzg3Mjg/

No

What percentage of our population ever really was quarantined?
I was business as usual, Most of my customers both in healthcare and commercial facilities were as well.
Food service took a beating as did segments of retail. Add thos who had the ability to work from home, I wonder what this percentage is.

So at this point are you willing to admit that it's real easy to criticize decisions made in retrospect when no one alive has gone though anything like this before. The closest thing we had to compare this to is swine flu and H1N1, and no one changed anything in their daily lives when that was a pandemic.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda, is real easy right now. You shoulda warned us 4 months ago this pandemic was gonna be totally different from the ones before so we coulda all stocked up on water and toilet paper.

Actually, we had the Spanish flu to draw upon, and what happens when best practices are not followed.

Philadelphia waited 8 days after their death rate began to climb before banning gatherings and closing schools. They endured the highest peak death rate of all the cities studied.

St. Louis had strong social distancing measures and a low total death rate. Then they faced a sharp increase when restrictions were relaxed.

San Francisco also had a large second spike of cases and deaths after relaxing social distancing measures.

NYC began quarantine measures 11 days before the death rate spiked and had the lowest death rate on the Eastern Seaboard.

So nothing that has happened concerning the epidemiology of COVID-19 and what to do about it is new or surprising. Cities that took earlier and stronger measures during the Spanish flu also had stronger economies sooner.

CDC blundered with waffling on that no doubt.
It was clear that the counties wearing masks in March were doing significantly better than the countries that weren’t.

Part of the big problem here is that the AMA was stripped of its power by Nixon in the early 1970s and then again by the Affordable Care Act. Most physicians I know started wearing masks late February (particularly the ENTs and pulmonologists) and other doctors followed their lead. The AMA has very little political voice or power these days, and it’s a shame.

WOW !! -- Joe Biden finally came out of the basement.

It was a mess from the start. I have yet to understand why so many hospitals would not allow employees to wear masks early on. It makes absolute sense to me that masks would help to varying degrees. What I don't get is the mixed messages by Fauci, the Surgeon General and others. I've seen more people wearing masks after Memorial day than before. Beats me as to what really changed to cause an increase.

New data means changing information but because of the distrust of authority figures, any deviation is seen as proof that they’re untrustworthy. We’d rather stumble blindly into ruin than admit there’s something wrong. The adage “ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure” is especially apt when a cure can’t be bought.

Same chit different day for like 4 month!

But but but.....
Do it for the children...

True we had the Spanish Flu the Asian Flu the Hong Kong flu, ect, ect, ect, The point is, that since the Spanish Flu we've had at least a half dozen other pandemics and epidemics and none of them changed anything about our daily lives until this one. But somehow according to a certain group of people, we should have known this one would change the world as we know it?
Everyone is a genius in retrospect.

I don’t know what some of you ding dongs think is gonna happen here, there is no cure and will be no cure. There is only one way through this mess and that is for all of us to be exposed to it and we all will be exposed to it sooner or later.

#truthhurts

yep

Call me a mask hole if you want....
I am leaning this way for now, but I reserve the right to do a 180 and go full blow masker any day. I may even mask shame . We do not cure viruses. They run their course.

Those at capacity ICU patient populations are only 25% COVID-19 patients. So one may wonder why the high capacities in the critical care units? A reasonable answer might be, Well, remember back in March when Hospitals only admitted COVIDS and traumas? They treated and sent sick folks home from the ER's. Then many were triaged and by judgement sent home. Chronic patients stayed away as hospitals didn't want them. Cancer patients went without treatment. Surgeries were postponed for months.

Now a bunch of those folks have gotten really sick and hospitals are reaping what they sowed. I forgot to mention all those, and there were many, that got scared to go to the hospitals because of the atmosphere of fear surrounding society as it was thrust on people by the "news" agencies. Those that were sick in March, April, and May and missed treatments for whatever reasons some have gotten really sick as their disease progressed over time.

Most of the positive tests are incidental findings or mild symptoms of younger and stronger persons.

Truth, we still haven't cured the common cold. The other problem is you can get a cold more than once, and Covid has shown the ability to mutate.

Well, sort of, but not really. We don’t fear polio, Hanta, Ebola, etc. We can bolster our immune system to not suffer from the infection of a virus. We might all need to be infected. Possibly the lizard man saves the day and becomes the TFF and world vaccine poster child? Hard to say.... but there is hope.

Mask hole

You can make sound decisions and develop a plan of action based on reliable information. That did not happen, nor has it happened now. Still too many unknowns to plan properly. The whole situation surrounding COVID-19 has been very fluid.

watch this
https://www.facebook.com/lesa.fisherpatten/videos/3151129788277372/

Democrat sponsored riots for a month.

No. The only thing I'm willing to admit are that there are many more people in the US that need someone to hold their hand and wipe their butt than what I thought.

If you're in that 99.5% group that will be fine if they catch it, carry on. If you're in that .5% that is at risk, take responsibility for yourself and do what you need to do to be safe. Somewhere around 40% of Covid Deaths are nursing home related.

Gee, wouldn't it have been nice if we'd have known those people were at risk earlier? Like the very first cluster of deaths in the US at that nursing home in Washington? heavy sarcasm.

Until, and if, there's a vaccine, IMO there are only two answers to this. 1. Stay locked down and delay the inevitable while the economy falls to nothing and the majority of people are done for financially, or 2. Protect the at risk and let the 99.5% of the rest of us get on with it.

Is there a virus, sure. The reason the lockdown was a hoax was that it was one big kick the can measure. Dealing wi tnn it isnt shutting the economy down and hiding in your home. That was never sustainable. Dealing with it is learning to function as a society, which requires an economy that works. I dont know that all will get it, I think a bunch more have had it and dont even know it. I would also add that I'm not sure our far left friends of the Democrat party havent had their little minions that are asymptomatic running around spreading it in certain states on purpose. (My tinfoil theory for the day). The death rate is lower, for the most part people who are high risk know who they are and should take appropriate precautions. Beyond that you wake up every day and go fo what you have to do. The left sought to divide the country at a time we needed to stand strong together, the people in the room that are supposed to be the adults have caved to the political winds swirling around them. Every business I know has acted aggressively to comply, spacing, capacity limits, barriers, sanitizer, masks, revised practices, digital and paper menus, the list goes on and on. You cant just stop and start. The cost is too high. I spoke yesterday with a person who I consider a smart guy. We agreed that what is gonna happen in the economy is the rich folks businesses will generally be the only ones to survive if this continues. For you folks who have aspirations to do more or your kids to do more you need to consider what that looks like. Dont doom yourself to economic slavery cause the golden rule still applies. The list of bankrupt will grow, it will become foreclosure signs in your neighborhoods, your friends maybe you. Tax base shrinks, our ability to take care of poor, elderly, sick is diminished, investment wealth destroyed, the hiding in the closet folks are playing a fool's game, Russian roulette with a bullet in all the chambers. There is my happy thought for the day.

No

The answers to many questions,

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/faq.html#:~:text=The%20immune%20response%2C%20including,is%20not%20yet%20understood

No.

Nope, nothing new here. It is apparently bad for people that are on their way out already. You know, the ones that a common cold or a slip in the shower can mean the end.

They have to boost their numbers to fit their narrative to keep people in fear. Testing is way up and cases spiked but deaths remained flat. That should tell you something.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/state-timeline/new-deaths/texas/0

Dangerous ground when government officials can change the way we render a diagnosis.

The differential diagnostic process has been supplanted by a checked box that gets you paid.

Literally the undoing of the fabric of America. Shameful.

J

No.

It undermines science and has been happening since Al Gore started his carbon trading scheme.

https://environmentalprogress.org/b...alists-i-apologize-for-the-climate-scare

govt. (both sides) has long manipulated data so they can maintain their appearance, stupid part is we also find out they did it after the fact.

claiming a death is covid when someone actually had a heart attack that killed them is beyond wrong right now.
they are doing this to keep numbers inflated and maintain the boot on the neck.

2 yrs ago dems said they wanted a recession or other major problem to affect the country just before the election, which states/party are promoting the fear and backing rioters?

https://www.vox.com/2019/8/21/20813864/experts-recession-trumps-election-2020

Mark Alexander · Dec. 19, 2018
Will Democrats Get the Pre-Election Recession They Want?
Between now and the 2020 election, job and income prospects for tens of millions of American workers may fall victim to a politically induced recession.
https://patriotpost.us/alexander/60...-election-recession-they-want-2018-12-19



notice the dates, they are prior to the covid debacle

That's strong Hops !

In my opinion the economic health of the nation is the most important goal there is in this whole mess.

No

As it should be, has a lack of money every solved anything????

I have to admit when I saw the title on the main page, I busted out laughing. Yes, we should have taken it more seriously and no we didn’t overreact by shutting down.

Well, the last Depression ended up with a World War and 85 million deaths.

I would guess that if the current spike continues, more people will stay home rather than go to bars, sporting events, restaurants, etc irrespective of a lockdown. It is the Covid-19 that is damaging the economy in the long run. Sure, some will continue to flaunt the flu and go to gatherings but not enough to support the businesses that are most vulnerable. Many, like me, consider the risk to reward ratio. Going out to have dinner is not worth the risk. I think it is remarkable that for many, there life is so boring that going to a bar or out to dinner is so important that they are willing to take the risk.

look at how all this has unfolded and realize that dems do not give one iota how bad they hurt the country as long as they think they will be in power. look at how the house has acted recently, shot down the policing bill from tim scott, insist that only they know what we need and Trump is an idiot to be ignored.
the states with the worst problems from covid were/are the dem run dumps, ny, kalifornicate, mi, wi, nj, conn and others are doing all they can to keep things shut down, why?


folks, the liberal/socialists are playing the population again with covid and then the floyd mess just amped up the delay in reopening due to riots and protests.

like I have said, like him or not, Trump is the only choice if you want to keep living in the U.S. elect biden and we will be third world within 6 months.

The point is that people should be able to make their own decisions. Period. There are plenty of things people do that I think are stupid. But, that’s their life, and their decision.

I’m sure you, or someone else, will say that our actions affect other people. That’s true of this, and true of a lot of things. Do what you think is right. Don’t shame people for having a different view. Don’t applaud government telling us how to live, and what to do. Chance are, their next decisions may not suit your liking. I won’t have much sympathy for you then.

Many, like you, weigh the risk and decide it's worth it to get out of the house.

he sit's at home praying for a recession.

No

My point was that if it continues enough will not go by their own choice that bars and restaurants will not have enough customer base to survive. I do think the government has the responsibility to keep the public informed with the best information of the day rather than deny the problem. And Davedave, no sympathy from you does not matter to me one iota.

He's retired. What does he care? Most of the ones in favor of the shutdown have no fat in the fire...they're retired.

You can’t keep people locked down how in the heck do you expect them to provide for their families I don’t get that. Don’t tell me about the stimulus either it was 2400.00$ . To the op I ask you how do expect people to pay their bills. And buy the way I haven’t missed a day of work sinse this thing started.

yes sir.

Lol me to

You excluded Arizona, Texas, and Florida because they are ran by republicans.

He lost all credibility on here when he wished for a recession in the US so it would take Trump down. When you wish destruction to your country because you don’t like the current President, you have crossed a line, in my opinion.

^^^^^ ^^^^^

that is the ugly face of liberalism at it's finest.

New York has 6% of the US population but 25% of the US COVID-19 deaths. There's a reason for that too.......his name is Fredo Sr.

I wish Trump would start hiring a boat load of contact tracers....would help the economy by putting people back to work and getting them off unemployment...and would help with the virus tracking...plus it might give people more faith in the numbers...

We've got to keep the economy open, but we also need to be smarter about how this virus is handled.

The cities with major outbreaks are Democrat enclaves that protested for a month with Democrat support. Of course you won't admit that was a very bad series of events that spread the disease because....politics.

Y'all realize that every time you start in with the "But so and so did..." it sounds like a kid trying to weasel out of getting punished for getting caught red handed.

Yeah yeah. We know. Libs bad. Enough already.

Per the CDC, America has an average mortality rate of more than 7500 people per day. That is one death every 12 seconds. Those are pre-covid numbers. Anyone want to guess what the current numbers are? 7500 per day. Despite all the press and the panty twisting we have the same mortality rate. Think about that for a minute. Would the OP be as concerned about the mortality of there was no covid? Because if he is then why hasn't he complained about it in previous years?

More than 200,000 people die each and every month in the USA. Been that way for a long, long time. It's called the cycle of life. None of us will get off this rockpile alive.

There's no punishment involved. I agree, enough already. It's here, it's not going away, it can be deadly, assume you will get it and get on with your life. You cannot hide from it behind a cloth mask.

Is someone reading my mind

Say it ain’t so..............

You fail to point out that the blame game comes from both sides, which would have been more credible. I too am sick of it

I approve of the this post

Yadda Yadda Yadda Yadda

That's fine. But what I would like is "to not get sick" at all. There are too many fishing trips and to many hunting trips that I don't want to miss. People should wear a mask to keep things going and if they still get sick then something went wrong. I'll do what I can not to miss my next planned outing. If facts say a small dose of virus helps you build a immunity and a large dose of virus will kill you. I'll take the the small dose. If every body gets a small dose. It's not about death to me it's the inconvenience of down time. Open the country up and let people make choices about wearing masks. Any one can enter our building by choice of wearing a mask if they don't want to they don't have come in. It's easy and not political. It's selfish on my part but I don't want to deal with you if your going to cause me downtime.

According to the latest, 97% of the population survives coronavirus. Personally, I think it is much higher than that. More like 99.5%. But I digress, I'd rather operate at 97% than 0-50% like Abbott wants.

It's called freedom. Freedom to work, freedom to travel, freedom to associate with others, freedom to enjoy life. I don't wish to give those up from fear. Americans have always been brave and have always been risk takers. I don't plan to change that.

How many libs are here? 5? Maybe 6? And yet how many posts do we all have to scroll through of "But the libs did..." Come on. You're better than that. It's whiny and shifting blame and beneath any adult.

All I'll admit is that this was screwed from the beginning from the top. No pandemic council, was dismissed as a hoax, and no direction to follow. States were told to do their own thing, and then it became political with insults to mayors and governors being tossed around. As a result, it is not under control, and we are having much less success than other countries in doing so. That's not leadership by any definition. You can blame it on liberals all day long, but they don't control the "top dog".

More than 5-6, but honestly several of them provoke or troll for arguments as do some from the right. To ignore that is doing exactly that which you are condemning.

And this kind of nonsense doesn't help either.
You have no control over what politicians do or don't do. Blaming them for lack of personal responsibility is just as bad. Every individual is to do the best that they possibly can under the circumstances. Every individual needs to take responsibility for their own germs and take steps to mitigate.

Shifting the blame to politicians is as fruitful as blaming the libs. Stop whining.

7500 X 365 days = 2,737,500 deaths per year.
330,000,000 / 2,737,500 = 120.54 years till everyone alive in the US is dead.

Where did the CDC publish those numbers? You did say more than 7500 but it should be more like 1200 per day.

Sounds more like "don't cough" and you don't need a mask. Thanks Karen.

While I will admit the virus is a serious factor, it has been blown out of proportion. Especially by the media and everyone else who hates the current President.
In 1968, Bird flu (also known as Hong Kong flu) killed more than 100,000 in the United States. That number would be a larger percentage of the US population (0.0049%) than the recent deaths from COVID (0.0038%). *
* Source: Google, searched US population in 1968/2020, and number of deaths attributed to each virus.

It is estimated Bird Flu killed between 1 and 4 million globally, compared to 512,000+ for COVID.

With each of these viruses, there were many more deaths of people aged 65+. That's just kind of the way things go as we age.

Though I was only 9 or 10, I don't recall the politicians shutting everything down. Granted, international travel wasn't so popular then as it is now. But that didn't stop either virus from spreading. Shutting down won't prevent the spread, either. Was it successful in slowing down the spread? Probably.

Letting nature take its course (Darwin - survival of the fittest, for example), our bodies will either develop the necessary antibodies or they won't. If they don't, we die. If they do, we, as a species, become stronger and better able to defend against reinfection from the same virus.

This "global shutdown" is nothing more than a power grab from those who desire a "one-world, one-government" solution. They've seen how easily everyone gave up. We should look for more power grabs to come.

May God help us if Trump is NOT re-elected. Not that I like the man. But I sure as heck don't want the looney DC liberals running anything.

Why read the threads and whine about whining if it bothers you that much? Not being rude just asking an honest question. If the subject matter and replies annoy you then why keep on reading them?

Seriously, where do you come up with this stuff?

Hopefully HK and WAWI will chime in on this, I doubt that the over 75 with underlying health conditions are the main customer base at bars and restaurants. If you're not in that over 75 with underlying health conditions, you're chances of continuing to be in that customer base if you catch the wuflu is 99.5% or more.

Because there's some really awesome gems in here and some really great posters that keep me coming back. I enjoy the discussions when we stop acting like children.

There's a bunch of brilliant, funny, really intelligent people that frequent the OT and I value their words enough to keep coming back.

You are wrong and he is correct.

CDC 2018

CDC 2017

Around 2,800,000 deaths per year in the US.

And no - not 120 years until everyone in the US is dead. Are you that dumb? There were over 3,000,000 births in the US in 2019.

Edit: sorry, nearly 3.8 million births in 2019.

That’s a fairly important detail in predicting the extinction of the human race.

Sounds like you are saying everyone needs to post to your tastes and opinions on this matter.

No. I come here to be specifically outside my echo chamber and hear dissenting opinions. I want to argue with y'all. More than once I've changed my opinion because of the facts stated here and I still learn from y'all every day. But when you keep seeing the same argument for most of a thread of "But the libs did..." it gets old.

Kat, I know you realize it's the Texas Fishing Forum where the majority of folks posting are quite conservative.

If you want an opposite flavor that gets just as old go to the New York Fishing Forum.

People are people and most men are very interested in politics, whatever the flavor.

My apologies then. I'll try to do better in the future and keep my mouth shut.

The math was right and at some point in the future life expectancy will have to go up or the death rate. 330 million people. 3 million are gone this year. How many years till all 330 million are gone? Its simple math.

But you are right, only 2.something people died last year. Even if the same number of people are dying each month, the same as last year, the number of Covid deaths mean that some other means of death have gone down.
So a different perspective is that even with Covid, the overall death rate did not increase.

That means nothing overall. If we hadn't slowed down, distanced, masked up, closed down or any of the other measures we took, what would the death rate be. Probably not 7500 per day and probably not only 128k deaths in the US.
What Flag said without wanting to is that all the measures taken had a positive effect on the death rate that was not Covid related.

Or it means that many deaths historically that were attributed to other causes are now being lumped in as COVID which creates an artificial spike on the COVID side.

Anyone notice that no one dies of the flu anymore?

Coughing droplets on a nutrient media six inches in front of your face spreads bacteria. Our mouths are akin to a sewer. Wearing a surgical mask prevents this which is why we wear them. If she’s trying to somehow illustrate the spread of Covid-19, more fear, or the reason she’s not going to be a PhD candidate this year, she’s done at least one.

Sorry for the haughty tone but this propagation of misinformation to the general public needs to stop.

1. No your math was wrong - just admit it. The US population, and the human species, isn't going extinct any time soon - the opposite actually. The simple math is in the year 2018 the population actually grew by 1 million people. 3,800,000 births minus 2,800,000 deaths equals a population increase of 1,000,000. THAT is simple math.

2. 128,000 deaths = 328 deaths per day. Pretty statistically insignificant as it is; however - other deaths rates aren't magically going to go down - things are being labeled as china flu when the underlying cause of death was say - a stroke - but guess what - they had 1 symptom or tested positive - so it's being counted as china flu. Plus the numbers quoted above were from prior years anyways. Your argument holds zero water and is indeed stupid

look at the total deaths in all the above states and get back to me.

don't give a rats arse about infections, deaths are what matter.

Location Confirmed Recovered Deaths
New York
393K
-
24,855
California
223K
-
5,980
New Jersey
172K
-
13,181
Texas
160K
+6,975
-
2,424
+21

Also nevermind the scientific fact that a VIRUS is not bacteria and can't grow in a petridish in some nutrient rich artificial media - it requires living cells. Two completely different living organisms in how they replicate, grow, enter hosts, etc.

Nothing but fear porn from a wannabe scientist.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/deaths.htm?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fnchs%2Fdeaths.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...6122020/images/nchs-mortality-report.gif

all states, fl is just below Tx.

Location Confirmed Recovered Deaths
New York
393K
-
24,855
California
223K
-
5,980
New Jersey
172K
-
13,181
Texas
160K
+6,975
-
2,424
+21
Florida
159K
+6,093
-
3,550
+58
Illinois
143K
+724
-
6,923
+21
Massachusetts
109K
+114
88,725
8,054
Pennsylvania
86,606
+618
-
6,649
+35
Georgia
81,291
+1,874
-
2,805
+21
Arizona
79,215
+4,682
-
1,632
+44
Maryland
67,559
+305
-
3,062
+14
North Carolina
64,670
+1,186
45,538
1,343
+18
Michigan
63,870
+373
-
5,947
+32
Virginia
62,787
+598
-
1,763
+23
Louisiana
58,095
+1,014
-
3,113
+22
Ohio
51,789
+743
-
2,863
+45
Connecticut
46,206
-
4,311
Indiana
45,594
-
2,448
Tennessee
43,509
+1,212
-
604
+12
Alabama
37,536
+854
-
926
+21
South Carolina
36,399
+1,755
-
739
+19

And in other news, multiple funeral homes on the North Shore are reporting no increase in funeral services the last 4 months. They're running right on track with the numbers the last 2 or 3 years.

Amazing huh? Could it possibly be that the vast majority of the wuflu deaths have claimed people that would have died from some other illness?

You’re using a linear model which isn’t anywhere close to accurate. The Baby Boomers are 77 million of your 330. The largest population bubble in the history of our country is getting near their actuarial terminus.

like the regular flue maybe?

Yep, or pneumonia, or some variant of COPD.

Congratulations on disproving your own argument. They're all lumped together making it impossible to tell what someone actually died of.

Cboone is on the money today.

Just tired of the non-sense. I've been around a long time in the shadows. Figured I'd open my big mouth today.

brutal.

Another interesting bit of information. The Dr. in Florida I talked to about this and the patients she's treating daily, she says a very significant percentage of them will likely be needing psychiatric help when they get over their sickness. She said she's seen nothing like this before, some of the patients are in some state of PTSD and are scared to death, borderline paranoid and/or schizophrenic. Sitting at home watching the doom and gloom all day has taken a mental toll on a lot of people.

I meant it 100% as a compliment.

If there were more mainstream media that simply would report on COVID without an agenda, political spin or to increase ratings we would be so much better off. Sadly about 90% of what I read from any source on it is agenda driven. I do not care if the science/numbers disagree with my opinions I just want the numbers as honest as they can be and same with the information regarding the virus. Keep it unfiltered.

The fear mongering going on because "orange man bad" will kill far more people than the virus. Far more. But the establishment does not care about those deaths. This is about control and power. Trump is in the their way.

Trump was an "F" you. Wait until they hear the "F" you again" in November.

Only a disbeliever, with whats known today about Covid, would look at that graph and think the rise this year is not mainly from Covid. Now, how am I disproving anything? Of course I am assuming you don't disagree that Covid is a large number of those cases this year. If not, you need one of those signs.

If they are interested in the politics, why don't they talk about the political issues rather than the name calling. Unfortunately, I believe it is because they haven't the intellect to discuss the issues but it is easy to call someone a lib when in fact, they don't even understand what a conservative is.

good read here...

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horo...avirus-cases-are-now-weaker-than-the-flu

If that is right, why " Cboone is on the money today. " in response to my pic showing CDC raw numbers?
Those numbers show Pneumonia, flu and Covid acting almost in line with the baseline till Covid started up and you seem to be egging him on?

Never mind. You have that opinion.

Who's whining? The same guy who's not wearing a mask and probably still thinks it's a hoax. I wear my mask and do my part, but more importantly, I will remember and will vote.

We have become a Third World nation with 25% of the world's fatalities from COVID, assorted food and material shortages, Trump threatening to unleash the military on US citizens, and countries banning Americans from entering.

If you call pointing out a guy bringing facts into a debate as egging on then paint me guilty. What political agenda or slant did CBoone bring up with his rebuttals of your opinions? I missed the political or biased nature of his replies. Can you point those parts out in his statements for me?

Ding Ding Ding

Or it means that many deaths historically that were attributed to other causes are now being lumped in as COVID which creates an artificial spike on the COVID side.

Long read, but makes perfect sense....


Medium.com

Mark, I simply posted a graph. Raw data presented to show the numbers. You egged on someone who obviously did not care what my intent was or looked at the graph.
I don't even understand what his point was. It certainly had nothing to do with why I posted the graph.

Lets just disagree. I think you have your own agenda, hiding it by saying you don't like the media.

Deaths and Mortality
Data are for the U.S.

Number of deaths: 2,813,503
Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population
Life expectancy: 78.6 years
Infant Mortality rate: 5.79 deaths per 1,000 live births
Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2017, tables 1, 3, 13 pdf icon[PDF – 2 MB]

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Heart disease: 647,457
Cancer: 599,108
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
Diabetes: 83,564
Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

in 2018 the death rate per 100k in the U.S. was 723.6, very much pre covid, the above is from 2017 so again, very pre covid.


now.

As of June 30, 2020, the number of both confirmed and presumptive positive cases of the COVID-19 disease reported in the United States had reached 2,581,229 with 126,739 deaths reported among these cases.

https://www.statista.com/statistics...19-cases-and-deaths-number-us-americans/

and I dare anyone to find current death from non wuhanflu stats. 2018 is as close as I can find for other causes of death. I posted video of officials saying on camera that no matter what killed you it is listed as wuhanflu if you test positive. MATTERS NOT WHAT YOU DIED FROM, YOU DIED DUE TO WUHANFLU IF YOU TEST POSITIVE. let that sink in a minute.
the people pushing the fear factor have a very obvious agenda and lo and behold looky what china did for them.

y'all keep playing the mind games and listening to all those "professionals" who can't even make up their mind what you should do, mask or no mask, lock your butt in the bathroom for a month or go out and live life, should I riot or just protest (hmmmm, I could use a new 65" tho).

we are right now barely above the yrly avg for alzheimers, at what number do we lock down for accidents? for stroke? oh, hell, better not get cancer or heart disease CUZ YA MIGHT DIE!

last time I will say it, you are being played by those who wish to do Trump harm and any expense, even locking granny in the nursing home the day she tested positive, thanks gov cuomo!



I'll keep sitting back and just watch the circus, which ring to concentrate on is the hard part.

My agenda is I want less biased coverage of COVID by the media. Let people form opinions based on data and facts rather than political agenda. BOTH sides of the political spectrum need to stop politicizing it.

There you go. You just figured out my agenda.

Step 1 of being a good Marxist:
Pretend everyone you disagree with is a Racist Nazi Hillbilly to avoid having a real conversation about competing view points. (see what I did there?)

and on your second post!!!

Yep

won't happen from any of them, just watch cuomo jr. with the civil rights lawyer that had the ar when the mob came on private property as a small example. the media on both sides are eating up the new news and keep it front and center 24/7.
the more someone tries to convince me of something and the harder they try to keep something agitated makes me very suspicious, the facts are just not lining up to justify all the shutdowns and rights being violated or are we as humans not smart enough to decide what is best for us?

how can anyone expect a blanket coverage of the country when you have ny and ca among others who have large populations and a whole different deal goin on than south dakota or west Tx. bueller? anyone, bueller?

Yes, I am liking the cut of his jib.

Please expound on the valid viewpoints regarding why COVID-19 is raging across the USA when other countries have controlled it, why the Earth is flat, why the biblical creation tale is true, or why the Holocaust did not occur.

I'd rather talk to a Goat.

"A deeply held belief will not be swayed by facts, data, or any amount of evidence." Seems applicable in this instance.

Boy I like this guy already
Keep up the good work

Only thing I see raging is lib's estrogen as they cry for another imaginary cause.

Once this flare-up dies down they'll stage additional protests to get the numbers back up then demand mail-in ballots.

The pit owners are happy that COVID death numbers are high. It’s taking the heat off of
their face mauling little teddy bears.

I dont think its a Liberal that created the virus? but I also dont think you can consider it RAGING across america. It is not going away and there will be no vaccine so NOW WHAT?

keep on keeping on.

What good does testing do?

come up with a vaccination

What's your education in? Ever worked with any leading epidemiologists? Ever been educated by any? Ever author (or help/participate) in any peer reviewed scientific research - and thus understand how this process is SUPPOSED to work? No? Didn't think so. I have - albeit on the animal side of things - but viruses are viruses regardless of the host species and science is still science. I am not a disbeliever in anything - quite the opposite. I was one of the first to sound the alarm on the China Flu - I've been watching it since the first week in January. The science (which we all know was junk science - same as the modeling) looked bad - almost "chicken little" bad - but the truth clearly became evident by mid-March - and it was scientifically clearly evident that by all means - very similar to the flu in mortality.

Yes - your graph shared by the CDC is pure and total [censored]. The US has an excellent alert system when it comes to tracking all illnesses. Best in the world probably. So why then - are all these illnesses lumped together so that the REAL data can't be seen?

I am not going to divulge my sources - but as God as my witness I can tell you a very large portion of the "China Flu" deaths are straight up BS. Die of a stroke, but also be suspected as COVID-19 positive? Death attributable to COVID-19. I could go on and on. Not nearly as many people have died of this virus as the powers that be would have you believe. The problem is when big $$$$ gets involved - it tends to cloud people's judgement. Fear sells and incorrect death certificates mean big bucks.

Believe what you want. I'm done arguing with someone who is so stupid as to say, and I quote, "333,000,000/2,700,000 = 120 years until everyone in America dies." Good day and good luck.

I also dont understand this? YEP, you had it, Big Gulps huh? see ya later.

Lolz

I apologize for not including ONE WORD when I put up my too hard for you to figure out formula. I thought it was self intuitive.

is what I should have posted. I meant, although evidently was not clear, that the current death rate which you gave did not account for the number of people we have in the US.

Seriously though, if you have proof of your claim you can do a huge amount of good for America if you just tell the experts how you know what you know. They can double check your data or findings. Or tell Fox News if you think its all political.
You, admittedly are not an expert. You evidently don't care what the experts around the world come up with and you know better.
But that describes half the people in this country.




Separately so you can't duck it, what did you find egregious in the graph I showed? Please look at the reason I posted it in the first place since it was to a regular flu question. Also what did you mean when you said it disproved my argument?
I just showed the tracking and how Covid changed the PIC baseline. What argument was I making?

If our numbers are higher than all other countries in the world then either they are ALL lying or we are lying.

There is no other option when the virus is the common denominator.

Yep

No way Jose!

With all due respect, Allison, that’s a pretty important word to leave out of your original statement. It’s the operative word of the entire argument you were making. And to now say that you meant the current death rate does not account for the current population is in the context of what you originally wrote is a stretch. In fact, now that you’ve said it, it’s still not 100% clear, but it definitely wasn’t obvious before.

And he has addressed his issues with your graph. At least twice, in fact. He also addressed why he said it disproved your argument. The attributing of manner of death to Covid has been handled poorly. Here is what he means: it’s almost surprising that George Floyd’s death while being arrested wasn’t counted as a Covid death, since he had Covid.

That’s what he is saying about your graph, in addition to the fact that it lumps three viruses together and does not line out deaths from each virus individually. He even explained why it’s inexcusable for the CDC to not break them out separately, when we have the best system in the world for doing so.

And he did it all with no political agenda or leanings.

Quote by Allison1
7500 X 365 days = 2,737,500 deaths per year.
330,000,000 / 2,737,500 = 120.54 years till everyone alive (TODAY) in the US is dead

Did you actually read what you typed?
Because I'm pretty sure that in 120.54 years everyone alive (TODAY) will be dead anyway.

Good Luck,
Bozz

Lurkers unite!

I feel like I'm being attacked. Mark has no agenda. Duck Hunter agreed that I left out an important word then went on to know what CBoone was thinking without knowing what CBoone said about it.

I'm sorry guys. I just posted a picture from the CDC and Duck Hunter, they do have information on each of the three but nothing that would have allowed me to answer the question I was attempting to when I answered it.



I still don't know what was wrong with the graph. It showed a baseline and how it went askew when Covid came to town.
Now, back to the no agenda folks.

The reality is the number of deaths has been over 100% of normal expected weekly deaths since the end of February. There is a very tight band for the number of folks that die on a weekly basis in the US. That band has been and continues to be exceeded by a wide statistically significant margin. So you can keep spreading nonsense rumors that strokes are being called COVID deaths, but if that's case explain why all these extra bodies started to show up and the end of February.

Seriously... Explain the bodies.

Which of our numbers are out of whack Compared to other hard hit countries? Our case rate and our death rate per 1 million of population is right in line with many countries in Europe. Yeah we have more cases, but we’ve done a lot less to stop the virus and a lot more over all testing. If anything other countries numbers validate we are not exaggerating numbers in this country.

Here, this is allegedly written by Ted Nugent, but I don't care who wrote it, I agree with its intent.

"Why do I have to stay home just because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared? How about 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay home....𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay in 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 house indefinitely, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 wear a mask, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 socially distance yourself from me, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid restaurants, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid baseball games, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 stay off the roads, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 avoid malls and beaches and parks, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the made up death numbers, 𝘆𝗼𝘂 believe the media hype.


I'm done playing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb game. We are not “all in this together.” I'm not wearing 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 dumb tin foil hat anymore. I’m no longer going to be a prisoner of your fear. I'm no longer staying in my house or catering to 𝘆𝗼𝘂 because 𝘆𝗼𝘂 are scared. I'm not wearing a mask and I'm not staying 6 feet away from you anymore because I'm not afraid of you. You are not my enemy and if I get sick, it's not because of 𝘆𝗼𝘂, it's because of me and my system, which not only have I been addressing for quite some time, but I also know how to treat if I get sick.
This virus (or whatever it is) is already circulating. Millions of people have already encountered it, as it's been circulating around the world probably since last September. You WILL have to confront this thing, if you haven’t already. There is no way around it, unless you lock yourself up in your house and it somehow doesn't manage to hop on some mail or some groceries that you ordered online.

𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not an excuse to destroy America. 𝗬𝗢𝗨𝗥 fear is not my fear and your fear does not have the right to interfere with my life, my job, my income or my future as a free American citizen. So if you're scared, you can just put your tin foil hat on, or even wrap foil all around your whole body - or around your whole house if you wish - but please keep your fear contained to your little corner of the world and don't contaminate me or my family or my Country. "

Provide the data please. Not news media, not data from a politician - actual scientific data.

I'm not saying every death can't be contributed to COVID-19. There have indeed been deaths as there would with any novel virus. There have also been numerous instances of "double-dipping" on the death counts - especially up in the Northeast. It makes the news for about a minute then you never hear of it again and more times than not I haven't seen the data corrected - and that really only includes long-term care facility deaths who died outside of long-term care facilities (in hospitals) but were counted as both a death at the hospital as well as the long-term care facility.

Also - there have been errors in data collecting when it comes to comorbidities - like I alluded to - but in a lot of instances those are also being double dipped and counted in each category. I'm not even saying it's all on purpose - probably more times than not its human error and lack of communication as to how someone should be counted. So person A collecting data puts down "heart attack," person B working for a different agency sees a positive test and puts down "COVID-19." Its very easy to get skewed numbers.

Just look at the body count, ignore the cause. One of the columns shows what percent of normal the weekly death toll was. It’s been above 100% since late February. Also remember reporting lags 2-4 weeks. So numbers less than 4 weeks old will be revised up.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm

“Does anyone notice no one dies from the flu anymore?”

That was the question you attempted to answer with a graph that lumped three viruses together on one line item. That could mean there are no pneumonia or flu deaths being recorded at all and the graph only shows Covid deaths but is labeled as pneumonia, flu and Covid, right?

How in the world does posting that graph with no context answer Bob’s question about flu deaths? (By the way, Bob’s question was more rhetorical than a question that could be answered with anything other than a graph showing flu deaths this year on a single line item.)

All of the above is still with all due respect. You’re acting a little “woe is me” over all of this, in my opinion. Your math post and the graph post are without context, key points and, in one case, an operative word.

Did you notice that the CDC took out the "non covid pnuemonia" death category? It was higher than the covid death category until they changed it. I wonder why the CDC would take that category out and blend it in with other categories?

Looking at the 2nd graph you provided - you are saying there are magically tons of bodies that CANNOT be explained based on a fact we are only 4% above normal? Really? Please see my above statement as to how we can easily account for a MINOR 4% above average (which I would venture some years we're above and some we are below...that's why its an AVERAGE).

And also to add: I never said the virus wasn't real and hasn't killed anyone. But say we were at 100% normal averages without it - we are talking about a virus that's raised the total mortality over a 4 month period by only 4%? Which happens in really bad flu years no problem - yet we don't bat an eye or shut down the economy, etc ad nauseam. So again - that just proves that it is not that bad. Not to diminish anyone who has died - but really - all this over that? Come on dude.

If you think that's an attack you need to toughen up dude. People disputing your arguments with facts is not an attack. Someone telling you your argument is stupid is not an attack. I do apologize for calling you stupid - I should have said that is a stupid argument to make. So for that - I do apologize.

But really - other than me calling you stupid - no one has personally attacked you.

Let's try not to call one another stupid (yes, there are times that I need to heed my own advice). I can say this about Allison - even though he and I disagree on quite a number of things, we also share alot of common moral ground. Online, it's easy to forget about that common ground because we're so intensely focused on the disagreements.

Pitbulls.

Today has been epic!

Allison is a good guy. Worthy of respect.

Check your math dude. The average from 2/29/2020 to 5/30/2020 (the last fully updated week) is 116% of normal deaths. The expected weekly death toll during that period is 53,519 people during a normal year. That's a 14 week period. So if we multiple the average by 14 weeks, we get an expected number of dead people of 749,276 during a normal year during that same period. Instead we have 891,995 dead people during that period. 142,719 extra bodies. It's all black and white in that spreadsheet. So unless you are arguing they are just plain fabricating deaths you need to explain what's going on. The next best theory presented other than COVID is pitbulls. Could be.

Been some real mojo in the OT. A rare day indeed.

I was pointing to others as well as you. You do know the guy who you said was right your first attempt was trying to correlate the 7500 deaths per year from last year to this year as a way to try to ignore the influences of Covid, yet you picked me.

Also, for the reasons from the first argument, or the one which I was responding to at the time, why was that graph bad?
It showed how Covid has changed the death rate for PIC, which was its intent. How it affected my math error I have no clue. I still don't understand what you think that graph disproved.
Something made that line go wayyyyy up.

Yall did good

Also, just to be completely clear, I'm not advocating for another shut down. I'm just arguing COVID-19 is real. It's killed a pile of people. It'll continue to kill a pile of people. We are probably in the 3rd inning of a 9 inning game. Death rate is likely somewhere between .3 - .7%. That's 3 to 7 times worse than the regular flu, but a full order of magnitude less than they originally thought.

The old and immune compromised should continue to shelter in place. The rest of us should wear mask, wash our hands, social distance where we can... and get on with our lives.

Why is the death rate worse here than it is anywhere else in the world?

It’s not John. 8 counties have a higher death rate than we do per capita. Including the UK, France, Spain, Italy, and Sweden.

I've always thought we should have had someone in leadership, national or state that would lay out, via graphs or other means making a clear case what could happen if we did X or Y or Z.

AN EXAMPLE, so nobody thinks its based on fact,

If you put up three graphs, one showing no measures, what would you expect. Something everyone was made aware of.
1) Under no measures as cases climbed and people worried, there would be some local things done to protect themselves.
To me it could and would include some measure of complaint to the leadership to protect the public. City, state and national.
If little or nothing is done what could happen.

2)Under some measures, distancing, face masks and asking people to not go out unless you need to. Don't go to the park if its crowded.

3)Under extreme measures, all from 2 and closing some business, some public services, closing some events.

Give estimates what they think could be obtained by different levels, emphasizing that public compliance had an effect on the outcome and will determine movement to a lower or higher level of restrictions. I think a trusting public would do better than a skeptical public.
The public has a low sense of cooperation, IMO. If we had worked together and understood the reasons we could have done much better. Maybe we could have not closed most of the businesses we did.

IMO.

Ted hasn't been relevant since about 1978.

Could be the overall general health, obesity etc of Americans.

Guarantee that will be an attributable factor.

You’re born, you pay taxes then you die. End of story.

I was a scientist, published in peer reviewed journals, taught graduate students and was the advisor to several, but not in the field of epidemiology. As I read your statement, I quickly came to the conclusion that you are a fake scientist and clueless. Your argument is far from convincing.

Lol-
It does not surprise me at all you have been some kind of professor-
That makes three profs that post in here that, well, I think I’ll just stop here-
But I will say you guys don’t make me confident in your profession-
Actually you seem to look down your nose a lot-

And yes, I know you all feel superior, we see that-
That’s ok, again, just another observation-

Definition of a Professor

Someone to lazy to get a real job

And someone not smart enough to dig ditches

well here ya go professor doomngloom, how about a press conference by the very officials in charge of one states covid response.
ALL DEATHS COUNT AS COVID, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU DIED. (caps were because it is after 5pm and I figure you already hit the sauce).

https://www.facebook.com/lesa.fisherpatten/videos/3151129788277372/


this is what every state is doing for the most part, heart attack/covid, you died from covid. stroke out and have covid, you died from covid. how about alzheimers, yep, got the wuhan flu you died because of the wuhan flu.

do ya see the problem here yet?

oh, forgot all the nursing home deaths due to wuhan flu, all those poor old folks that got sent back with a positive diagnosis. imagine that in a liberal/socialist state, why pay for anymore medicaid when you can just kill em off and blame it on wuhan flu?

or

You have 8 weeks in there that are not meaningful. The virus didn’t take off until late February and the last 4 weeks don’t have all the numbers in there yet as not all states have reported them. I’ve already stated all that twice before.

https://www.lucianne.com/2020/07/01...economies_closed_indefinitely_37879.html

Taxidermy is not considered science.

Not relevant to leftist socialist marxists or communists, but to conservatives, very relevant. So,if you say he isn't relevant, well that is understandable.

Wow!! So, cboone is now my OT hero.....I don't really agree with Coach H's assessment that life's a bitch and then you die....unless you're like tallbermudatifway....because 5 more years of Mr. T may kill them. Reading all this [censored] makes me think one thing, there is violence coming...and I don't mean aunt teefa or blm or snowflake passive aggressive pretend violence.....but absolute had enough of the bull, and your time on earth is finished violence...November should be awesome!!

I love uncle Ted, but he’s a raving idiot about 50% of the time. Also Fred Bear came out in 1995 so he’s been awesome until at least then.

You're a retired hypochondriac who calls yourself donothin. I still outrank you by every measure.

This thread is fascinating to me. I’m not one to argue about these things much and based on most of the responses not many folks are re-evaluating their positions. I do, however, wonder about a point that seem to be common. The idea that the lock down is a ploy of the Democratic Party to ruin the economy simply to displace Trump. I really don’t know how you get to that place. The Democrats have never been that coordinated or intentional in anything they do. The Democratic party is too heterogeneous to execute something this complex. Logic would seem to support that the party in power has more influence than party out of power.

Also, if this was a USA only thing, it might lend a little credence to that viewpoint. However, the entire world is affected (infected) and responding in the same manner with lock downs, social distancing, masks and hygiene and, for the most part, with a much greater degree of success. I will never understand why learning from the experience of others is such an anathema for some folks.

Awe....butthurt because you can't accept the raw truth of my statement? Go tip a statue.

If our numbers are higher than all other countries in the world then either they are ALL lying or we are lying.

There is no other option when the virus is the common denominator.

Good to see we have a consensus

go tip a statue...

We're getting close. We now know that protests don't spread Covid-19. Bars and restaurants should hold protest happy hours.

never let a good pandemic go to waste or something like that, know who said it?

they saw the opportunity they wanted and jumped on it, why is it that all of a sudden (less than 2 months) cops are bad and should either die or be disbanded so cps can patrol the streets? why all of a sudden is this friggin bs pandemic so all fired important that states are willing to shut completely down and ruin millions of lives of working people, care to guess which cities/states will feel it the most?

dems did not sit down and dream this up, they saw an opportunity and took it and meanwhile the republican party sits on its laurels again and does nothing. go friggin figure!

p.s. we are still dealing with their bs russia collusion krap, for 4 yrs.

Did you get this beer reviewed? I'm pretty sure it's not valid prior to that, and remember, more is better

Conservatives sure do love their draft dodgers. Never understood the adoration of someone who chit his pants to get out of military service. But hey, he's another trump a**-kisser, so who cares about his past...right?

This whole thing is beyond belief. Move it to the sewer (Bunker).

Why? This affects all of us. Add to the discussion or move on.

Lord man just don’t open the dang thread!

A+++ They love Bush, they adore trump but oh my .John kerry rich kid who volunteered and put his weenie on the line in Nam? Rove butchered him.

Was the Dirk Diggler name already taken when you opened your new account?

Just paying taxes is the life’s a bitch part txmaster.

Yes sir coach.....just saying overall, life is good

Indeed.

[
A+++ They love Bush, they adore trump but oh my .John kerry rich kid who volunteered and put his weenie on the line in Nam? Rove butchered him.[/quote]

What happened to the DD14 he was suppose to provide.....rumor has it that he received a "general discharge"? seems there were a lot of questions about his time in Nam...how bout Clinton?...….

You should avoid watching news for the next few weeks! More B.S. news!

While running errands today with the wife I stayed in the truck while she ran into a business in a retail center. Couple of doors down was a vape/smoke shop. There is no mask mandate in this county we were in. I kinda got a kick out of the ones wearing a mask into a store to buy cigarettes and douche flute juice.

Not sure what they were buying matters.

I don't care what they buy. You surely can see just a little humorous irony in it though. Its meant to be funny......laugh a little.

It wasn't funny. Sorry.

No worries.

Snopes is a left wing propaganda/fake news website. The owners are huge Dem donors.

Next.

Bet you cannot state just one time when they were wrong.

Must be true. That's what CNN says.

Can too

Wrong or inaccurate ?

Are you really a law officer?

I'm enjoying reading these posts on current events, got to get my post count up and get in that Bunker I guess.

Douche flute juice That is greatness

I concur gentleman. I ain’t mad.

But you will not. That is always your answer.

Leftists still bitter that their Queen "Her Thighness" did not win the election? It will be another 4 years of liberal tears.

Snopes Fails

Not taking a side here but I have wondered for some time what the real bragging rights should be beating a woman in the race for POTUS. A woman with a highly questionable record in Govt. Just never seemed like the bar was all that high to start with.

Can't argue with that. With Billary, I don't think the bar could be any lower. Still it was "their" cream of the crop. Let that sink in a bit.

He/ she is a bout as low as Whale chit.

The herd here claims one Snopes mistruth when it was really a different perspective depending on a vantage point. This particular liberal (Snopes creator) takes pride in his fact checking and does a good job of it though you’ll get flamed on here for elucidating the truth. I don’t give two squirts what the OT popular opinion is..... snopes is a good resource to shine a bright light upon 99% of the BS you see. As soon as it claims Gates is a lizard man it will be 100%.

But surely you see we are splitting hairs. You say it’s 116% of the norm but really isn’t it just a 16% increase? 100% is just the norm. I see here a 4% increase. It seems like the media is off and running with these “ stacked up bodies” that literally don’t exist.

This is looking more and more like a corporate hospital money grab as much as I hate to say it. People on hospice taking multiple milligram pushes of morphine every two hours are dying of Covid? C’mon..... I don’t see respiratory depression as a symptom of Covid. There’s far more going on here then I initially realized.

Let’s use our brains folks.... big money is at stake and the narrative is being forced upon us.

J

Dr. Bean I thought I would never say this but I think you are right. The Wuflu prince is set in his ways and will not change his ways.

Hospitals went broke on the first wave. Won't happen again.

Josh is a sharp cookie and is great with the numbers. I always appreciate his perspective.

Meh

Never met a sharp cookie unless you're talking about a praline then it's just burnt sugar and nuts...