Goodbye flurocarbon

Fished this morning using Seaguar invis, last week tried red label with one break off.. Today had two break offs and it was not on a big fish in cover or anything. Yes, I know how to tie a knot and checked the line for bad spots. Back to all Big Game for me.

You are doing something wrong becasue I don't have this problem.

I will buy all of your invis-x if it's for sale

I have trouble trying to break it when I am hung up.

on a shakey head, what lb do you guys throw? Maybe Im going too light?

I know of a guy that had same issues. I can't break floro when I need too!!!

I have started using flouro this year, Seguar red label 15#, and I can't get that stuff to break off.

15lb red label, I've caught a few 9's and a 10 with it and never had problems

anytime you have issues with more than one spool of line it is ALWAYS user error. More than likely you are not tying a good enough knot. While your not may be a regular knot for line, you may not be cinching it slow enough or wet enough. One must be very careful on flouro knots.
Just yesterday I got in a hurry at home and quickly tied a frog on red label 20lb so I could go cast in my pond a few times. I had one around 6lbs hit it and set the hook. Before I even had lots of pressure on it my knot broke, why? Cinched it fast with no moisture. Same knot I always use with no fail, just didnt take my time.
IMO you are doing yourself a BIG injustice by not taking the time to learn how to use flouro. I was a slow convert to it, but now have it on 90% of my rods. It has increased my catch rate by at least 40%

used 6 lb. and had a lot of breakage with it. Went up to 8 and haven't had the same problems.

Well I used ten pound today, had enough spit on the knot to sink the boat. Both fish were breaks right after hook set. Line did not show the curled end like when a knot comes undone.

It depends on the bait and hook you are using.

Flouro will not curl when the knot breaks most of the time. WHat happens is the heat produced from the friction of the knot causes the line to become weak
What knot are you using? you may have said I didnt see

Polomar

On another note, the p-line cxx I have on my worma nd jig rods is awesome. I think I could use it as a anchor line.

What hook and bait are you using?

I had problems with a Polomar on floro. Had to change knots several times before I found one I liked to tie and worked. Can't remember the name of the knot I settled on.

Palomar is NOT a good knot for flouro (even though I use it LOL). You must be VERY careful and slow to cinch up.

Been using owner shakey heads, baits change but trick worm alot

Somethings up? Who knows just go buy another spool.

Yeah, I thought maybe I got a bad spool, it would be my luck. Going to get some more and give it a try. If it works so well for others I cant/shouldnt be so quick to disregaurd it . Going to the vine in the morning I will let you know.

Try the San Diego Jam knot.

The Berkley Braid knot is what I use for floro, braid and mono. Saw it on Knot Wars a couple years ago. The Knot Wars droid ap says it's over 19lbs (on 20 lb line) for all three line types. It's worked great for me.

Trilene knot.

Been playing with the snell n the flouro seems to be pretty strong so far. Definetely an increased hook up ratio too.

I did too so I changed knots and had not had any problems. Chang your knot

I'll check it out!

I had this problem until I changed to the San Diego Jam Knot

No Palomar. That Double San Diego Jam is the macdaddy of fluoro knots from my experience

I use the Palomar for Trilene 100% flouro and I've been amazed what the line goes through before it breaks. I've had it break at the hook but only after I've caught numerous fish on it and forgot to retie it.

The problem I have is the line breaking in a backlash, undo the backlash a I have a extra end in my line. Only use Mono and Braid now. Don't like Floro, not tough enough for me.

Palomar is a horrible knot for flouro, as it bends the line creating a weak spot. I use a double clinch and have had a grand total of one break off which was totally my fault. ( cut the tag to short, and knew it when I did it but didn't re-tie)

15lb red label, I've caught a few 9's and a 10 with it and never had problems [/quote]

I'm sorry I'm confused here. Your sig says PB 9.4 at O.H Ivie. How could you claim to catch a 10 if your PB ( personal best ) is a 9.4?

You know how to tie knots that work well for mono....but how about the knots best for fluoro? There's a difference.


But at the end of all the talk, you have to do what feels right.

To each their own.

I love InvizX, and have no use for Big Game other than as backing.

YMMV,
TFP

You need to tie the chili whopper knot.

Big Game is the toughest, cheapest, and most coil prone line I've ever wasted good money on!

Palomar plus fluoro plus hard hook set spells potential heartbreak.
Having said that it's a good line type but I like double improved clinch. I still like big game for shock absorbing short range stuff.
Your gonna hear all kinds of opinions and some really good fishermen use Palomar and fluoro all the time. Do what your experience tells you is best .

It ain't the knot.

Are you sure about that???

ive fished with the seaguar red label and love it. never had any problems dont think i ever had it break on hook set but with the trilene flouro i had sum break offs on hook sets and wont use it again

Double uni knot on flouro tied correctly will be the end of all your problems , I had the same issue for months , tying a Palomar on Seaguar . Grab some invisx tie a double uni and I promise you will not have anymore issues

If you insist on using a palomar make sure your loops didn't cross at any point during the tying of the knot. It can cut into itself and cause breakage...try a san diego jam or eugene bend knot. The theory is that those 2 knots just get tighter when pressure is applied whereas the palomar actually cuts into itself( if not tied properly)...don't be so quick to swear off flouro..the pros fer outweigh the cons IMO.

I had the same problems the first time I tried fluorocarbon...hated the stuff.Tried it again this spring on a c-rig after learning a few new knots.I have to say it made fishing fun again.I use it now on all my soft plastics and crank baits.Learn the double San Diego knot and the Red Philips knot.Also soften up on your hook sets as fluoro won't take a big hit like BigGame.

Ya know, I've just used XPS Fluro from Bass Pro and never even tried anything else.

I'm sorry I'm confused here. Your sig says PB 9.4 at O.H Ivie. How could you claim to catch a 10 if your PB ( personal best ) is a 9.4?
[/quote]

Good Question!

Big Game has a lot more stretch, are you sure that you don't just need to ease up on the drag to compensate for the low stretch that flouro has?

According to this article ALL flourocarbon stretches 28-38% so that kills the no stretch argument with flourocarbon.

http://www.bassfishingandcatching.com/fluorocarbon-fishing-line.html

+1

Well,the author got it wrong.

Yall are a trip

I'm sorry I'm confused here. Your sig says PB 9.4 at O.H Ivie. How could you claim to catch a 10 if your PB ( personal best ) is a 9.4?
[/quote]

Kinda thinking the same thing!

Sorry, but the article is just plain wrong. Sunline Shooter has a very low level of stretch, well under 10%.


TFP

So according to the experts on the TFF. Flourocarbon does not stretch as much as mono. So I guess this test done by tackle tour is also wrong in that the baseline Trilene XL has 9.4% stretch and some flourocarbon lines have up to 11.5% stretch.

Yep I guess they are wrong also.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewfluorocarbon2.html

I'll see Brandon's offer and throw in 2 spools of your choice of mono.

Seaguar Invisx is horrible, you need to sell it all to me.

All i can tell you is i use flouro even dropping grass and have had a history of smashing rods on hooksets, until i got some tougher rods. I don't back my drag or hookset down. You tie the right knot on red label and it won't matter it is done and there. I use the san diego jam knot and a snell. It is more sensitive due to the density of the line.

As for the stretch comparison were they comparing same weight class lines or comparing on diameter. And it seems like the heavier line stretches less.

This article is something else.

If I read this right, he says I can take a 10' long piece of Seaguar Invisx 20lb Fluoro and should be able to stretch it 3' or so?

I'm sorry I'm confused here. Your sig says PB 9.4 at O.H Ivie. How could you claim to catch a 10 if your PB ( personal best ) is a 9.4?
[/quote]

I'm lazy and haven't messed with my sig til today?



Yes I'm sure I throw 1/4oz football shakey heads on 15lb red label and have never had the line break at the knot or otherwise

I guess you need to hook some fish and get that pesky stretch out first. I keep mine hooked up so i have lil stretch.

My understanding is that Fluoro STAYS stretched , not recovering as much as mono from stretching, so after use the net stretch is less with Fluoro, although not significant....Seems that Fluoro's primary advantages are the sinking effect and better sensitivity allowing for increased bite detection (not less stretch)......Soooooo, if you prefer fluoro over mono/copoly , and, your results and confidence support your contentions, be happy......The handling characteristics of fluoro iritate me, so I use copoly......

I'm really confused now. I've used 20lb InvisX for 3 or 4 years now and have caught an 8 that circled a stump, I leaned on her til was able to get the boat to her. Landed her and line was in good shape, I've hung on stump and rock and had to use the boat to break it. I realy don't know about stretch but feel it's less than the copoly (suffix superior) I once used. I tie an improved clinch and have never had a problem(you must wet the line real well before you tighten it down). I'm saying there is some other problem beside the InvisX.

What rod/drag setting are you using?

When and where is the line breaking? There are other reasons line can break, like snapping the line on hook set, too light of line for the rod action and hookset power. Also does the eye of the shakey head have paint chipping off, could be cutting into your knot.

FZ1,understands that reading comprehension has dropped,recently,but read the Sequel,on TT,come back,and,if you still don't know what you read,FZ1 will explain it to you.

bought one spool , tried it didnt like it , didnt have time to study all the varous knots , stretch , etc etc..
threw it away.

Yes FZ1 Please explain it to me. Because the way I see it and the ones that have run the tests is that flouro. DOES stretch. Some more others less than Mono. 6.3% stretch to 9.4% stretch is minimal difference. To say that there is NO stretch in Flouro. would be incorrect. It would also be incorrect to say that ALL Mono stretches more than Flouro. which I believe is the common argument.

So explain it to me Mr. Genius FZ1 since you are smarter than everyone else! And please back it up with data to prove your point and not just an opinion but facts that support your opinion.

No,I ain't smarter than everyone,else. I'm just smarter than you. If you look at the Sequel stretch tests you can see that the test mono stretches about 10%,when,wet. Some of the FCs don't stretch AT ALL when wet! Now,go back to the Sequel test,and you can see why FZ1 prefers P Line 100%. BTW,Academy just started carrying the P line 100% Flurocarbon.

Wow, you guys are quick to defend fluro. A few years ago I broke several fish off that I knew were good fish and would'a made a difference in the bag weight. So I gathered up all my fluro, put in on eBay and sold it. Went back to mono and what I knew worked and simplified for a year. I am now back in the fluro game and haven't broke a fish off yet, crossing fingers.

Perhaps I had a bad spool or a bad run or line, whatever it was I didn't want to add to the confusion.

Please as I said before Mr. Smarter than me. LIST THE ONES THAT HAVE ZERO STRETCH when wet!!! Because I double checked and EVERY SINGLE FC listed on the chart shows that it does STRETCH when WET and DRY.


GOOD for you you did not refer to yourself in the 3rd person in this thread. Good to wee that you are continuing your education since this is basic english grammar and it is taught in elementary school.

Ok, well glad I finally started a thread that gets more than two responses. Lets all chill its just line, no reason to argue. On another note, went and got another spool of line. I caught a couple fish on it this morning, tied the double San Diego knot without problem. Im not sold on it yet, but if helps me catch more fish Im gonna keep trying.

looks like the data on this line doesnt stretch much...

When correcting grammar, please use proper grammar and sentence structure.

BURRRRRRRRN!

Now i ain't sayin it be wrong but kindly splain too me hows come you got soo many r in burn. Is that some dang euro spelin? Cause chet don't like no euro nothin. But he do love him some flurocabin.

*laughing at Chet*

I did read the studies, but, perhaps, I read them too quickly. If the fc doesn't return to its initial state after stretching, is the line "strength" compromised?

manchu prefers gamma edge cuz i've pulled stumps with it. don't give up on flouro. it'll increase your catch rate.

i have tried every brand floro with every knot known to man...and it still sucks.......i like the 99 cent omniflex from wal-mart with a shoe string knot...

Bar graphs can be quite confusing,to some,so,I'll make it real easy for you. The FCs,in the Sequel test,that have NO stretch,before,or after,soaking,and LESS stretch than the mono are:Maxima,P Line Halo,P Line 100%,Sunline Shooter,Toray Super Hard,Triple Fish FC. The Mono had about 10% stretch when wet. Twirling my 6 gun and holstering it,Quigley,style.

i had the same problem with fluoro ...i went back to mono and no more broken knots...

Y'all need to tie better knots or something...flouro is the shizznittlebittlebingbang

Another thought,When you drop your rod tip just before you set the hook then set the hook the friction on the line at the rod tip could be the same as pulling a knot down dry on flo.The longer the rod the more stress.Crazy but a thought.

FZ1,
All the products tested stretched. The line that stretched the least was Sunline Shooter FC at 6.3%. Perhaps I have misunderstood you, but you seem to be saying that some of the lines had zero stretch. Some had no additional stretch after soaking, but they all stretched.

I also found it interesting that the brand that seems to have the most popularity on TFF actually stretches more than mono. I don't know what that means other than it is interesting.

how much stretch does power pro braid have ?????

Braid has no stretch..mono has the most..and flouro is somewhere in the middle..no fancy tests here aside from me guaging how much my ribs hurt after a hookset with the previously mentioned lines.

I wonder if bobby murray and bill dance had this arguement..

Right. I should have said,in excess,over the baseline stretch. As I recall,the shooter was a 32 diameter and the p line was a 30 diameter.

I have been using hydrocarbon all year for the first time. I had trouble with the palomar breaking on hook sets. I believe it stretches less than monofiliment so its more sensitive. I began using the San Diego jam knot, and haven't had one break. I tried the double S. D. jam and the knot was as big as my jig. I decided the plain old jam was enough.

Hey Quigley I think you need to read a little closer.

This is from the paragraph right above the chart.

In short, when we conducted our initial tensile tests, we noted all our test subjects experienced a degree of stretch, wet or dry, and all were comparable to our Trilene XL.

The first colum on the graph shows that there is strech in every single one of the lines tested. There are no Zero's there. Meaning there is some stretch in ALL the FC lines tested, from 6.3% up to a high of 13% when dry.

So I realize like you stated that bar graphs can be quite confusing so let me help you since you obviously rode the short bus to school a Zero looks like this " 0 "

All the lines you listed have the same stretch dry as when wet. But they DO stretch. That is what that number represents is the amount represented as a percentage that they stretch.

Get yourself a bandaid for that gunshot wound to your head there
Quigley, you don't have enough brains that you can afford to loose any.

Wtf is hydrocarbon!?

See my post 536,above.

Dang you caught yourself speaking out of your butt. How did those words taste? Because Zero stretch as you stated before and you told me you were going to explain, is way different than baseline stretch as you have in your last statement.

Not,really. Baseline stretch is what you get out of the box. What is important for bass fishermen to know is that mono tends to have more stretch than some FCs out of the box,and that monos tend to stretch more than some FCs when wet. I listed the FCs that performed best,exhibiting no stretch,when wet,vs. mono for the consideration of the guys on this thread,so they don't have to read the article. It is a very interesting article for those that wish to read it.

I must be a magician because I can count on one hand how many times I've had a palomar knot break on InvizX in several years of use... I think some folks need to learn how to use that little knob on the side of the reel that lets line slip out a bit when they try to jerk a 2 lb. fish to the next county. You can crank it down on mono but you really need to allow a little slip with fluoro and braids.

hydrocarbon is what we burn in our engines ....its also used to make plastic and everything we use daily even fishing line.

Right. Look at the P Line. It performed very well with only a .30 mm diameter vs. the Shooter which was a larger .32mm diameter line.

I believe that means nobody really has a clue what their talking about... just switched to brand X flouro because someone said it was good or some pro said you cant catch em without this brand. Flouro is more expensive so its better... right?

No,it just means that the ones using that other brand don't know. Lol. Net,net,net,the P line 100% is the best,for me,anyway. It's also one of the less expensive FCs at about $22 bucks for 250 yards at Academy. But,be forewarned,it does have a little more memory than some of the FCs as a result of it's strengh and abrasion resistance.

Two words, Berkely Vanish

Two bad words.

+1

x10000000

Fluoro has better sensitivity due to its density not because of less stretch . Fluoro when stretched doesn't rebound like nylon .
Fluoro and mono both generally stretch more than braid.
At least that is my understanding but I'm no chemist.

I think the way you tighten the Palomar is important. I am careful to tighten the knot by pulling,mostly,on the tag end so I don't damage the standing line. .02.

very bad words..

+3

Flouro is terrible about snapping with any imperfection. I went to copoly with far less of a problem.

Folks that haven't snapped flouro a lot haven't fished it much.

yeah, only 20 years worth with no problems until now.

i don't have any confidence in mono

Going to the ville this evening , hope it holds up like it did this morning. I bought the p-line yesterday, it seems to be ok for now.

Berkley Vanish is junk-bought a spool and ended up using it for backing.

I've been told they have improved it from the original but I'll never go there again.

Riding Backwards,
Your signature has me curious. fireman?

its just a joke with my cop buddies, firefighters and cops bust on eachother all the time. They are some of my best friends though.

I assumed it was tongue-in-cheek. Thank you for your service. Not a job I want--either one of them.

Yes sir, IMO I have the best job in the world.

I have fished flouro around 60 days (8+ hr. days, mostly tournament days) this year and I have had it break 3 times unexpectedly (not user error/ breaking off a hung lure) and that was caused by a bad spool of line. So I don't really agree with your last statement about not breaking it because you haven't fished it much.

Maybe the folks snapping Fluro haven't tied many knots. Lol

When i first started using floro i hated it, broke it constantly when setting the hooks on fish ect and went back to mono on my t-rig.

I eventually gave it another try and i learned that, like most said here. You have to be more careful with flouro than mono, you have to pay attention to line nicks more, pay more attention to how the knot draws down etc.

I like it alot , now that I know how i have to treat it.

If you don't want to take the extra time to make sure your knot are in good shape when cinched, and pay attention to knick in line from brushing against structure, than mono is probably a better choice for some.

Whatever the reason Im gonna give it a few more shots. My knots are tied fine, maybe just need a different one. Anyway, lake change, partner wants to go the the vine. Im in a black and silver champ, come over and say hello if your out. Unless I just broke off on fluro again and my rod is broke in half, just keep going. Tight lines guys.

And if your prone to profesional overspin or what ever you call a backlash fluro may not be for you. I was born thumb challenged and used to have them alot. When you have one with fluro you must undo it with a lot of caution. Any kink in fluro will eventually break. And the cast where your bait lands 20 yards up on the bank can be a little disheartning. The good part of this is that I've been forced to learn how to use my thumb. And now a spool of fluro will last along time and is tougher than cobb when used correctly.

Chet, are those big girls in your signature "Benbrook fatties"?

Sad to say no, one Fork and two Falcon.

It does seem to be easily damaged by backlashes. I use FC for Pitching,I use backing,and I change out the FC every 3 trips,or so. I use copolymer for casting crankbaits and Braid for Frogs. I am very careful tying my Palomar knots.

I don't think that the Seguar is nearly as strong or abrasion resistant as P Line 100%. The P line has a little more memory than Seguar but the strength is worth the trade off,to me. Academy has 250 yard spools for $22. You might try it for Pitching presentations. I cast with Copolymer. Good luck.

One more thing about FC line.

If you backlash, and you don't get every single loop out of the reel, even the TINIEST of loops will cut your line on the next cast or 2. If you cast and hear that stripping noise of your line hitting a loop, you're done most of the time.

I've seen guys in my boat rare back and let a 1/2 spinnerbait rip, hear that noise, have time to turn and around and see that blade keep right on flying. The looks on their faces are priceless... "Junk a** fluorocarbon line"...

Don't know bout that man that red label is tough. Had a15 lb opp burry me in a brush pile(didn't know during fight of course) got it coming up and out after it hung in there a bit, then she burried hard back into it. Bout 5 mins back and forth. She came out finally. Roughed up about 5 ft of it which i stripped off but it held. That was 15 lb red label. The only heartbreak was that was during the mcbass and it wasn't the big green fishy i had thought she was.

For what its worth, here is my opinion on FC. I have only used Invisx and Trilene 100% FC.

It has allot of stretch. The test I used was not very scientific, I grabbed a piece about 3ft long, made a few wraps around each hand and pulled, I was shocked because the TFF gurus say it has no stretch, it stretches as bad as any line I have used.

It is not invisible in the water at all, I can see it, so I figure the fish can see it. I was also shocked because the TFF gurus said it is invisible under water.

It is hard to get a real good knot tied with it. This is a fact that can readily be seen by the number of posts on here that claim you have to tie knot x or knot xyz.

The TFF gurus say you have to adjust your hook set so you don't break the line. Why do I want to use a line that I have to adjust my hook set because the line is not tough enough to handle it.

It is no where near as abrasion resistant as the Mono I use.

The times I did use FC I have no idea if it got me more bites or not. I do know I went on a 3 tournament stretch breaking off fish in brush piles that I had been dragging the fish out of with mono.

The only advantage I can see to using FC is that it is more sensitive than mono, and evidently the COOL line to use.

Invisx has the most stretch of of any FC in the tackle tour test. Visability;Who knows. Just be careful and wet the knot you tie. P Line 100% is much more abrasion resistant/strong than invisx or Trilene. FZ1 doesn't adjust his hookset. I use FC because it's a better/stronger line,for Pitching,for me. I use copolymer for crankbaits and braid for frogs. You have to pick the right line for You,your presentations,and your equipment. That can be different for each angler.

I use invisx nd red lable, I prefer te red lable actually but can't always find it and get invisx instead.

Fish can see invix better than any other line i've ever used.

I see small bass and perch hitting the line in the water all the time.

It's not as tough as mono, it won't put up with as much abuse as mono and you have to be more careful when tying knots with it than mono.

But, I personally like the feel and the better cast-ability i seem to get from it.

For me, it's worth it for those two things to put up with the extra hassle of flouro.

Like i mentioned earlier, if you don't want to go through the extra care, mono is a better choice for some people.

It took me two different attempts to like flouro, I used to hate it,but now I know how o treat it, and I can see some advantages when using it for certain applications.

for what it's worth, i still use mono for heavy cover close quarters flipping and pitching with heavy jigs. but i flip and pitch t-rigs on flouro..

I'm totally cunfoosed now, when will this madness end?

Ironman65 says Ironman65 doesn't know.

O.K. Here's what to do. Put one type of line on 1 rig and the other type of line on an identical rig. Fish them,alternately, and notice the differences in the lines. Pick the one that best fits what you are doing.

Since fluoro came out I've snapped it one time and had the drag totally locked down. That break was on me. I love the sound of the drag ripping on a hook set when a big fish is on. The little ones it never does but when a hog grabs that bait and you set the hook. ZZZZIIIIPPPPPP You instantly know this is gonna be a picture fish.

Yankhardreelfast now has to Yanksoftreelmediocre so his FC doesn't break.

Man i don't know where yall get your line from. I use red label and set the hook like a beast. I DO NOT adjust hookset or drag. I have used a san diego jam knot for so long it is second nature. What aout alll the adjustments people had to make for braid??? Same deal adapt or get whooped. With braid you had to back down, drag, use a polymar instead of alot of twist knots, you need certain hooks with welded eyes, ect. Use each as it was intended and all is good. I smoked a guy 10 to one a couple of weekends ago and the only diff was line. Really how hard is it to use a dif knot and realistically you "should" use care when puling down any knot with any type of line. I have caught every fish of mine over 9 lbs except one on flourocarbon. That one was flipping and on braid. I have about 15+ over 9lbs including a 12.90 and a 10.25. So bad talk it all you want but i would be willing to wager most of the ones talkin bad about haven't used it enough for a true comparison. I have used it for going on 7 years i think, and i have mixed mono in from time to time for specifid applicatins such as topwater. I have only lost three i am certain were over 10 none of which broke me off. The only break offsi have are fromfrayed line from bad tungston or ot re tying after multiple fish which would be a similar issue with braid or mono.

As far as stretch goes: Mono is like a slinky (contracts back); FC is like a bendy straw (stays stretched out. FC is a very fussy line, but the right FC is almost invisible underwater. I only use it (FC) when I have to. Dale Hollow and other clear lakes that have a rep for bites being tough to come by is where I'll break (no pun intended) out the FC.

Kinda what I've been thinking while reading thru the opinions in this thread, too.

Anyone who knows me well and has fished with me will tell you the Fouz hookset is MAXI-overkill Works for me and I see no reason to change. I seldom ever lose fish I swing on but do have the "occasional " 2lb. flyer that requires a head fake.

My drags are hammered and never slip on the hookset. Unless I had loosened and forgotten to retighten doing maint.

Seguar InvizX, Sufix 832 and Maxima Ultragreen are my line choices. InvizX is on at least 60% of my reels as a general rule. Fluoro is more sensitive than mono, period. Mono excels in tpwtr, squarebills and buoyant swimbaits. Fluoro in deep cranking, spooning, and botton applications. Braid for mortal combat in all types of cover.