Texas Fishing Forum

New Kayak for bad back

Posted By: J-Moe

New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 02:44 PM

I currently have a Feelfree Moken 10 kayak. I wasn't able to sit in it for more than an hour without severe back pain. I installed an elevated marine boat seat and it allowed me to continue kayaking. I am looking to purchase a kayak with the best quality seat to support my back.

I am looking to spend $1000 or less on a new / used kayak in the 11 to 12 foot range. I've seen the 10 foot Feelfree Lure for $1000 and I'm impressed with the seat but since I have a Moken I know how painfully slow they are.

I've found a new Wilderness Ride 115 with the Airmax 3 adjustable elevated seating system, a used Native 12, Pescador Pro 12, etc that all have the solid seats and not the strap in type. I refuse to buy one like that, I can never adjust them properly to get the support I need, nor elevate them.

Since I haven't tried any of these I would like to hear the opinions of my more knowledgeable TFF buddies
Posted By: zimmer0

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 02:55 PM

Agreed on the seat of the Lure but absolute [censored] paddle-ability (?). Not efficient at all. Had the 13.5 and upgraded to a Native Slayer Propel with the lawn chair style. I can fish all day comfortably. They also have additional pads available for added support. The Wilderness seat is also very comfortable and would have a slight edge over the Native and Pescador bc its adjustable elevation.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 03:00 PM

Originally Posted By: zimmer0
Agreed on the seat of the Lure but absolute [censored] paddle-ability (?). Not efficient at all. Had the 13.5 and upgraded to a Native Slayer Propel with the lawn chair style. I can fish all day comfortably. They also have additional pads available for added support. The Wilderness seat is also very comfortable and would have a slight edge over the Native and Pescador bc its adjustable elevation.


Thanks, when I googled back pain and kayaks the Native and Wilderness Air system did both get mentioned often.
Posted By: Jimbo

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 03:01 PM

I hear you about the bad back since I've already had back surgery and many, many back injections that have pretty much failed to help.
I can't sit in my car very long without nerve pain that shoots down to my ankle from my hip downward.
That said I have a Wilderness Systems Commander 120 that I can sit in for several hours and not experience the amount of pain I feel from just driving.
In fact last Saturday I fished for several hours and thought, "What happened to my pain?" Seriously I don't know if it was the fact I was fishing or it was the kayak, but all the pain meds and all hasn't relieved my pain.
That was the first time since my surgery over a year that I fished from my kayak, but the seat has always been comfortable to me. It also has the high captains perch but you don't have a backrest with that seat as you are basically sitting on top of the kayak.
It's super stable and light enough for me to handle as I take the seat out and keep it bare bones when I load it or unload it without a problem.
You might consider that one especially if you fish the back creeks and ponds as I think I've seen some of your reports it would be ideal.
I would add that everyone is different, so I would look around and test them out before putting down the cash.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 03:16 PM

Thanks Jimbo, Great information from someone who shares my experience. I'll check it out.
Posted By: Fisherman13

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 03:23 PM

I bought a pelican catch 120 its been great. Had high low lawn chair style seat. Really stable paddles decent its not as fast as my old pescador but I can stand in it easy. It is 11'8" long and 34" wide. 400 lb capacity. It was $750 new. The seat is comfy, way better than the seat my old pescador had. Here are some pics

Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 05:50 PM

Thanks Fisherman13, I saw this one in my search as well.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 05:56 PM

I have continued to read more reviews and get input from friends. The more research I do the more I am leaning toward the Native Ultimate 12. Even though the seat doesn't raise and lower on this model it still sits a couple inches off the floor. I found that enough to help relieve the stress on my back along with a firm seat.

I actually read one review in which the person had both the ride and Native and said the Native was far better.

The other thing is it only weighs 49 lbs. My best friend keeps pushing me in this direction as well. He loves that hybrid design and says I might finally be able to keep up with him, LOL
Posted By: Tallgrass05

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 06:43 PM

I have the Native Ultimate Tandem 14.5, which is longer than the Ultimate 12. It's very stable because you sit lower compared to a SOT, and it's fast and comfortable. It's a different ride than a sit-on-top, though, and with the open hull, you have fewer options for attaching a pile of gear.
Posted By: Jimbo

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: J-Moe


The other thing is it only weighs 49 lbs. My best friend keeps pushing me in this direction as well. He loves that hybrid design and says I might finally be able to keep up with him, LOL


I almost bought the Ultimate before I bought my Commander.
Only reason I bought the Commander was the sales guy at ACK didn't have a Commander 120 on the floor to show me, but he had his personal kayak in the back of the shop. He showed it to me, and it was like new with no marks on the bottom like new condition and I made him an offer and he took it....If I hadn't gotten such a good deal I would have gone with the Native.
With a bad back you have to go with the lighter kayak!
That's an idea you might try if you go to ACK since they have rental kayaks that they may be wanting to liquidate.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 07:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Jimbo
Originally Posted By: J-Moe


The other thing is it only weighs 49 lbs. My best friend keeps pushing me in this direction as well. He loves that hybrid design and says I might finally be able to keep up with him, LOL


I almost bought the Ultimate before I bought my Commander.
Only reason I bought the Commander was the sales guy at ACK didn't have a Commander 120 on the floor to show me, but he had his personal kayak in the back of the shop. He showed it to me, and it was like new with no marks on the bottom like new condition and I made him an offer and he took it....If I hadn't gotten such a good deal I would have gone with the Native.
With a bad back you have to go with the lighter kayak!

That's an idea you might try if you go to ACK since they have rental kayaks that they may be wanting to liquidate.


Awesome, thanks Jimbo. I'm convinced now that the Native Ultimate 12 is my choice. I would like to get the one with the adjustable height but it is $300 more. I suspect I could always upgrade later, if needed. Or see if I can squeeze $300 more from my wife, not grin
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Tallgrass05
I have the Native Ultimate Tandem 14.5, which is longer than the Ultimate 12. It's very stable because you sit lower compared to a SOT, and it's fast and comfortable. It's a different ride than a sit-on-top, though, and with the open hull, you have fewer options for attaching a pile of gear.


Thanks, great insights. I thought about that too but I never use electronics. I do see your point of being a different ride and it will be more difficult to fly fish. Those items concern me but I think I can adjust. I was told I can still raise the seat up with some cushions so that should help with the fly fishing part.

Really appreciate the input
Posted By: Shaun Russell

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 08:24 PM

I'm having back problems right now. I use a Wilderness Systems Commander and I like the seat a lot. I've had a Ride115 and 135 that were comfortable too.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 10:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Shaun Russell
I'm having back problems right now. I use a Wilderness Systems Commander and I like the seat a lot. I've had a Ride115 and 135 that were comfortable too.


Thanks Shaun, I've always wanted the Ride 115 since they came out. I still do, but that 78 lbs is really the only problem. At 53, with a bad back it's probably smarter for me to get something lighter. I still intend on transporting it in the bed of my truck.

Sounds like there is something special about the Commander. That's 2 votes. I didn't get a good feel about the high seat position on that yak though.
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/16/17 10:12 PM

I spoke with the guys at ACK. They said they could upgrade the Native Ultimate 12 to the high/low adjustable seat for around 120 dollars. I was worried if I purchase the lower seat and still had back pain I wouldn't be able to get the better seat. That's a win. I'm first in line to look at a used one tomorrow. I'll sit in it and get a good feel for it. Hopefully it works out. Thanks for all you inputs. It's been a great benefit, as always.
Posted By: BayouFennec

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/17/17 01:25 PM

sounds like you've done your research. i'd be interested to know what you think after a few trips in the Native 12. also, i fished one time up Nails Creek with you and your "friend" ..... i doubt any of us could keep up with him. good luck and i hope to see you out there again sometime

john
Posted By: karstopo

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/19/17 07:06 AM

I'm 54 and have lower back and hip joint issues. I used to fish out of a WS Tarpon 140 but found that sitting for long periods in that seat aggravated my back and hips. I have the Commander 140 now and rarely use the low seat. I paddle from the bench seat and stand a lot while fishing. Standing eases my back and hip pain.

The major drawback to the Commander is its about 80 pounds. It does have a skid plate so it can be dragged across short distances if you don't want to go through the extra effort of a kayak cart. It's always nice when there's a friend nearby to help lift the kayak into the truck. It's not that I can't handle the 80 pounds, but carrying such an awkward shape like an 80 pound kayak very far doesn't help my back.

An ideal kayak for me would have similar stability and deck design of the Commander, but weigh about half as much. That Native Ultimate 12 sounds nice at 49 pounds. The Pelican Catch 120 looks good too although I'd want to remove the foot pegs as they look like sure fly line grabbers.
Posted By: b737

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/19/17 12:57 PM

Have both Ultimate 12 and Ultimate 12 FX. And a bad back/neck. Go with the Ultimate 12 FX. More expensive, but much better on the back. Bad back, get a trailer. Ultimate 12 FX, with seat in high position (not really that high, still very stable), the FX is much easier to get in and out of. I think the design is more stable than the Ultimate 12. Speed about the same. The "BIG" advantage of the FX is the seat. Two position up/down, slides back and forth to weight distribution with just two knobs, while you are seated. Good luck
Posted By: Jimbo

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/19/17 03:20 PM

When you are talking bad back, hips it's more about the weight of the kayak since you have to think about how you are transporting and if you can handle a heavy kayak in cases of having to drag or use a kayak cart to get to the water and back.
I've got the Commander120 and ran into the problem of having to get from the parking lot to the water which was about 60 yards. I apologize if you think 60 yards isn't that far, because you probably don't have serious back issues.
I take the seat completely out to load it on my roof rack. A trailer would be much, much better, but not possible in my case, since I don't have room for another trailer.
If you have serious back issues any added weight is a huge negative, and the Native Ultimate is probably you best bet as far as everything else considered.
You could also go with a sit inside kayak which a ten footer will weight in at around 38 pounds, but with less room for gear and maybe harder to get in and out of.
Those who have back issues will understand that even 20# or so can make a huge difference.
Posted By: Brad R

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/19/17 05:07 PM

J-Moe,

I took my Meyers Sportspal S-15 out last night, sat in the middle section, stood about half the time, caught lots of fish. I used a stake-out pole and stayed in shallow water (< 9'). It is wide, so I use a 280 paddle. I'd say I get 2.5 mph just paddling casually. There are shorter models but all the same width: wide!

I only bring this up because I used to carry along a folding lawn chair and just straddled a thwart bar with it. Very comfortable. Very good for two big guys, or taking out kids. 705 lbs. capacity. Up to 5HP outboard rating for this one, less for others.

As I have mentioned a few times, if a canoe could hold water position as well as a kayak, or in certain situations too, I'd likely have never gone the kayak route at all.

Pretty cool. I'll try to get some pics soon.

Brad
Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/20/17 02:05 PM

Thanks for all the continued advise. I bought an Ultimate 12 used this weekend. I took it out last night.

The bad news is I was still uncomfortable in the low seat position and I broke my 8 weight rod, ugh. So I plan on getting the high seat installed, as well as, some fly rod holders.

Otherwise, I was extremely happy with the design, weight, speed and stability of the yak.

b737, I did look at the FX model but it would have cost me 500 dollars more than the used one I purchased. The seat will only cost me 120 to install. The used Yak also came with a spray skirt, anchor, anchor pole, 240 cm bending branches paddle and Garmin fish finder. I had a budget of $1000 and all of this including the new seat fit in that budget. The FX would have been close to $1500, after tax.

For the type of fishing I do in creeks, having to transport the kayak over land and the simplicity of using a fly rod and vest (rather than spinning gear and tackle boxes) make the yak a perfect choice for me. I really think the higher seat, adjusted properly will allow me to be more comfortable. I'm glad to hear the high seat made a difference b737.

Posted By: Tallgrass05

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/20/17 06:28 PM

Are you using fly rods because you don't want to carry a bulky tackle box? I usually take 2 spinning rods and no tackle box. I take a single-level tray and velcro it between my legs. See the white strips in the first photo. Four years and the velcro is still holding tight. Tackle tray is in the second photo, easy to reach and no sliding around. I never use the rod holders I bought, I lay the rods behind me or in front. The green rubbery shelf liner wrapped around the front thwart tube eliminates glare and keeps it from clinking when I lay my rod across it.



Posted By: J-Moe

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/20/17 07:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Tallgrass05
Are you using fly rods because you don't want to carry a bulky tackle box? I usually take 2 spinning rods and no tackle box. I take a single-level tray and velcro it between my legs. See the white strips in the first photo. Four years and the velcro is still holding tight. Tackle tray is in the second photo, easy to reach and no sliding around. I never use the rod holders I bought, I lay the rods behind me or in front. The green rubbery shelf liner wrapped around the front thwart tube eliminates glare and keeps it from clinking when I lay my rod across it.


No, I just don't fish with spinning gear very often. I appreciate the pictures. These will give me good ideas on mounting fly rod holders, etc.
Posted By: Warhawk

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/27/17 01:48 AM

Another bad back kayaker here. I have Jackson and Native kayaks with the lawn chair style seat. One of the Jacksons has the old style gray seat, one has the new black seat with an air bladder for low back support.

All of them are comfortable, I think the new style Jackson seat is the best. Add the low back support and it's far and away the best for me.

Take a look at the Jackson Tripper 12. It's a hybrid, similar to the Native Ultimate. It's the same hull as the Jackson Kilroy and you'll find a lot more writeups on the Kilroy.
Posted By: Kensho TX

Re: New Kayak for bad back - 06/27/17 03:06 AM

After my back surgery over a decade ago I sold my ocean kayak, just could take sitting for that long. I now SUP. No back pain and does wonders to strengthen the muscles that protect your spine. Just a thought.
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