Why is it so hard to sell a boat certificate?

I know two guys in the last year that have won a certificate for a new Legend and neither of them sold as quick as I thought. Matter of fact, one is still for sale.

What am I missing here? If a guy was gonna order a new Legend, why would he NOT want to buy a discounted certificate?

They want too much. We sold ours in 2 days. I think I saw a certificate in the trading section that was a legend on a single axle trailer for 35 plus.

+1

Most try to get what you would pay at a dealer. They forgot that they won the boat for a small entry fee and wants top dollar not going to happen. Plus on most it's a plain Jane boat with no upgrades.

Exactly what I have found to be the case.Even most prostaffer and demo boats are priced to high IMHO.I see some adds where a guy says he really needs to sell fast and then prices his boat at the top end of retail.If you want to sell a boat fast you should try starting a little towards the middle of the retail price range at least.

Exactly -> price.

If the boat is supposedly a $45k dollar boat how much is it really worth? What is middle of the road price on a brand new boat?

Lots of people kick the tires on boats....they all "want" one, but momma won't let them get a loan from the bank.

What is a fair price on a certificate boat?

Ours was "valued" at 30K we sold it in two days for 24. We would have probably taken 20 if memory serves me right.

Can you finance a certificate? I think that's a problem too, easier to finance a boat than the certificate. Price is normally the issue too.

My guess it most folks have to finance their new boats. Is it an easy process to get financing using a cert?

Think about it like a vehicle. The second it leaves the lot it depreciates at least 20%. 80% of the retail price would be a good baseline. Less if it is an absolute base model.

I am in the market for a boat right now.But I am not paying top dollar. There are too many boats for sale and more coming every day.I would say you sold yours for about the right amount, 20% off.

The certificate that I know quite a bit about is valued at $45k according to Legend. I understand that's MSRP. Lets just say that same boat can actually be bought for $35k from a dealer. Why wouldn't you wanna buy the certificate for $34k and save $1k.

How does the certificate work for an upgrade? Reckon they give you the full $45k credit towards the larger boat?

Because 1000 dollars off is not worth the pain of going through the process.

but if you could save 7-8k on a certificate and use the certificate to upgrade you would still be saving 7-8k

But you would need to buy one for 28k or so to do this

I just called Legend for grins. They told me they would allow you to upgrade to a 211 with the standard equipment (listed HERE) for $22k. If you could buy the certificate for $30k and put $22k with it, it sounds like you'd be getting a heck of a deal.

That as well as this >>> good info for anyone thinking of purchasing a prize boat, http://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbt...oat#Post9282638

The banks will not finance on a certificate. They need a hull identification number to finance. You almost have to find someone with cash.

Look at it realistically.... if you were in the market, is that a deal you would jump on... Pretty sure you, if being honest, would want to get it for less. When you consider that the investment was from $100 - $300, even taking $20k for it would be a hell of a return on that investment.

Just my .02 worth

Y'all crack me up talking about how much entry fee and return on investment. This has nothing to do with that. Bill Gayes started Microsoft in his garage. His rent was zero and his electric bill was $27. So he should sell Microsoft for $25k cuz it's a fair return on his investment? (The part about Bill Gates was made up!)

Why would someone take $20k for it when they could possibly get $30k?

Back on track now....y'all have a valid point about financing. It pretty much as to be a cash buyer, someone with very strong credit or someone with alternative collateral.

I guess, as always, ca$h is king! Winning a boat only creates a little more headache.

Personally, I don't think a lot of people understand the process of using a certificate so they just pass. To anyone that does not fish tournaments, a boat certificate is a foreign object they have no idea what to do with. So a large percentage of the buyers don't even consider buying one.

there is too many good deals that that you can sign an ride. on a certificate when someone buys one of them they are at the mercy of the manufacturer when the boat comes, an like another guy said it has to be a cash buyer because financing folks run backwards when there is no titles or mso ,s. I would like to see a guy that pays msrp for a boat.

It's worth as much as someone will pay you for it

This is the bottom line here.

They might be cracking you up but they are telling you the reason....they are priced too high. If its a great deal it sells fast. If not then it will be harder to find a buyer.

My number one reason is they are baseline boats and they are trying to get dealer prices. You bring that certificate and your going to pay msrp on it which will kill you on upgrades and such. Why not just go to the dealer and get the same boat with a few upgrades that's been there a while at the same price as the cert. Another point is there's no hiding the fact that you only paid a few hundred for the boat and people want a better deal because of that. I've heard of them being sold right after weigh in because the guys put a good price on them. So bottom line is price

I think if I won a certificate. I would go ahead and get the boat. Then sell the boat. Seems to me that woudl be much easier.

That is not much of a discount on what you can buy a decently loaded 211 for from a dealer. the certificate is a pain, then you must wait on the boat ect. I for one would not want one if I was not saving a substantial amount of money and a few grand aint going to cut it

Bingo, we have a winner! If you want to sell it bad enough, the price will be lowered to what the market will bear.

they aren't as shiny

Then you have to pay sales tax on the boat, that's why people try to dump it prior to. Otherwise totally agree.

I know at least with the Ranger certificates that the dealer makes no money if you get exactly what the cert says. If you want to use it and get upgrades like bigger engine or larger hull, the cost to upgrade is very inflated.

They don't want or can't pay for the sales tax, which unfortunately with a prize boat is MSRP, ouch.

I feel your pain, I won a Legend and it took awhile to sell. Your best bet is to get with a Legend dealer and work with them to sell it. Two things make it hard, people want everything for free and boat brand! Good luck with the sale, your customer is out there you just have to find them.

I'm sure the #1 reason is the financing issue. Who pays cash for a new boat? Most people who have the financial restraint to save up enough cash for a new boat have the good sense not to buy a new boat.

And how would the negotiation process work with a cert? Let's say you buy the cert for $30k. Then you want to upgrade electronics, trolling motor, add power poles, bigger motor, etc. and the dealer can charge you whatever they want because they know you're going to buy a Legend because you have the cert. So your savings go out the window.

Too many variables to supposedly save a few grand. It would have to be in the 30%-40% range for me to think about it.

A lot of people pay cash for boats. Believe it or not but luxury platforms like the Skeeter FX was designed with the guys in mind that could stroke a check. You would be surprised out how many guys pay cash for their boats.

Im not one of them. LOL

Happy for the ones that can.

We won a boat a few years ago, ( in a drawing, God knows we could not win one fishing ) anyway we had a hard time selling that boat, ended up selling for 30 % off of what one from a dealer would have cost, was not a certificate boat but still a pain to get rid of.

Like most have said price is #1 factor a couple of others that come into play are lack of vision and time. Most people can visualize a brand new boat right in front of them but not a piece of paper. It's the shine that attracts us to that new boat. Another factor is the length of time you have to wait on a build if that's the route you go.

There's some nice advantages to a certificate though if you're in the market and it's purchased right.

This. We sold ours in 2 days also. But took 10K less than the face value but it was for good old green backs. Almost everyone I have seen for sale from winners has been within 2K to 5K of the face value. Buyers figure you won it so they are not willing to pay you as much.
Our thinking was, 30K for a $250 entry fee. Pretty good deal for us.

This is the exact boat we sold for 30K. Yes they give the buyer full credit towards a boat but they also charge full retail for the price difference of the up grade.

I have a certificate from a tourney recently. Let me give you my opinion why it's challenging...

After speaking to a reputable dealer who I trust, I know that the exact boat that the certificate is for would normally sell for $41,900 out the door if you were to walk in off the street to buy this particular boat in Texas.

More than half the dealers I called don't even want to make me an offer (because they don't get the normal dealer discounts). I had one dealer offer me $15,000 for this cert! And to further paint the winner of the cert into a corner, I am NOT allowed to sell the cert to an individual. I can only sell it to a dealer, or take physical possession of a boat. Those are the only two options.

So am I supposed to take $15,000 on a boat that normally sells for $41,900 just because I only payed a $1500 entry? I think not. And do you know what I'm going to get 1099'd for? Full msrp which is $51,250 and I will have to show that as income on my taxes.

The best scenario for myself is to find someone who is about to buy this particular boat. If he and I find each other, we will be able to go to a dealer and it will save him about $1000 of the purchase and will give me a more fair value. Oh yeah, they give me 3 months to do all this. Not trying to be sour grapes, I'm thankful for the win and prize but there should be a more fair way.

Couldn't you just use the cert to get a boat. Your paying the taxes no matter what so just get the boat and then sale it. Put a $35k price tag on it and it will be gone in a few days if its a decent boat. I know your paying taxes on the full amount but if your claiming it as income, you can write off enough to offset it. Plenty of expenses in fishing!

I could indeed take it and resell on my own, that is an option.

[quote=JFB]I have a certificate from a tourney recently. Let me give you my opinion why it's challenging...

After speaking to a reputable dealer who I trust, I know that the exact boat that the certificate is for would normally sell for $41,900 out the door if you were to walk in off the street to buy this particular boat in Texas.

More than half the dealers I called don't even want to make me an offer (because they don't get the normal dealer discounts). I had one dealer offer me $15,000 for this cert! And to further paint the winner of the cert into a corner, I am NOT allowed to sell the cert to an individual. I can only sell it to a dealer, or take physical possession of a boat. Those are the only two options.

So am I supposed to take $15,000 on a boat that normally sells for $41,900 just because I only payed a $1500 entry? I think not. And do you know what I'm going to get 1099'd for? Full msrp which is $51,250 and I will have to show that as income on my taxes.

The best scenario for myself is to find someone who is about to buy this particular boat. If he and I find each other, we will be able to go to a dealer and it will save him about $1000 of the purchase and will give me a more fair value. Oh yeah, they give me 3 months to do all this. Not trying to be sour grapes, I'm thankful for the win and prize but there should be a more fair way.


Are you contractually obligated to accept a certificate if you win one in a tournament? Sounds like a major pain in the backside.

When I am looking for a boat in 2 years, I would consider buying a certificate but here is my thinking. Sorry if this offends anyone. Also Legend currently sits in the top 3 that I am considering.
1. If I get to build the boat I want through the certificate I am going to use this option
2. I don't want some stripped down model the company is offering and claiming "manufacturer's costs" on for accounting write-offs as advertising
3. I need to understand the upgrade costs to different models and then all of the options that I want. This is going to take awhile. I may or may not use this option as a bargaining tool to get a better deal on a boat I am currently working with a dealer on.
4. While all of this is going on, I am scouring the internet and other dealerships looking at what is out there on the used market to see if there are dollars to be saved there.
5. I disagree that paying $30k for a certificate and then another $22k to get into a base model 211 is a good deal. There are alot of 1-3 year Legends for sale right now, the Internet sites are full of them, if anything there are not alot of used Legends priced at $27-35k.

These are only my thoughts, take them for what they are and yes I will be paying cash on my next (and last) boat. Depending on how long the build time is on the boat I don't see alot of guys forking over $30k for the certificate and then waiting til the boat is complete to finance the rest, not sure alot of guys have that type of cash.

So if Im reading all this correctly the original owner of the certificate (if he orders the boat) has to pay sales tax plus income tax on the boat?

No. You would only be required to pay sales tax on upgrades. Being that Legend is based in Arkansas, it would your sole responsibility to pay the taxes on that.

It's been a few years since I dealt with the tax code and things do change.

But when I was dealing with it you would pay income tax on the MSRP or the actual value of the product in the market. Of course you must provide valid proof of actual value in if it is less than MSRP. It must be written proof, not just a dealer told you that was what he would charge you for the product. And it must be based on the dealer's actual sales of the product, not just what he is willing to tell you he would charge you.

One proof would be what you sold the product to an unrelated third party. So if the MSRP was $45,000 and you sold the product for $35,000 you would pay the tax based on the $35,000.

Another type of proof would be advertised sales price of the product in your area. Or proof of actual sales of the product in your area.

As I stated, I am outdated and tax laws do change. I suggest you talk to a CPA who specializes in taxes about this before you make a decision.

Also the manufacturer does not get to deduct the MSRP of the product from it's taxes. Nor can they deduct any profits that would have resulted from selling the product. They are restricted to deducting their actual costs of donated products, whether they buy it to sell or build it themselves.

However they do receive great advertising donating the product when it bears their name. This is why so many companies prefer to make in-kind donations of their products instead of cash donations.

But in instances such as this it is best to consult a CPA who specializes in Federal Income Tax before paying any taxes on the product or making any decisions based on what the taxes would be.

Question, does the seller still pay tax on the sale of the certificate?

If you sell it the same year as you win it, you pay taxes on the lesser of the sales price or the MSRP.

If you don't sell it the same year, you will pay taxes based on MSRP or fair market value (if you can prove that). Then if you sell it the following year, you do not pay taxes on it.

I don't know what happened. My last question got lost in the text of another post.

Are you contractually obligated to accept a certificate for a boat if you win one in a tournament? I guess when you enter a tournament, you have to sign some sort of entry form. Seems like they are more trouble than anything else.

Are you asking if you can refuse the certificate?

Even with the headache and taxes you are going to end up way ahead.