Videos of All the New Pedal Kayaks from ICAST

Hey guys, just got back from ICAST, and we've been putting up video walkthroughs of the four new pedal kayaks and Hobie's new Mirage Drive 180 with REVERSE on our site if you guys want to check them out:

Wilderness Systems Radar 115 & 135: http://bit.ly/Wildy_Radar115

Old Town Predator PDL (won Best Boat at the show): http://bit.ly/OldTownPredatorPDL

Hobie's Mirage Drive 180 with REVERSE: http://bit.ly/HobieMirage180

Perception Pescador Pilot 12.0, the least expensive of the group: http://bit.ly/Perception_Pilot12

FeelFree Overdrive, the only pedal/motorized combo drive: http://bit.ly/FeelFree_Overdrive


Pics:

Wildy Radar 115


Perception Pescador Pilot 12.0


Old Town Predator PDL


Hobie Mirage Drive 180

Good Lord that is some cool stuff. Thanks for posting.

Decisions, decisions, decisions!

Thank you for posting the videos. Those are some cool kayaks. Hobie had to do something to respond to the lack of reverse but their implementation seems like the least flexible of the bunch - it's not hands free.

I wonder when Jackson is going to enter the pedal market?

They probably have one in the works as you type.

You have to love it! They are all scrambling to top each other and it benefits everyone.

I really like the way the drive in the Pesky folds up out of the way....

They are all similar and different at same time. LOL.. All are circular peddle. Is that because the Hobie is patented?

Added the video for the FeelFree Overdrive. This is the only drive on the market that offers pedal/motor option in one drive. Simply pop in the tallboy-sized motor head, pedals are released, and now you have motorized power.

It's not cheap though (price in video).

Yes, Hobie's Mirage Drive is patented. I'm curious as to why Native didn't opt to patent theirs. Perhaps they couldn't for some reason?

If they simply chose not to, I wonder if they're regretting that now. They're still "First with Reverse," but are now "One of Six with Reverse."

That Feelfree motor/pedal setup is pretty cool.

Trying to buy a kayak these days is pretty overwhelming!

I suppose Native has little to patent since the system it uses is found on countless bicycles and in so many other devices for so many years, decades, even longer. If there is something intrinsic to it that is patentable, I think seeing a very similar unit not long ago in a Chinese "copy" would be the test case. But, no, I don't see anything Native could attack in, say, the new Wilderness Helix Pedal Drives. If so, Native would have been sued by whom, Schwinn?

If I had to make a guess, I'd say the Feel Free hybrid manual/power drive is the least likely to succeed in the market. Too bad because it is certainly very progressive. The best doesn't always win in the market place; if so, we'd still be using Word Perfect and not MS Word.

But, the new Wilderness kayaks like the Radar? For these, you can paddle, manually pedal OR step up to a power drive. So, the flexibility will account for a lot of sales while the Feel Free has limited itself to just a small percentage of the kayak market who will pay that sticker price.

Native dropped the ball, I think. It did bring out a less expensive pedaling option and that is good; but, with the new power units gaining attention, it really HAD to come through with its trolling motor mount, something it promised a whole year ago that would cost around a $100 and allow Native Propel owners the opportunity to drop in a small trolling motor. That whole rigging: a hundred bucks for a mount, a battery and a small trolling motor? It would come in at a fraction of the cost of the power units at the 2016 ICAST. One should have been sitting on display. The sad part is the mount is so simple that it could have been built in literally thousands of machine shops across the USA. And, yet it is still not on the market last I looked.

I also think Old Town Predator's new pedal unit will never become much of a market presence.

I have no opinion on the new Hobie Drive. I think the shifting apparatus is okay and the penguin drive system is certainly more powerful than the pedal systems, but for fishing, the pedals work more like someone driving a unicycle (back and forth pedaling constantly) and not like shifting gears as in the Hobie. Anyway, still a big improvement for the Hobie. Now, if they'd only upgrade the appearance of their kayaks. They look so clunky to me, not very clean lines, too heavy, and on and on.

I give Wilderness the nod this year for making most progress in the kayak marketing war. If only it had put the pedal drive on the ATAK 120, it would have been a blow out.

Lots of opinions. Mine. Brad

Loving that FeelFree. I didn't hear how long they said the battery would last. Anyone??

I agree with you about the Hobie's. I don't care for that pull cord for forward/reverse thingy. Just seems awkward.

But I don't agree with your opinion on the FeelFrees. Their drive system is reverse compatible with all 11.5 and 13's with the pod. And it seems easier to use. The others you have to pull way up etc.

BassFever,

Sure, I think we agree. I did say that I thought the new Feel Free was "progressive" and I guess by that, I meant innovative. It is just that it comes paired up so there is no way to just buy the manual element without the motor element. So, it relegates it, assuming it works well as advertised and gets good reviews on the water, to those who will spend several extra thousand dollars for a motor driven kayak.

There is a market there; it just isn't a very large segment within the fishing kayak arena.

I could be wrong but I think manual pedal fishing kayaks in the 3 grand range, decked out at likely around 4 grand, that this more or less tops out the market in terms of price.

Gosh, I do like the view of a Hobie PA 12 and 14 from overhead, but it looks like something a kid modeled out of play dough from so many angles out of water. And, they are so impossibly heavy, the PAs that is. I do think the Outbacks, the newer ones, look much more stylish, that is for sure. And, another thing, Hobie's limited color selection and what they are. They look dull to me.

Hobie really needs to "hire" a make-up/design artist or someone like that to work with their engineers. The yaks just lack sex appeal. Think motorcycles here, where not only the motor counts, but the bike's appearance matters so much.

As Native has dropped the ball this year a bit, I think Hobie is long overdue knocking out some new molds, new colors.

Glad for all the new competition; it will make for better kayaks, better options.

Brad

We asked them for details on how the battery would connect to the motor or if there would be integrated power or what. They declined to comment, simply stating "It is still a prototype so nothing is set in stone. Sorry." I asked if they could give us ANY hint at what direction they were leaning, and they stopped responding.

With our Facebook post reaching over 15,000 people so far, you'd think they'd at least take the time to respond to us. Oh well. I'll let you guys know if I get any updates.

Brad R, makes sense about bicycles. That seems the most likely reason they couldn't get a utility patent - it's not really new technology, but moreso a new application for existing technology.

As for Hobie vs. pedal reverse, I dislike the backwards pedaling motion. I like that with the Hobie, you're doing the same motion you're used to. And the Hobie drive was quick to switch, and I feel like it puts a lot of strain on a pedal drive when you're pedaling forwards, then all of a sudden come to a quick halt and push it into reverse.

My biggest question is durability. The new Hobie drive has a lot more moving parts, which to me always means a lot more things that can break. Repairing the Mirage Drive is not cheap. Unfortunately, we likely won't have a real answer to durability of each drive for another year or two. Curious to see which ones hold up well and which ones don't.

I noticed the bearings on the Perception drive are not sealed. Curious if that becomes an issue.

I felt that the Old Town drive was the most polished at this point in time, but at only $200 less expensive than the Minn Kota Predator XL, I'm concerned about their success because of the price point. I was also disappointed that the drive wouldn't retrofit into any of their existing boats, as I was very much hoping for a pedal drive ATAK as well. I'm looking forward to testing the Radar once it's ready.

For me, the single biggest advantage Hobie still has is how quickly you can lay those fins up against the boat when approaching an obstacle: simply push the pedals apart. Some of the pedal drives are easier to pull up than others, but none of them are even close to as simple or as fast as Hobie's solution. Perception's actually seemed to be the easiest/quickest to pull up. Old Town cut out some of the hull where the drive goes into to make aligning the props easier for take out, but none of them have truly solved the whole "my props aren't aligned with the hole and I can't pull my drive up" issue.

Looking forward to seeing which ones progress before going into production. FeelFree's and Wildy's seemed to need the most polishing before hitting the market in my opinion. But with Spring 2017 launches, they still have plenty of time to fine-tune them.

Regardless, it's an exciting time to be a kayak angler. Regardless of which brand you pledge allegiance to, more options and competition is a good thing for everyone.

I agree Robert that Wildy still has a little bit to go before the pedal system is market ready. Im not sure how we are going to be able to switch the rudder cable from side steering to foot steering when you just want to paddle, but its supposed to be capable of it. I think Wildy has come up with a pretty great solution for shallow water deployment with the quick release foot pedal that shoots the drive clear of hull.

One thing I am wondering about is how the Hobie reverse will actually work when trying to hold a windy point. Constantly having to reach down and pull the cord seems a little too hands on for a pedal system. Kind of like trying to parallel park a stick shift. I agree with whoever said that Hobie needs to find a way to switch between forward and reverse with a foot control.

Just my thoughts

from one of the many youtube vids that i saw the guy that "invented/designed it said something along the lines of that you could buy jsut pedals and then add motor at a different time. the prices i have heard are 800-1200 range.. maybe 800 for pedals and then 400 for the motor add on (I am assuming that you obviously buy your own battery at additional cost.) to me the 800 is no different than the hobie mirage drive costs...

keep in mind i dont work for them and maybe the guy was just spouting off stuff and they will decide against selling the motor as an add on later.

the real question in my mind is what do you do with your fishfinder if you have the pedal drive installed. hang it off the side ?

I missed this before I think. The FeelFree drive does not come with both pedal and motor. The FeelFree pedal drive is going to be about $1,200. Then, for another $1,000 or so, you will be able to buy the motor head separate and it incorporates right into the pedal drive. Those prices are the estimates the owner, Jim, gave me. But they will be sold separately. You can't use the motor head without the pedal drive though, so you can pedal without motor but you can't motor without pedal.

Here's the video I linked in the OP that explains most of this and shows how it works: http://bit.ly/FeelFree_Overdrive


As for the fish finder, there are plenty of places to mount one besides in between your legs. People have been mounting 'em to Hobies for almost a decade. Mounting it on either gunnel will be out of the way of your feet, perhaps with the exception of certain 9-inch screens or an 11-inch screen. Certainly don't need to hang it off the side, haha.

i was talking about how the pedal drive takes the place of where they were installing the transducer.... not the screen... they with the lures were having people installing the screen and transducer and battery in the "pod" that is where the peddle drive was. on the bottom the transducer was recessed/ or even with the bottom of the boat.

as far as the cost... here is a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6s0EFYqwSs go to 5:45 in and e says 800 for pedal... and i misunderstood he says 1000 extra for motor. but then he says something about all in for 3500? I am guessing he is talking about buying boat/pedal drive and motor. the audio is not the greatest on the video. but it goes into a lot of detail. but like you said if you talked to the owner he probably is a better estimate than the guy that just designed it as far as costs.