Texas Team Trail and trailering

Me and my partner pre registered and were able to get on the water Friday to pre fish. We found a solid kicker that would anchor our bag and made plans accordingly to be at the closet ramp to the marina were the fish was located as this was a trailering event. The rules clearly state that you cannot launch your boat until 5:30 a.m. We were the 4th boat in line to launch and entered the marina with the other 3 boats in view as we entered the marina. As the other 3 boats we made it back to our spot and thought we would have no problem setting up on our spot waiting for first cast at 7 a.m. To our surprise there was already a boat posted up right where we were going. Apparently they used the marina service ramp which is not legal. We put it behind us and fished our butt off but after $400 dollars spent and a lot of TOW prior to the tournament I will never waist my money again!!!!!! And before anyone ask they were fishing the same tournament and it was reported to the TD.

Dang that sucks sorry to hear it

what do you mean you will "never waste your money again" like never fish a tournament because it didnt go well? Or are you referring to never fish TxTT again.

Oh no I will still fish tournaments but it won't be any TTT tourney!

Why is the "marina service ramp " not legal??

Did you get pics and/or ID off the boat and file a protest with the TD?

I'm sorry.... Not like if it wasn't trailering someone could have beat you by boat draw or driving speed. Never put your eggs in one basket. Especially if it's a bed fish.

I gotta side with OP on this one... public ramp is pretty clear. I would have been irritated.

I agree.

If it wasn't a trailering event I would be totally ok if someone beat me there but if you use an illegal method to do it then yeah I'm going to be irritated. Doug R it was reported to the TD. The marina service ramp is not a public ramp in which the rules clearly state a public ramp must be used in a trailering event. If the there were no such rule people would be launching there boat of the bank to get an advantage. If you want to have a shot at winning the TTT on Texoma you better have a good fish marked and solid pattern to complete your bag. We had the pattern down and when our kicker was no longer an option we were done. We had several other fish marked but by the time we made it to those fish there was someone there already. Oh well it is what it is, just frustrating!

Yup I agree, if they beat you to the fish is one thing but sounds like they used a ramp not available to everyone. I'd be pissed too. Being a sight fisherman, I know the importance of certain fish especially during trailer tournaments. We always make sure we are first to our fish. It's an advantage. Sounds like good grounds for protest

But also sounds like it wouldn't have mattered even if you caught her if guys were on your other fish

Lol, what does apparently mean? Didn't you have other fish marked? This wasn't the one that somebody in a legend sat on Friday trying to keep anybody else from looking at was it? Lol the one in the back on Alberta? There was some silliness going on back there.

What did the TD do?

So did they catch it? Did they cash?

No, he's never going to waist his money again. Maybe that means he won't use a money belt in the future?

Curious to hear the rest of the story.

I would be aggravated too.

This is why it is never smart money to bet on spawning bass in a tourney. If you found it, it's a safe bet someone else did as well. If missing out on one fish ruined your day, you didn't have much of a shot anyway. There will always be people looking for a way to cheat or curb the rules. Seen several times on Ray Roberts during trailer events where people had someone sitting on a spot for them them. Never saw it work out too good for those fellas. I would be willing to bet the guy who jumped your spot didn't cash a check either.

Haha waste my money again, darn grammar police. I wasn't hinging my bet on one bed fish and I'm sure several people did see it. That's why I was at the ramp at 3:30 in the morning to make sure I was going to get there first legally. If I were able to put that fish in the boat I would've cashed a check. We caught fish all day but only had 4 solid keepers.

How big was it? Did it get caught? Did the tourney director do anything about it?

We were in Grand pappy.

We didn't have a spot to race to. The boat ramps seemed really quiet at 6:45 when we launched.

Im intersted to here the entire story. This a tournament that took less then 15 pounds to cash a check- one fish can certainly make a big difference. Id be very interested to here how the tournament director handled it, how the team finished etc etc. Please share.

This^

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+1

+2

I am surprised some guys did not rent boat slips.

I just dont like tailering events period!

Trailering should not be allowed period. I do not want this trend go into a trailering discussion as the OP has a legitimate beef if his story is accurate.

The OP said he informed the TD.
Apparantly nothing was done about it if he really did.

We are ok only getting part of story, if the other team didn't place there isn't a whole lot that can be done for the op. Lets be realistic, what is the remedy?

Disqualification would impact the anglers ability to enter another TXTT tournament or other tournaments. I am not saying the team should have or should not have been disqualified. The applicable TXTT rule is below. Apparently in this case the TD did not disqualify the protested team and the OP is not satisfied with the TD's decision so he posted here to let everyone know.

11. Sportsmanship and Conduct: All contestants are required to follow high standards of sportsmanship, courtesy, safety and conservation. Any infraction of these fundamental sporting principles may be deemed cause for disqualification. Maximum courtesy must be practiced at all times, especially with regard to boating and angling in the vicinity of non-competitors who may be on tournament waters. Any act of a competitor, which reflects unfavorably upon the TXTT's effort to promote fisheries conservation, clean waters, and courtesy, shall be reason for disqualification. Other examples of conduct not complying with these standards include, but are not limited to, the following:
Disqualification from TXTT or other fishing organizations that resulted from rule violations that result in a Contestant’s honesty, integrity, character, and qualifications for entry into a TXTT event being questionable in the Tournament Director’s sole and absolute discretion.

One more question for op,did you follow the rules to file official protest, including the $100 bucks. That's pretty clear also.

whatsaweighin - Make up your mind...Are you sure this time?

What are you talking about Neal? You are quoting a section of the rules, I'm just asking if the op followed them. They are pretty black and white also. And it doesn't say the td must disqualify in the rules you quoted either.

Do we know if nothing was done? I have been the guy that got to the ramp at 3:00 am before and its payed off it in big ways. Im really interested to here the entire story..... I still would like to know if an official protest was done. What the TD did about it, etc etc. It seems we only have bits and pieces and I don't want to assume. A check from winning was a difference of 6 pounds. 1 fish if it was a good one could have made a really big difference.


Do we know the other team didnt place?

Barrett, that's the point I'm making, we don't know if they placed, we don't know where they launched from, we don't know if official protest was filed. It sounds like the op ditched his fish so we don't know what else he had. If it happened it's a bad deal but at same time there are no guarantees that that fish would have even been caught by op.

I just want to know the story. Thats all. Hopefully the OP will share the entire thing with us since he posted about a negative experience.

I totally agree. If rules were broken then DQ should be automatic and maybe be suspended from entering next tournament if proven intentional. Nothing that is done will help the OP but a message should be sent. The problem with sports today is that cheating is almost encouraged until you get caught a few times then they lower the boom but by then a precedent has been set. The downside though would be that they lose entrants due to strict ruling but that within itself would show character of the tournaments participants.

I wonder if the accused cheaters even know they broke the rules ? Had I fished this event I would probably of been DQ ed because I would have most likely used a private ramp near my home, I never heard of that rule before, but I have not fished too many large trailering events, I do remember the one the TTT had at Roberts, a shotgun start at Buck Creek ramp was a zoo, miracle somebody did not have an accident going under the bridges.

Ignorance is not a valid excuse to break the rules. It's your responsibility to know the rules, you signed the agreement saying so. I don't see OP could blame this on TXTT and forego and future tourneys with them. It's unfortunate that you guys found your "winning fish", which no one knows whether it were there on tourney day or not, and didn't have a chance to catch it. Sounds like a normal day tourney fishing to me really.

We zeroed after finding some big smallies Friday and watched the boat behind us start culling at 830... Fish move, things happen, just deal with it.

He is saying anything about finding fish and them moving he is saying they used a ramp that was not public and should have not been used that is the problem. That's why trailering events are not right.

Did the other boater admit to using a private ramp, or are you assuming the other boater "must have used a private ramp, because we got up soooo early"

Never underestimate the other persons desire to win and planning. Maybe the other boater used a public ramp and left at 2:30.

To throw a hissy fit about the tournament is kinda childish. Sounds like someone just beat you to your spot. Hell, you weren't guaranteed to catch the fish anyways. Lol. Sounds like poor plan "a" and no plan "b".

Don't have a dog in this fight but fyi you couldn't leave ramp until 530... Know the rules... Its why he was upset. I don't know where the OP went but oh well.

Well....I don't know the rules as I don't fish team trails. But....I think the other boater likely didn't cheat. It sounds like a guy is upset because his only hope and prayer went up in smoke. Haha

It happens to everyone when they are rookie tournament guys. I went through that mess a long time ago. I learned that whatever you think you have figured out, someone else has that same thing AND MORE figured out. I never cry about guys beating me at a game. I guess I wasn't breast fed. Haha. I look at what happened and what I can do next time to beat them.

Hell...for all the poster knows, the other boater could have been handicapped and had to use a different ramp. Without ALL the facts, this post just sounds like whiny cry baby stuff to me.

That's all.

The only thing I agree with what you said is about knowing all the facts. I don't fish for a living. Very few people on this board do. I guess we can't all be pros.... most of us just like to get out there and compete.

I think the issue is, the time you were allowed to leave the ramp and also the distance from any other public ramps to that spot and the OP realizing there is no way a public ramp could have been used and beat him to that spot. He could be wrong, I guess, but I'm assuming he double and triple checked the math.

And he said that he caught four other keepers, but didn't have a fifth fish and apparently the bed fish was catchable. Also, the tournament was won with 15 pounds, so having a fifth fish probably would have mattered in trying to cash a check, especially if it was a big bed fish.

I've launched at that ramp in the back of grandpappy's before when the lake was flooded. Nobody said anything to me then, but I knew I wasn't supposed to use it. I would have protested them too if I had followed the rules to a T. It's not a public ramp. It is mostly used to pull yachts out of the lake.

It took 15#s to get a check. 21 something won it.

Then the angler needed to file a formal protest. NOT come on here after-the-fact and start a thread about someone else. This kinda thread is what makes me laugh a point fingers......whah whah.

Some dudes need to know that complaining on a public forum, when it's way too late to do anything about, makes them look like they are looking for attention and trying to justify why they didn't do well.

That's all.

To finish in the top 3 it took 20+ pounds. Last paying spot was 32nd they had 14.83.

Exactly

Texoma needs a Mega ramp or to add parking at the biggest ramp if they want a blast off with a 220 boat field.

I think it's perfectly fine to bring it up here actually. Sometimes things need to be brought to attention.

Unless the OP can prove that the other boat took off from an illegal ramp per tourney rules he should have let it go and never even brought it here. Brining drama and speculation into tourney results after the fact just isn't a good idea, and absence of proof and relying on probabilities is not actionable by the TD's.

I personally have never seen tournament rules that require that a protester himself/herself be an investigator capable of providing tangible proof in order to submit a protest. The TD's job is to investigate the protested item. That TD typically starts with honest questions. Some participants will readily admit what they did, but were unaware that it was not allowed, for example. In other cases, the TD may believe there is sufficient merit to use polygraph results as part of the determination if the two outcomes may affect payout.

I didn't fish the tournament, but know many that did. I also heard the name of the team that was accused of breaking a rule. I highly doubt the team would break any rule to put themselves in jeopardy of being DQ'd and not being able to fish tournaments again. I also doubt that would risk a bad name for themselves as they win so much on the lake!

Did you see their truck and boat at the "service ramp"?

I know for a fact there is a small ramp farther back in granpappy that I've seen many locals use as a public ramp. I had a guy beat me to a spot during a trailering event because he used that ramp a couple years ago. It didn't bother me because I've seen plenty of trailers parked there. It's actually in better condition than some of the ramps on the Oklahoma side that guys use that are considered "public ramps"

Maybe TD's should have a map of what ramps can be used during trailering events on Texoma since there are so many little "public ramps" off the beaten path.

RED circle is little ramp that many have used
YELLOW circle is service ramp

Don't protest me bro!!

Sounds like another case of the "whaaaaa. Whaaaaaa"!
Guy's plans don't go according to how they wanted it to, so the option is to protest. I think if s person protests and the protest is not valid- they should be the ones to get a DQ!!! Tournament fishing is becoming a bunch of whining and tattle tail bs!

Don't have a dog in this fight but protests usually involve a polygraph to be administered that costs the tournament organization additional funds they don't want to pay. Years back my partner and I were involved in a tournament on Sandlin. Working down a bank another boat came in on plane close enough that had I had a 10' surf rod I could have clobbered the driver as he went by and cut us off. We exchanged words but let it go. At the weigh in we witnessed the team sacking their limit and after pulling 4 fish out and sacking we saw them pull two more fish out and balance beam them before sacking their 5th fish and dropping their SIXTH fish back in the live well. The rules forbid more than 5 fish in possession. We attempted to file the written protest but were belittled by the TD because in his words they would incur the $150 polygraph fee and it would not make a difference in pay to us. We stated that no polygraph was needed, just walk down and look in their live well since they had already weighed in their 5 fish. The TD still argued and we walked away and never fished that circuit again.

Well....legally they can carry 10 fish. 5 per angler. The tourney rules may say weigh in only 5 per boat. Do the rules specifically state that they can be no more than 5 fish total in the live well at one time, between the two anglers? If so...then that would be a relevant protest. But, for any body of water that I know of, it isn't illegal. Sounds like a good reason for a DQ.

Haha. I was at a tourney this weekend where another angler told me he culled a dead bass. I thought in the back of my head about that being wrong, but it wouldn't have changed the money for anyone. And he didn't get any money. So karma. Lol.

You would be surprised at how many just think they know the rules. How many read them from top to bottom ?

Nearly every team tournament only lets you have 5 in the live well with the exception of culling. If you make a cast with 6 on board you are in violation. I've never fished a trail that didn't have these rules

I had 2 that I found that were locked in and catchable both looked 6lbs side by side and were located on the Oklahoma side I took the risk and launched on the Texas side and drove across witch took me about 8min, pulled in and boat was set up on them. He caught one his first cast and the other about his 5th cast. One was 6 and the other 7 1/2. I fill your pain and frustration. I did still cash a check and had my chances. Fished the other one out there Sunday and took 12th.

If you're going to take part in a discussion, you need to educate yourself about the subject. Most all tournaments plainly state you can only possess 5 fish in your livewell.

BEFORE you make another cast, you can have more then 5. For culling reasons.

So they had to have caught that 6th fish on their last cast and come in before culling it. That is possible, only way to prove they didnt would have been a polygraph

Depends on what trail you're fishing. Here is TTT...says nothing about making another cast. It says you must cull immediately.

Bass Champs also doesn't say anything about making a cast.
17. SCORING: Will be determined by the pounds and ounces of each angler's catch during the tournament. Only Largemouth, Spotted, Red Eye or Smallmouth Bass (collectively, “Bass”) are accepted species. The limit will be FIVE Bass per team. Any Contestant who possesses more than the tournament limit at any time will have their catch for that day disqualified. The minimum official length limit for all species for the 2016 Bass Champs Qualifying Team Event will be provided at each event.

The integrity of the tournament must come first. It is the Tournament Director's responsibility to insure that the tournament is and was conducted according to the tournament rules. The circuits from professional to amateur that have the strictest, most objective and unbiased tournament directors are the most respected over the long haul. Over 20+ years of tournament fishing we have had some very good TDs and also some weak TDs in the various circuits. The worst TDs do not enforce their own rules, do not measure fish accurately and are ineffective or biased when conducting polygraphs.

Additionally, the tournament circuits that require a participant to pay a fee/deposit to report a rules violation/protest are not doing the themselves any good or with the participants that want a fair/clean tournament. In some ways these circuits requiring a fee/deposit are really saying that they do not think highly of some of their participants (customers) and are expecting frivolous claims.

I do not think that expecting area team and solo trails to meet the standards established by BASS and FLW for maintaining tournament integrity are unreasonable.

My 2 cent opinion on one of the best old rules was that you could be disqualified for not reporting another angler's rule violation. Many of us old guys grew up with this rule but I do not see it as much now. It was probably difficult to administer. Also, a rule violation is a violation whether or not it impacts who gets a check.

Well spoken Neal. Rules are rules. Whether the protester had 4 fish, no fish, or a sack of fish is irrelevant. Karma, speculation and ignorance to the rules don't have a place at any level of tournament fishing. Maybe if more used the integrity displayed the way a few pro anglers have and self reported or reported infractions THEN karma would work out.

Look at Mike's map. What are you guys griping about? You, nor Alpha knows what happened. Just as the other poster stated, how do you know he didn't have his boat in a rented slip? And before you say that's against the rules; you don't know that. Quit making statements based on assumptions. Some of these same posters on this thread are repeat whiners. The guys that fish TTT are good, get over it.
In a big field, trailering is safer. And this wasn't a shotgun start like Buck Creek.

The red circle is not a public ramp! There is only one public ramp in grandpappy. The red circle you see is a road that runs into the water. I know they used a different ramp because the showed up at the public ramp with an empty trailer at 5 o'clock and you aren't supposed to put your boat in the water until 5:30 which the rules clearl state!

It was reported to the TD and that's all I could do. I didn't want to go in there were they were because it was really tight. I talked to another angler that was right behind me pulling into the spot and he got the TX numbers and the license plate of the boat and truck and reported it. A very well known angler was set up on his first fish when he was the first boat to launch from the public ramp. The well known angler put his boat in a slip and stayed out there all night. Is that right, I don't think so.

I've read through the rules and nothing addresses what time you can launch when trailering.

You made this comment - "The well known angler put his boat in a slip and stayed out there all night. Is that right, I don't think so." If this isn't against the rules, then there is nothing wrong with what he did. Maybe it's not "right" but the angler did nothing wrong if it's not against the rules. You can't blame him.

I caught that fish ... but I wasn't in the tournament, man that was the best 12# bass I ever ate!.

They had it on the weigh in slip. I didn't pay attention to what it said regarding launching, we launched at a public ramp, at rc they listed the ramps but there are only 6 on the lake. Idk. They would have to dq about 50 people for me to get a check so I could care less.

I ran into this scenario once on texoma about 5 years ago. I knew there was no way the anglers in question could have beat us to our starting spot (which they were on) from a public ramp so I asked them where they launched. They pointed to a private ramp 50 yards from starting spot. Turns out they didn't know the rules on launching from a public ramp. We informed them of the rule, and turned around and left. Turns out they got to thinking about breaking a rule, so they called the TD who indeed informed them they broke a rule. He made them release fish in livewell and start over. All I can say is it's very frustrating when an angler reads all the rules and follows them to a "T" only to have either people ignorant of the rule or intentionally breaking the rule.

The angler in question rented a boat slip the night before which was cleared with the TD the night before as well.He did not leave the boat ramp until 530. I spoke to him last night about it. He was totally within the rules and even went further beyond by additionally clarifying with the TD on Friday. As long as the advantage is offered for all I don't blame him for doing something that gave him a competitive advantage.

did he win??

no sir I also want to clear up did not leave the boat slip not boat ramp

Did he do well in the tourney?

Trailering is still a better option than the Buck Creek fiasco which was nuts. Still not sure how there wasn't an accident there.

I thought the Buck creek shoot out was a trailering deal

Every body had to stay in bouys till certain time, then it was a shotgun start lol.

What if you dump your boat before the official
time so you don't hold up people? That a voilation of the rules?

Neither have I. The 6th fish can be in the boat only as long as it takes to cull.

pretty ingenious.. rent slip night before to avoid launch and get to head out at 5:30am beating most everybody else.

OP: Bring me your torch, the tribe has spoken.

The service ramp at Ray Roberts marina can be used if you pay the $5 and get a pass. That's not a public ramp but that option is available to anyone that takes the proper steps to make it available to them. I would not consider that a rule violation if you get the proper pass to launch there. I would call it strategy as long as it's available to anyone. I don't know if the ramp in question here has that option or not.

That is actually old hwy 131! You can see it all the way thru grandpappy! People have launched there for years but it very shallow but people do it!

I bet there will be lots of boat slips rented next year if it's trailer...

How big was the fish anyways? I seen some guys during practice Friday back there in a legend sitting on one and one guy was in the boat and the other was on the bank standing on this tall concrete pipe flipping at a fish

If you got to get out of the boat to get a sight fish to bite, you're not good enough to be fishing for her...

Has anyone talked to the alleged violator? Was he familiar with Grandpappys? Did he launch there Friday to pre fish? When you drive into Grandpappys it is a hilly winding road that splits. If you take the split to the left it goes to the public ramp. If you go right the only ramp you see is the service ramp. Maybe he cheated, maybe he was lost. So far he hasnt had a say in this. For me it is whining to the choir. We have no way of knowing if he intentionally violated the rules or made a mistake.

Barrett already put what happened. Guy put his boat in a slip overnight. No rules broken. Another case of Whining without the facts. DQ the protester!

He DQed himself. Remember. He's never fishing that stuff again.

I have a slip in Little Mineral, any of you guys need a place to park your boat for a big tourney just holler.

I don't care what time you got up, if you left the ramp before 5:30 then you broke the rules. And also I wasn't throwing a hissy fit, I admit I should've had a better plan than I did. You are the one being childish by being negative about my post to start with. I had a bad experience and wanted to share it.

The boat I was originally talking about is not the boat that was kept in a slip all night. The boat I was talking about put in on the device ramp and then parked his truck and trailer at public boat ramp. If the guy Ok'ed with the TD then fine but he wasn't the one I was referring too. So if you don't know the whole story then why comment?

yes sir there will be, and if would've been made known that this was even an option I would've done it myself.

Since you were vague in your original story and didn't list any details, it left people to only guess at who you were talking about. Had you called out a name or at least some information about the boat and/or truck then maybe people wouldn't assume they know who you're talking about.

I agree Barett, but I'm sure that most of the anglers didn't know this was an option. The angler that rented the slip didn't nothing wrong because he Ok'ed with the TD. My question is why wasn't it brought to everyone's attention during registration? I was told to launch at a public boat ramp at 5:30.

Kinda like Tommy Biffle winning on Fort Gibson several years ago. He asked the TD and was told he could fish inside a buoy line. He won the tournament and a bunch of other anglers were pizzed. They could have done the same thing, had they first checked with the TD (Chris Bowes). Personally, once a person inquires to the TD about an obscure "gray area", the TD should be required to notify the field of same. Unfortunately, that never happened in the case of Biffle nor the TTT trailering event.

I understand that but I isn't want to throw names around until I heard from the TD. I was just sharing an experience on a forum in which I thought was ok.

It is "ok" to share.....just be ready for people to call it like they see it.

did they catch it?

You did it right... no need in coming on here and posting names on this situation. You did the right thing by reporting it to the TD, and thanks for sharing your experience here on the TFF. Also, IMO, you sir have been quite mild manned despite some folks best attempts to turn this around on you.

Did you hear Sony is leaving General Hospital!

This is horrible news!!!